Grangemouth reopening story... BBC stock photo

[A60K]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/nolpda/ukfs_news/hi/newsid_8244000/8244168.stm

Interesting to see that reopening to Grangemouth is still being talked about - I believe when it was last looked at the fact that the junction at Falkirk faces the wrong way was seen as a negative factor for people wanting to travel to Edinburgh.

However, even if it does reopen I doubt that Intercity liveried HSTs will be running the service, as suggested by the BBC's choice of picture!

 

[jopsuk]

I've seen pics of third rail slam door trains used to illustrate Scottish rail stories within the last year- generally what happens is they throw up a random rail pic at first, then eventually get round to putting in appropriate one.

 

[route:oxford]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/nolpda/ukfs_news/hi/newsid_8244000/8244168.stm

Interesting to see that reopening to Grangemouth is still being talked about - I believe when it was last looked at the fact that the junction at Falkirk faces the wrong way was seen as a negative factor for people wanting to travel to Edinburgh.

However, even if it does reopen I doubt that Intercity liveried HSTs will be running the service, as suggested by the BBC's choice of picture!

Thing is, it's been "discovered" in Scotland that if a rail service is provided - people will use it. In the case of the Alloa route, far more than was ever imagined.

A direct service from Grangemouth to Edinburgh just wouldn't be sensible. Extending the service from Glasgow to Falkirk Grahamston via Cumbernauld down to Grangemouth could be the way to go.

 

[gingerheid]

Yes - the one thing about Scotland is that they've started a lot of new services over the last 20 or so years and all have succeeded!

I hope GARL will, I'm certain Airdrie to Bathgate will, and I'm convinced Grangemouth would too.

I worry about the Borders line though. It's a very brave project to rebuild a rural line, and I hope it isn't just too slow to be useful and that it isn't the one exception that makes rail building less politically viable.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

I hope GARL will [succeed], I'm certain Airdrie to Bathgate will, and I'm convinced Grangemouth would too.

Completely agree! Transport for Scotland has taken a fine lead in developing its railways.

I worry about the Borders line though. It's a very brave project to rebuild a rural line, and I hope it isn't just too slow to be useful and that it isn't the one exception that makes rail building less politically viable.

It has one familiar indicator of failure - its a compromise. It doesn't actually go to the key Border towns of Peebles or Jedburgh (nor Selkirk, Hawick, Coldstream etc). Its mainly single track. It has doubtful capacity for future development into a) dual track, b) freight, c) extensions.

Another doubtful decision was to abandon the Edinburgh Airport rail-link. In my opinion it was excessively costly (involving routing 2 existing lines right under a working airport where 1 line to the southern edge plus a chord would have been adequate) but replacing the rail-link with the Edin tram seems to miss the point of giving an airport its regional connections by rail.

But there are other Scottish improvements I'm impatient for, and they needn't all be costly! They are: 1. greatly reduced journey times between a) Stirling / Perth and b) Edin / Glas, and, 2. stopping services that connect the Scottish and English towns on the ECML between Edin & Newcastle, 3. reduced journey times on all the remote lines (esp North Highland and Ayreshire-Stranraer), 4. a station at Dalcross to serve Inverness airport. Each of those compete with poor roads - the rail improvements would encourage shift from road to rail just as Grangemouth connections can.

 

[route:oxford]

It has one familiar indicator of failure - its a compromise. It doesn't actually go to the key Border towns of Peebles or Jedburgh (nor Selkirk, Hawick, Coldstream etc). Its mainly single track. It has doubtful capacity for future development into a) dual track, b) freight, c) extensions.

There is still time to do this properly. It should be rebuilt to HS2 standards, with full electification this could be the Scottish funded route from the Capital to the English Border at Carlisle. Planning ahead could give the Borders rail service that it needs by running fast electric local services around the timetabled expresses.

But there are other Scottish improvements I'm impatient for, and they needn't all be costly! They are: 1. greatly reduced journey times between Stirling - Perth

Are the services between Stirling & Perth that bad? Had a quick look. 27-33 mins is the usual. I was expecting the train from Perth to Stirling to be marginally quicker (well, it is mostly downhill!) but on average it is slower than the equivalent Northbound.

 

[me123]

In itself, a reopening to Grangenouth could allow extention of Glasgow-Falkirk Grahamston services, as suggested. But this may not prove popular as it is a much longer alternative than the direct Falkirk High Train (Edinburgh-Glasgow).

Edinburgh-Grangemouth would undoubtedly be a more popular and sensible option for the town. A direct line would serve Polmont and Linlithgow, which could allow more fast Edinburgh-Glasgow services. However, I'm unsure if Linlithgow and Polmont would want to sacrifice any direct trains to Glasgow.

