4-SUB 4732
Established Member
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- 7 Jan 2018
- Messages
- 2,150
Sham. Bolic.
The HST power car, 91 & DVT livery designs are trademarked so an agreement would have to be done with Virgin for their continued use. Seems unlikely...I suspect all that will happen is the Virgin logos will be replaced by LNER ones and the same livery kept as far as possible. Why change it if it isn't required? Livery is hardly the imperative at the moment.
There is no chance of that happening. I can't ever recall ever hearing of such a thing happening in the past at any franchise change or any other change of operator. As is being made very clear on multiple channels tickets booked for travel after the change remain valid.
But why bother with a new livery for a couple of years.
They should have gone for Edinburgh and South Eastern to keep the Scots happy.As much as I like the GNER connotation I think the name is poorly chosen. However unintentionally, it suggests a London orientation which is very unhelpful to a national line.
Not surprised that the franchise has crumbled again, although I am surprised that DfT are reinstating LNER and not GNER given the latter is an already respected brand amongst passengers, and has connotations to grandure and speed, which the former doesn't in my opinion. Plenty other things to worry about I guess.
LNER doesn't have connotations of grandeur and speed? Really? - 'Mallard', 'Flying Scotsman', etc., don't carry any weight?Not surprised that the franchise has crumbled again, although I am surprised that DfT are reinstating LNER and not GNER given the latter is an already respected brand amongst passengers, and has connotations to grandure and speed, which the former doesn't in my opinion. Plenty other things to worry about I guess.
So we now have LNER, GWR and Southern as brands....
Shame we recently waved bye bye to London Midland...
Not quite.It's in the franchise agreement that they return the trains in a generic livery.
On a slightly different note am I right in thinking that despite what the press is saying the franchise will not be in direct state control like with East Coast but rather in the hands of the Operator of Last Resort which is a consortium of Arup Group, Ernst & Young and SNC-Lavalin Rail & Transit.
As I mentioned above, it's more than just the logo which is trademarked (click Designs):Not quite.
It's in the franchise agreement that VTEC have to remove or cover any registered trademarks from all assets [1] or pay the successor franchise the cost of doing so. If the DfT thinks the branding is not "so distinctive or otherwise such that a Successor Operator could not reasonably be asked to use the relevant assets to which the Marks are applied", then it can stay.
So in that case, VTEC will need to remove (or pay for the removal) of; e.g. the Virgin Trains logo on First Class seats. But (looking at the LNER holding website) I expect the train livery will remain as-is - albeit with the removal of the Virgin Trains logo and replacement with an LNER logo.
[1] There is also the provision for the transfer of licenses.
Source: Intercity East Coast Franchise Agreement - Schedule 14.2
So we now have LNER, GWR and Southern as brands....
Shame we recently waved bye bye to London Midland...
Why would they want London Overground to run services when the mayor is a Labour politician.East Coast will be terminated 24th June, will become DOR run LNER from that date, essentially bringing forward the previously announced partnership from 2020 to 2018 with the merging of track and rail management phased in. Mayor of West Midlands will be a board advisor. Stagecoach and Virgin will keep their passports after independent review.
Great Northern being transferred to London Overground after end of TSGN being discussed with London mayor as well as moving Kings Cross services out of Great Northern.
Because maybe there are being grown ups about it.Why would they want London Overground to run services when the mayor is a Labour politician.
As I have just seen. I was playing reading catch up and I tend to reply as I read, as I can't remember it all otherwiseBecause maybe there are being grown ups about it.
Anyway there is a different thread for this.
It's in the franchise agreement that VTEC have to remove or cover any registered trademarks from all assets [1] or pay the successor franchise the cost of doing so. If the DfT thinks the branding is not "so distinctive or otherwise such that a Successor Operator could not reasonably be asked to use the relevant assets to which the Marks are applied", then it can stay.
[1] There is also the provision for the transfer of licenses.
Indeed, but as I mentioned, if the DfT is happy with the existing branding they won't require VTEC to remove it (or to pay for its removal). All they require is that VTEC arranges for an irrevocable licence allowing their successor(s) to use the trademarks.As I mentioned above, it's more than just the logo which is trademarked (click Designs):
https://euipo.europa.eu/eSearch/#details/owners/348245
Why is it a picture of a 395, etc etc
West Coast has lasted because the DfT made a mess of the award to First in 2012. Since then it's been a series of direct awards. It's interesting to speculate what might have happened to First if they had been able to go ahead with it; it was widely thought that they'd overbid.Quite extraordinary how turbulent the East Coast franchise has been, when you consider the longevity and financial success of the Great Western or West Coast franchises for the operators.
Yes please!
So is the first day of LNER going to be Monday the 25th June with VTEC ending on the 24th June, or will it be like other franchise changes with VTEC's last day being the 23rd June with LNER taking over as of the 24th June?
Anyhow no doubt history will repeat and all those planned enhancements (additional Harrogate services etc) will be quietly dropped
East Coast will be terminated 24th June, will become DOR run LNER from that date, essentially bringing forward the previously announced partnership from 2020 to 2018 with the merging of track and rail management phased in. Mayor of West Midlands will be a board advisor.
So, a good generic national name is needed.As much as I like the GNER connotation I think the name is poorly chosen. However unintentionally, it suggests a London orientation which is very unhelpful to a national line.
Actually, the whole charade just makes the DfT look good to the Treasury for a few years, by which time the DfT seniors will have moved on. And the operators, who always have these get-out clauses, will only tender on the assumption that they will be the operator until it becomes significantly not worthwhile to continue. This is why the premium payments always ramp up well into the future.DfT buys largely on price and there's always bidders who let the desire to run these franchises triumph over common sense, seemingly driven by ego. I would have hoped that by now DfT took a sensible attitude on undeliverable bids, which they have done on other franchises, but it seems if there's enough zeroes, they want to be heroes.
What left wing media???!!The left wing media