Should Seat Reservations Be Abolished?

[6Gman]

A lot of people will board a train and if they see an unreserved seat that they think will do, they don't bother to seek out their reserved one.

On longer trains (yes, there are still a few ) I think people sometimes get on the train some distance from their reservations and find it easier to occupy any spare seats there rather than trail through two or three carriages to find their reservations.

 

[pt_mad]

You keep laughing like it is a joke but it is true. Many people would rather stand than sit next to somebody else...

Which is why in a way sometimes I prefer 3+2 (or as Bletchleyite says, maybe 3+1) as you can sit at a bay of 6 with 3 strangers and not feel as cramped as sitting at a bay of 4.

So either you are making fun of quite a lot of the British commuting public (as I see this daily) or you don't understand how they feel!

I find it slightly humourous in an ironic way that it's being suggested that passengers really dislike sitting with anyone else they don't know on a widespread basis. To the point you say they'd rather stand than sit. When the mode of transport they are choosing has sharing as it's basis. The whole thing is based around sharing, more than likely in close proximity.
I do know how it feels because I do it, and have no problem with sharing as that's the design of the train.

The thread is about reserved seats. And if you reserve a seat, chances are you're going to have someone else next to you that you don't know. It's not possible to stipulate when reserving a seat that you wish for the adjacent seat to be left vacant.

 

[al78]

I find it slightly humourous in an ironic way that it's being suggested that passengers really dislike sitting with anyone else they don't know on a widespread basis. To the point you say they'd rather stand than sit. When the mode of transport they are choosing has sharing as it's basis. The whole thing is based around sharing, more than likely in close proximity.
I do know how it feels because I do it, and have no problem with sharing as that's the design of the train.

The thread is about reserved seats. And if you reserve a seat, chances are you're going to have someone else next to you that you don't know. It's not possible to stipulate when reserving a seat that you wish for the adjacent seat to be left vacant.

It is to do with personal space, and who individuals prefer to invite into their personal space (hint: it is not strangers). A public place such as a railway carriage does not alter this, and people have defence mechanisms where invasion of personal space is necessary (e.g. zoning out).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proxemics
https://www.livescience.com/20801-personal-space.html
http://madamenoire.com/835053/personal-space/

 

[Bletchleyite]

It is to do with personal space, and who individuals prefer to invite into their personal space (hint: it is not strangers). A public place such as a railway carriage does not alter this, and people have defence mechanisms where invasion of personal space is necessary (e.g. zoning out).

A mobile phone or tablet is an excellent tool if you want to disconnect yourself, both de-facto and visibly, from a personal space issue like that.

 

[DavidGrain]

Just for fun a few years ago I reserved seat 62 in a carriage on Eurostar just to see who was in seat 61. On the return journey it chanced to be someone I knew!

 

[the Rat]

The short answer is no.

The more considered response is that the 'seat reservation issue' is a symptom of a far bigger problem, namely that most trains aren't long enough or frequent enough. More capacity = less need to guarantee a seat. Not possible on every route admittedly, but would probably deal with a large proportion of previously posted issues.

As far as the current system goes, the inability to specify which seat you can book will always mean travellers will ignore their reservation if it isn't preferable and sit elsewhere, often leaving the reservation ticket in the original seat. I've just spent a considerable amount of time trying to get a First Class airline seat for LSK to EXD next week. Has proven impossible, but I know when I board, there will probably be single seats available. Whether I then remember to remove my original reservation and take it to my new seat...

 

[Senex]

I was on a train from St Pancras to Sheffield last Friday. Leaving London, every single solo seat in the coach I was in (can't remember the EMT lettering system—equivalent of L on VTEC) was reserved from St Pancras, but after departure only about half of them had been taken. As far as I could see, none of the bays of four had been reserved at all.

 

[Allwinter_Kit]

I'm entirely fine with reservations - provided everyone accepts the 'get up if somebody who has actually reserved that seat or who clearly needs it more than you turns up' rule.

Where I would say they should be done away with is peak time trains. Why TPE allow the practice of reservations on their peak time commuter trains in the core is a mystery.

They should be like other commuter trains and just be unreserved, rather than having a ridiculous game of musical chairs at Huddersfield every morning.