I think this could prove tricky. The business case may be there for reopening, but the actual route is going to cause problems.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

But there are other Scottish improvements I'm impatient for, and they needn't all be costly! They are: 1. greatly reduced journey times between Stirling - Perth and both Edin & Glas, and, 2. stopping services that connect the Scottish and English towns on the ECML between Edin & Newcastle,

Stirling to Perth could (and IMO should) be improved by electrifying the line up to Perth when they're doing Stirling electrification (2015ish?). This would in itself allow faster journey times. While they're at it, they could improve the line as well at minimal extra cost and disruption.

Edinburgh-Newcastle stopper is a good idea; I've always thought it would be feasible. But politically, it would be a nightmare given devolution (let's just say I don't expect Alex Salmond to happily pay for any of this). The other problem is passing loops, are lack of them, for the faster services.

Borders will actually be a good rail link when it opens; it is serving pretty large conurbations (some of the largest in Scotland without rail stations). But I do worry that it's being done on the cheap. They should have learned their lesson from Alloa; rail is gaining popularity and you should allow for a lot of growth. I strongly believe it would also be a good opportunity to electrify the line and provide a second wired route from Edinburgh-Carlisle, potentially helping to clear the WCML.

As long as they can upgrade to double track as and when necessary, I think they may get away with it.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Are the services between Stirling & Perth that bad? Had a quick look. 27-33 mins is the usual. I was expecting the train from Perth to Stirling to be marginally quicker (well, it is mostly downhill!) but on average it is slower than the equivalent Northbound.

Sorry, what I meant to highlight was the journey time between a) Either Stirling or Perth, and b) Either Glasgow or Edinburgh.
This http://www.hie.co.uk/HIE-Transport-related-documents/Highland-rail-room-for-growth.pdf Scott Wilson report commissioned by Highlands & Islands Enterprise recognised that while it would be costly and environmentally damaging to provide great speed improvements to the Highland Mainline, it WOULD be viable and useful to enhance speeds to the southern end of this line, (eg Edin - Perth currently 1hour 30mins on NXEC HST)
Quote from p 74:
From an operational perspective the journey time between Edinburgh and Inverness could be much reduced by line speed improvements between Ladybank and Hilton Junction. Line capacity can be increased by re-doubling the track between Newburgh and Hilton and by raising the line speed from 55mph to 90 mph. The journey time can be further cut by eliminating station stops in Fife and if the journey time between Edinburgh and Perth can be reduced to a maximum of one hour using voyager type units, calling at Haymarket only, then an end to end journey time of two hours and forty-five minutes between Edinburgh and Inverness can be achieved. (which is currently 3hours 30mins)

 

[starrymarkb]

I've seen pics of third rail slam door trains used to illustrate Scottish rail stories within the last year- generally what happens is they throw up a random rail pic at first, then eventually get round to putting in appropriate one.

I think the Local Hack that writes these stories just types "rail" or "train" into the picture library.

I've noticed that First Rail usually get a Barbie HST, Arriva (inc CrossCountry) get an Arriva Sprinter.

The Exmouth Journal recently had a story about the pacers going from Devon to be replaced by London Midland Sprinters - and illustrated it with a photo of a 150 captioned as "One of the old trains" - now I know what's happened, cub photographer has been despatched to Exmouth station having been told the line is run by Pacers and to get a picture of one, and FGW happen to have a rare Sprinter on the branch that trip...

Mind you the Daily mail has been known to raid fotopic for images (without credit) so its not something confined to the locals or BBC

 

[90019]

Another doubtful decision was to abandon the Edinburgh Airport rail-link. In my opinion it was excessively costly (involving routing 2 existing lines right under a working airport where 1 line to the southern edge plus a chord would have been adequate) but replacing the rail-link with the Edin tram seems to miss the point of giving an airport its regional connections by rail.

This is one that particularly annoys me (As anyone who knows me at all will know ), we already have one of the main routes to the North (Over the Forth Bridge), that goes right past the airport, it goes right past the end of the runway. I would've thought it would be so much simpler to have a line coming off the existing ones running up to the terminal.
If the lines up to this station were to be electrified, would there be eough capacity with the 322s to run North Berwick - Edinburgh - Edinburgh Airport?

 

[me123]

If the lines up to this station were to be electrified, would there be eough capacity with the 322s to run North Berwick - Edinburgh - Edinburgh Airport?

Easily. Although you would need to base the 322s in Edinburgh for this to happen, and they would need to axe the services to Glasgow, but there's no real loss to the West Coast.

 

[90019]

Easily. Although you would need to base the 322s in Edinburgh for this to happen, and they would need to axe the services to Glasgow, but there's no real loss to the West Coast.

Yeah, there's not exactly a shortage of Edinburgh - Glasgow trains.
I would say it would be a better use of the 322s as well.

 

[me123]

I would support further services down that line, but 322s are a waste of resources in my opinion. I'd rather see Crosscountry serve that way to allow direct trains to Newcastle and Leeds.