Thameslink Services/Timetable from May 20th 2018

[jon0844]

Surely this can be fixed. The production line must be capable of still building more coaches to extend to 12. Or will this cause massive issues with software etc.

I hope Siemens trains aren't as picky when it comes to modifications as Bombardier trains. I'm sure there's an option to build more carriages if needed, and possibly even entirely new trains. Certainly the coach numbering on a RLU suggests it could easily be converted to a FLU.

The trains are based on modern tech, unlike the Class 387s that are a weird hybrid of old and new, and still have ancient PC hardware to manage things. Plus they have buttons that keep falling off. (Mustn't forget to mention the buttons...)

 

[Domh245]

Surely this can be fixed. The production line must be capable of still building more coaches to extend to 12. Or will this cause massive issues with software etc.

The trains are supposed to be capable of being extended, as per the contract:

RLUs shall be capable of being extended to FLUs without altering the fundamental system architecture or making structural changes and without detriment to performance or reliability.

I would expect that unlike conventional contracts, the DfT can ask Siemens to lengthen the trains at any time it wishes, subject to cost.

 

[hwl]

Surely this can be fixed. The production line must be capable of still building more coaches to extend to 12. Or will this cause massive issues with software etc.

The option is in the contract, just needs some one to pay.

 

[Class465fan]

Just checked the departures on my phone and it's looks like thameslink has cancelled more of their brand new "sparkling thameslink" trains that are going to rainham or luton via Abbey wood. All going well isn't it?

 

[Failed Unit]

The option is in the contract, just needs some one to pay.

Where is that money tree again?

 

[jon0844]

Ask Jeremy Corbyn!

 

[Ianno87]

I picked this up at Cambridge, wondered why it had sat at Ashwell for quite so long. Thanks for the explanation!

I note this train also now calls at Watlington, with an announcement that passengers for there need to travel in the front four carriages. Shame they can't do the same for Waterbeach and Littleport and then we could have proper-length trains north of Cambridge. (I've been told elsewhere on this forum that this is because the back of the train will block the level crossing while stopped at the station. But why exactly is this a problem?)

Waterbeach is an Automatic Half Barrier crossing. Littleport is a barrow crossing to access the Up platform.

Amongst other things, stopping trains over the crossing for an extended period of a minute or two will encourage people to do silly things to beat the train (e.g running across in front or weaving the barriers), espcially as at Littleport where if you're not on the platform before an Up train arrives (as opposed to crossing behind it once it arrives)., then you'd have to miss the train as the stopped train blocks subsequent access to the platform.

 

[NorthKent1989]

Just checked the departures on my phone and it's looks like thameslink has cancelled more of their brand new "sparkling thameslink" trains that are going to rainham or luton via Abbey wood. All going well isn't it?

A few cancellations doesn't mean failure for Thameslink, give it a chance! It's in its second day in time you'll be grateful for this service it's a great link and the Woolwich line is very lucky to have it

 

[Class465fan]

A few cancellations doesn't mean failure for Thameslink, give it a chance! It's in its second day in time you'll be grateful for this service it's a great link and the Woolwich line is very lucky to have it

A few cancellations doesn't mean failure for Thameslink, give it a chance! It's in its second day in time you'll be grateful for this service it's a great link and the Woolwich line is very lucky to have it

There's nothing good about adding minor stops that other slower services call at anyways. Seriously, if people want to go to those minor stations it's not hard to get off and wait for a slower service that calls at all of those stations.

 

[NorthKent1989]

There's nothing good about adding minor stops that other slower services call at anyways. Seriously, if people want to go to those minor stations it's not hard to get off and wait for a slower service that calls at all of those stations.

Cannot argue with that logic I completely agree with you

Plumstead and Slade Green had 6tph off peak before, I don't see that as a bad service, it's better than what the Penge East line has, 4tph and nothing can't be done about bringing this up to 6tph.