Perhaps if you're going through to Manchester Airport from York or to Hull from Liverpool you can reserve one, but the short 20 minute hops between Leeds/Manchester/Huddersfield/Dewsbury/Stalybridge shouldn't qualify.

I would say that it'll be less of an issue when the longer trains come in (3 carriages between two of the UK's biggest cities?! Come on!) but actually I think they are going to be over-full from the get-go.

 

[trainophile]

The TM on my VTWC from Haymarket to Carlisle yesterday was vehemently asking several times that people with a reservation should sit in their reserved seat so that people boarding without a reservation would be able to find somewhere to sit. He said it was going to be a busy train later on, so maybe that’s why the instruction, or is this a new or revived policy I wonder.

I’m about to board one today CAR-CRE and seem to have accidentally booked a backwards facing seat, so I may be putting it to the test and heading for K!

Edit: oops apparently it’s G for unreserved 1st but i’m happily in K with a whole coach to myself! No announcement about sitting where it says on your ticket!

 

[DavidGrain]

I think the XC adverts saying that you can buy an Advance ticket with a guaranteed seat up to 15 minutes before departure should be stopped. Imagine if you are settled comfortably in your seat from Oxford to Manchester showing 'Available' and just as the train is leaving Birmingham someone demands your seat as far as Stafford. If you have a window seat you cannot keep checking if your seat has suddenly been reserved.

 

[trainophile]

It’s very strange that XC offer such short notice reservations when their parent group Arriva cuts off quite early the previous day. One extreme to the other.

Good point about the visibility of sudden reservations if you’re in a window seat. It’s a ridiculous system.

 

[edwin_m]

I think the XC adverts saying that you can buy an Advance ticket with a guaranteed seat up to 15 minutes before departure should be stopped. Imagine if you are settled comfortably in your seat from Oxford to Manchester showing 'Available' and just as the train is leaving Birmingham someone demands your seat as far as Stafford. If you have a window seat you cannot keep checking if your seat has suddenly been reserved.

Yes this should be stopped but it doesn't invalidate the principle of short-notice reservations. The operator just needs to allocate a block of seats that show "may be reserved" and if these are used up tell any intending bookers that nothing is available.

 

[Senex]

I think the XC adverts saying that you can buy an Advance ticket with a guaranteed seat up to 15 minutes before departure should be stopped. Imagine if you are settled comfortably in your seat from Oxford to Manchester showing 'Available' and just as the train is leaving Birmingham someone demands your seat as far as Stafford. If you have a window seat you cannot keep checking if your seat has suddenly been reserved.

It's not as if you may have to move just once—it can be three or four times on a long journey. (Personal experience.)

 

[westv]

It's not as if you may have to move just once—it can be three or four times on a long journey. (Personal experience.)

It's all part of their DVT prevention strategy.

 

[DavidGrain]

It's all part of their DVT prevention strategy.

As this is a railway forum I read DVT as Driving Van Trailer. It took a few seconds to get Deep Vein Thrombosis

 

[Senex]

It's all part of their DVT prevention strategy.

Unfortunately that would be to credit them with actually caring for their customers.

 

[Deafdoggie]

Yes this should be stopped but it doesn't invalidate the principle of short-notice reservations. The operator just needs to allocate a block of seats that show "may be reserved" and if these are used up tell any intending bookers that nothing is available.

That is what they have. Some seats show "Available" others show "May be reserved"

 

[Esker-pades]

A lot of seats can be reserved by businesses, and then not used because of whatever reason. I recently did a London to Bristol and return over a long weekend. Both times I had a two-seater free, despite both seats being reserved (one by me, one by someone else).

Abolishing seat reservations should not be a thing. Especially for long distance services, having a seat reserved is very useful. Especially as, once one leaves the station, one can take any reserved seat that isn't used. It's not much of an inconvenience for anybody. Problems outlined in the original post can be and are solved by common sense. So, in conclusion, no.

 

[edwin_m]

That is what they have. Some seats show "Available" others show "May be reserved"

So why do we have these tails of people having to move when someone reserves their seat during the journey? Do seats ever change from "available" to "may be reserved" or is it that they don't allocate enough "available" ones so people have to change it in a "may be reserved"?