I can understand the need to call at the Greenwich line stops, particularly Greenwich and Deptford, or else they'll fall back to 4tph

This whole debacle says one thing related to the North Kent line "If it ain't broke, why fix it!" All they've done is creat a worse service for Medway and to an extent Abbey Wood, Woolwich Arsenal and Charlton (stations that have earned 8tph) where as before you could get a seat because of the few stations called at, the Medway trains are now packed by the time we get to Dartford, there's barely any space for people to get on by the time Woolwich Arsenal is called at let alone Deptford or Greenwich.

It's only going to get worse

 

[MikeWM]

Waterbeach is an Automatic Half Barrier crossing. Littleport is a barrow crossing to access the Up platform.

Amongst other things, stopping trains over the crossing for an extended period of a minute or two will encourage people to do silly things to beat the train (e.g running across in front or weaving the barriers), espcially as at Littleport where if you're not on the platform before an Up train arrives (as opposed to crossing behind it once it arrives)., then you'd have to miss the train as the stopped train blocks subsequent access to the platform.

Yes, thanks for the explanation - I see why that's a problem at Littleport. Its quite some years since I've been there and for some reason I recalled it being similar to Waterbeach. Now I've looked it up - yes, perhaps not a good idea. I'm not sure it is as much of a problem at Waterbeach unless trains are going to be sitting there for an extended period of time - after all the barriers are already down for some fairly long period of time before the train arrives - but I guess it isn't ideal.

Ok, so I recall from the same discussion that the 'other' option - SDO on the back half of the train, rather than the front - is also ruled out for some reason on DOO trains. But I'm not at all convinced why - doesn't that makes situations such as what apparently happened as Ashwell last night easier to deal with rather than harder - the annoyed passengers will be in the same unit as the driver, so easier for the driver to reset passenger alarms, etc. Is there an equally good argument for not allowing this that I've overlooked?

 

[mirodo]

Ok, so I recall from the same discussion that the 'other' option - SDO on the back half of the train, rather than the front - is also ruled out for some reason on DOO trains. But I'm not at all convinced why - doesn't that makes situations such as what apparently happened as Ashwell last night easier to deal with rather than harder - the annoyed passengers will be in the same unit as the driver, so easier for the driver to reset passenger alarms, etc. Is there an equally good argument for not allowing this that I've overlooked?

Presumably because the portion of the train the driver is in being forward of the platform would mean the driver was unable to see any platform monitors?

 

[Domh245]

Presumably because the portion of the train the driver is in being forward of the platform would mean the driver was unable to see any platform monitors?

The 700s have got in cab monitors, they don't need platform based equipment to work. I suspect that the reason that they can't have front SDO is that if there is some issue with the doors or the driver otherwise needs to exit their cab, they can't (as easily) if it isn't platformed or opens onto a Tunnel Wall.

 

[Ianno87]

Yes, thanks for the explanation - I see why that's a problem at Littleport. Its quite some years since I've been there and for some reason I recalled it being similar to Waterbeach. Now I've looked it up - yes, perhaps not a good idea. I'm not sure it is as much of a problem at Waterbeach unless trains are going to be sitting there for an extended period of time - after all the barriers are already down for some fairly long period of time before the train arrives - but I guess it isn't ideal.

Ok, so I recall from the same discussion that the 'other' option - SDO on the back half of the train, rather than the front - is also ruled out for some reason on DOO trains. But I'm not at all convinced why - doesn't that makes situations such as what apparently happened as Ashwell last night easier to deal with rather than harder - the annoyed passengers will be in the same unit as the driver, so easier for the driver to reset passenger alarms, etc. Is there an equally good argument for not allowing this that I've overlooked?

Waterbeach is an AHB - so the barriers only come down about 25-30 seconds before. And being half-barriers, people are tempted to 'just nip across' to avoid risking getting 'trapped'. And of course forgetting it could be for a train coming the other way...

 

[talldave]

Just checked the departures on my phone and it's looks like thameslink has cancelled more of their brand new "sparkling thameslink" trains that are going to rainham or luton via Abbey wood. All going well isn't it?

Indeed. And even more curious that Thameslink's daily PPM figures are suddenly broken and unavailable!!!!

 

[ChiefPlanner]

A gentle off peak journey from St Albans (to Chelsea) , showed a pretty solid service - though noted one Rainham cape and 2 off the GN. Very slight blocking back on the approach to St Pancras , presumably something off the GN - amused to see 4 route learners joining at the latter station.

Epic run back 1629 Blackfriars to 1650 St Albans - clear and clean fast line path.

My wife observed the nearly new ambience and sparkling performance.

 

[Bromley boy]

One TL service has come through Dartford in the last three hours, apparently, so not doing too well on the north Kent again.

EDIT: several have been cancelled in succession due to “issue with train crew” according to RTT.

 

[Bedpan]

A few cancellations doesn't mean failure for Thameslink, give it a chance! It's in its second day in time you'll be grateful for this service it's a great link and the Woolwich line is very lucky to have it

In time, maybe, when I go to see Charlton, which won't be next season as my team have been relegated. In the meantime I am going to Chatham tomorrow. I arranged to take the wife there months ago for a "Call the Midwife" tour but delayed until now so we could go on the new direct service, but now the time has come I can't rely on the trains to be running. Not to worry too much though, I can change at St Pancras, wait there 20 minutes and still arrive in Chatham in half an hour less time than the direct train would take. Probably be a blessing in disguise really, as no doubt I'd have had to be off to the doctors to get some piles cream after 2x2 hours sitting in a 700.

 

[Bromley boy]

A gentle off peak journey from St Albans (to Chelsea) , showed a pretty solid service - though noted one Rainham cape and 2 off the GN. Very slight blocking back on the approach to St Pancras , presumably something off the GN - amused to see 4 route learners joining at the latter station.

Epic run back 1629 Blackfriars to 1650 St Albans - clear and clean fast line path.

My wife observed the nearly new ambience and sparkling performance.

It does have the makings of an excellent service. It’s incredible how many trains are now being pumped through London Bridge.

The TL island platform has been looking decided crowded, though. Possibly a little too thin for the numbers using it (and we are only on day 3 of the timetable with a service that hasn’t been fully ramped up yet).

 

[ChiefPlanner]

It does have the makings of an excellent service. It’s incredible how many trains are now being pumped through London Bridge.

The TL island platform has been looking decided crowded, though. Possibly a little too thin for the numbers using it (and we are only on day 3 of the timetable with a service that hasn’t been fully ramped up yet).

As a seasoned ex Thameslink passenger since 1990 , of late the off peak has clearly been showing good growth , today's observation how much Farringdon and Blackfriars have more off peak business around - perhaps the welcome return to London Bridge is a factor (compared to the hot Northern Line) , but obviously new services , albeit a bit patchy.

Despatch staff are at least doubled up in the core , which is great.

Now come stage 1 of Crossrail in December - TLK will have settled down we hope , and then the core will become very much busier all day. All to play for.

As long term social visitors to Lee , Greenwich Park and Blackheath , our lives will be transformed with the new Rainham service , having borne much disruptive weekend travelling over the last 5 years. Memorably in several blizzards....

 

[Ianno87]

It does have the makings of an excellent service. It’s incredible how many trains are now being pumped through London Bridge.

The TL island platform has been looking decided crowded, though. Possibly a little too thin for the numbers using it (and we are only on day 3 of the timetable with a service that hasn’t been fully ramped up yet).

Oh yes, very busy on Monday morning, as mine and another train dumped passengers onto 4/5 simultaneously, with Gatwick-bound passengers waiting to board.

PM peak equally busy, passengers lining up to doors and all.

 

[Mikey C]

Where is that money tree again?