 

[Senex]

So why do we have these tails of people having to move when someone reserves their seat during the journey? Do seats ever change from "available" to "may be reserved" or is it that they don't allocate enough "available" ones so people have to change it in a "may be reserved"?

This is the Voyager seating-plan from the XC web-site. You'll see there are no NR (= non-reservable) seats in First (and very few in Standard). Thus any seat in First may be reserved whilst there is someone actually sitting in it.

 

[Deafdoggie]

This is the Voyager seating-plan from the XC web-site. You'll see there are no NR (= non-reservable) seats in First (and very few in Standard). Thus any seat in First may be reserved whilst there is someone actually sitting in it.

Non-reservable Seats simply don’t have the electronic display above them, so cannot show “available” “may be reserved” or “reserved...”
When 10 Minute reservations started all seats that were not reserved showed “may be reserved en-route” this led to complaints about being turfed out of seats. However, now most seats that are not reserved are simply “available” whilst there are only a small number of 10 Minute reservation seats.
I’m not a fan of 10 minute reservations at all, but the chances of being turfed our are small. It’s much more likely that the reservation system isn’t working properly!

 

[whhistle]

Just thought:

I wonder if the answer would be that now tickets should be the new style (IE, advance tickets have the seat res on the same ticket), could off-peak and super off-peak tickets become "named train only" if you make a reservation?

So if you want to travel on a specific train, the ticket becomes only valid on that train.
If you don't know when you're travelling, or want flexibility, then you shouldn't be having seat reservations for a specific train.

Yes, it would "harm" some people but perhaps a happy medium.

 

[mmh]

Just thought:

I wonder if the answer would be that now tickets should be the new style (IE, advance tickets have the seat res on the same ticket), could off-peak and super off-peak tickets become "named train only" if you make a reservation?

So if you want to travel on a specific train, the ticket becomes only valid on that train.
If you don't know when you're travelling, or want flexibility, then you shouldn't be having seat reservations for a specific train.

No - what happens when I miss the train I was aiming for?

Yes, it would "harm" some people but perhaps a happy medium.

The last thing we need is a more complicated ticketing system though. I'm unconvinced that the unused seat reservation issue is as big a problem is is made out. Yes, there will be cases where people had no idea which train they were going to use, but as the online booking systems offered them a choice they chose one, but that's always going to be the case.

If the seat's reserved but hasn't been taken, just sit in it.

 

[crosscity]

Non-reservable Seats simply don’t have the electronic display above them, so cannot show “available” “may be reserved” or “reserved...”
When 10 Minute reservations started all seats that were not reserved showed “may be reserved en-route” this led to complaints about being turfed out of seats. However, now most seats that are not reserved are simply “available” whilst there are only a small number of 10 Minute reservation seats.
I’m not a fan of 10 minute reservations at all, but the chances of being turfed our are small. It’s much more likely that the reservation system isn’t working properly!

After Cross-Country started their 10-minute reservations I contacted them because I was worried that the number of unreserved seats was going to plummet. I tend not to reserve seats as I like the flexibility of deciding to catch the next train when I'm ready. I had quite an email conversation, but the outcome was that for any train operated by them a maximum of 60% of seats would be reserved irrespective of the type or length of train. This was in 2015 and I hope it is still the case.

 

[Journeyman]

If the seat's reserved but hasn't been taken, just sit in it.

Yup - this. Done it loads of times, it's never been a problem.

The issue is a lot of people see a seat with a label attached and assume it's completely unavailable, without checking where the reservations are from/to.

 

[route101]

Noticed some behaviour yesterday . VTEC from Edinburgh to Glasgow . Most seats in the carriage had reservation labels but most were vacant , a young couple thought that cant sit in them , seen this a few times.

 

[DavidGrain]

This was some years ago in BR days. I was on a crowded train from Euston travelling to Birmingham. In one coach there were many seats labeled Reserved from Birmingham to Manchester. So no problem, I and many other passengers occupied the seats. At Birmingham International a large party of 20-30 people got on and tried to claim the seats. I led the coach in refusing to move as we had not yet reached Birmingham. They therefore had to stand and were most annoyed about it. At New Street we all left the train and they took their seats, but we had to push past them standing in the gangway.