Well the money tree was found for the 700s in the first place, and to replace all of SWR's trains (including the brand new 707s) and will be found to replace all the Southeastern inner suburbans in the next franchise

 

[Mikey C]

As a seasoned ex Thameslink passenger since 1990 , of late the off peak has clearly been showing good growth , today's observation how much Farringdon and Blackfriars have more off peak business around - perhaps the welcome return to London Bridge is a factor (compared to the hot Northern Line) , but obviously new services , albeit a bit patchy.

Despatch staff are at least doubled up in the core , which is great.

Now come stage 1 of Crossrail in December - TLK will have settled down we hope , and then the core will become very much busier all day. All to play for.

As long term social visitors to Lee , Greenwich Park and Blackheath , our lives will be transformed with the new Rainham service , having borne much disruptive weekend travelling over the last 5 years. Memorably in several blizzards....

Farringdon, like many previous slightly dowdy parts of London, has become vibrant and trendy. Ditto Kings Cross and even Blackfriars (if you consider the South Bank developments like the Tate Modern)

As for the Rainham service, I suspect most people would rather have kept their previous Southeastern services and change at London Bridge.

 

[Bishopstone]

The number of cancellations this evening is pretty grim, after a better morning.

To take an example: as of 21.00, everything on the Up from Littlehaven is cancelled until at least 22.30. There were hour-plus gaps in the Down service, as well, though these are being plugged by additional calls on Southern’s Pompey/Bognor services, making them even later.

 

[Antman]

Farringdon, like many previous slightly dowdy parts of London, has become vibrant and trendy. Ditto Kings Cross and even Blackfriars (if you consider the South Bank developments like the Tate Modern)

As for the Rainham service, I suspect most people would rather have kept their previous Southeastern services and change at London Bridge.

Absolutely and I don't think the Rainham service needs go any further east than Gravesend.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Farringdon, like many previous slightly dowdy parts of London, has become vibrant and trendy. Ditto Kings Cross and even Blackfriars (if you consider the South Bank developments like the Tate Modern)

As for the Rainham service, I suspect most people would rather have kept their previous Southeastern services and change at London Bridge.

Places like the Farringdon area have changed radically , let alone the Kings Cross area (used to walk from the old TLK station to St Pancras via the Underground links as the streets were very dodgy - not that long ago) - Blackfriars and the South Bank were never that bad , but are now genuinely vibrant and pretty safe IMHO. Would like to think the railway has improved things materially.....

Even Kentish Town now has community gardens - and what was described as London's grimmest High Street (an accolade probably best left to KIlburn High Road) , is hugely improved.

 

[Antman]

It does have the makings of an excellent service. It’s incredible how many trains are now being pumped through London Bridge.

The TL island platform has been looking decided crowded, though. Possibly a little too thin for the numbers using it (and we are only on day 3 of the timetable with a service that hasn’t been fully ramped up yet).

When the dust settles I'm sure it will be very useful indeed, it's almost like having a new tube line through the centre of London with all sorts of new opportunities.

 

[NorthKent1989]

Absolutely and I don't think the Rainham service needs go any further east than Gravesend.

Yep, then route this via Sidcup, avoiding Lewisham, calling at New Cross.

 

[Mike99]

Did the 09:26 Peterborough through to East Croydon this morning, was a lovely ride, arrived East Croydon 8 mins late, but had been spot on time until passing Anerley 1 minute early. I noticed 4 extra staff joined the driver departing Finsbury Park, two of which alighted at St Pancras, so presumably training of some sorts. I found the seats ok, but that will always suit some and not others.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Yep, then route this via Sidcup, avoiding Lewisham, calling at New Cross.

That was an option looked at an awful long time ago , and discounted. Good thing is that it could be revitalised - for what it is worth , now there is a "footprint" of Thameslink working in the SE area (when the service runs !) , a bit of service changing can be accommodated. At least the complete nonsense of sending 8 car 700's to the verdant , traffic less purlieus of Tattenham Corner have been booted firmly into the long grass...