Poll: What are your suggestions for the future redundant HST sets?

[LOL The Irony]

What should happen to all the HST's going off lease that don't yet have a home?
(I say turn the ones that don't find a home into affordable housing & homless shelters)

 

[RLBH]

If people want to pay to run them as trains (whether passenger, parcels, heritage or departmental) then let them.

If they don't, turn them into razor blades before anyone gets a damn fool campaign running.

 

[cjmillsnun]

A few should go into preservation (2 complete sets to the 125 group and however many to whomever wants to preserve them). If a parcels company is serious about having a go then a few sets could go to them. Otherwise it will likely be Booth’s for the rest.

The 2 sets to the 125 group will allow a PC of each engine type (they could convert one PC back to a Valenta with one of their spare engines) and one spare as I would hope they could look for 41001 to be adapted for mainline useage at that point.

 

[Journeyman]

It's extremely unlikely that many of them will be needed for anything, beyond the ScotRail, XC and GWR short sets.

Most will go for scrap.

 

[mushroomchow]

A couple of options that have been floated that should really be in the main poll:

• Retrofit for charter / heritage use
• Modernise for use beyond 2020 (as is already - albeit incredibly slowly - happening with the plug door sets)
• Export to wherever they're wanted

The gricer in me would like to see at least a few converted for postal use, though whether that's in the least bit financially viable remains to be seen. I think it's most likely that you'll start to see a mixture of preservation, scrappings and small fleets being bought by charter / open access operators over the coming half decade.

 

[mushroomchow]

One more semi-serious one: Give me a bodyshell and I'll turn it into a one-of-a-kind food van.

 

[ainsworth74]

Man there is going to be so much wailing when the first HSTs goes to the cutters torch. I fear some people really need to start mentally preparing themselves for this

 

[Fawkes Cat]

This really is starting from the wrong end.

The question as phrased seems to have a subtext of 'how can these trains I love be kept going?'. But in the real world - the world of franchised operators looking to make profits, limited resources, insufficient stock to meet passenger demand, and so on, the subtext should probably be 'what resources does the railway need right now?' and the headline question 'how can redundant HSTs best be used to meet the railway's urgent needs?'.

 

[Journeyman]

Man there is going to be so much wailing when the first HSTs goes to the cutters torch. I fear some people really need to start mentally preparing themselves for this

True! A lot of them - the vast majority, I suspect - will be bean cans before long. I'm not going to cry any tears about this - they've been a phenomenal success and have served the railway brilliantly over the years. But...they're old and knackered, and won't go on forever. Desperately scrabbling about trying to find uses for them is a bit ridiculous.

 

[Journeyman]

This really is starting from the wrong end.

The question as phrased seems to have a subtext of 'how can these trains I love be kept going?'. But in the real world - the world of franchised operators looking to make profits, limited resources, insufficient stock to meet passenger demand, and so on, the subtext should probably be 'what resources does the railway need right now?' and the headline question 'how can redundant HSTs best be used to meet the railway's urgent needs?'.

They can't, not without significant work which is rapidly proving to be difficult and far from cost-effective. ScotRail have made a mistake - they should have bought new.

 

[DenmarkRail]

What are the maximum carriages for an XC HST? It would be quite nice if XC could take a few more HSTs but then strengthen them, and existing ones with an extra carriage or so. I can see some more carriages going into the Scotrail sets, and possibly, possibly an extra carriage into the GWR baby sets, but apart from that I think it’ll either be export to somewhere odd (like Iran or something) or scrap and a bit of preservation. If I had the space, I’d be the first to buy a carriage! I love the noise of the slam doors

 

[swt_passenger]

What are the maximum carriages for an XC HST? It would be quite nice if XC could take a few more HSTs but then strengthen them, and existing ones with an extra carriage or so. I can see some more carriages going into the Scotrail sets, and possibly, possibly an extra carriage into the GWR baby sets...

Max practical length is probably 9 carriages as seen on ECML? I don’t think that’s been routinely done on GW though, as it impacts on performance, and 10+2 even more as well as starting to exceed some platform lengths. If they had to continue to meet Voyager timings and performance they might never be extendable.

It would be ‘quite nice’ if people just read all the previous threads about HSTs though, especially those about XC, rather repeating all the same discussion again.

 

[DarloRich]

This really is starting from the wrong end.

The question as phrased seems to have a subtext of 'how can these trains I love be kept going?'. But in the real world - the world of franchised operators looking to make profits, limited resources, insufficient stock to meet passenger demand, and so on, the subtext should probably be 'what resources does the railway need right now?' and the headline question 'how can redundant HSTs best be used to meet the railway's urgent needs?'.

I have highlighted the key phrase in your post - we need to take a good look at options and make sure we have rejected an old HST as a short term solution to them all before we bin them. Cutting up decent stock with people left behind at the station is not a good look!

 

[AndrewE]

I agree with Darlo, Given that XC are woefully short of capacity and we shall probably not see wires between Reading or Bristol and Brum, or from Lichfield/Tamworth to Leeds for several decades I would say concentrate them there, even if it means timetabling that route slightly slower to allow for the stock on it. Make sure that any replacement fleet has at least as many seats (and is as comfortable) as the trains it replaces.

 

[broadgage]

IMHO, They should be kept in substantially original condition as spares for other operators.
Not long term of course, there is a limit as to how long something old and rapidly becoming non standard can be kept.
But for a few years.
To scrap serviceable trains, whilst passengers are suffering severe overcrowding due to "lack of rolling stock" is daft.

 

[InterCity:125]

Definitely need a couple to go into preservation.

 

[Mikey C]

I imagine a bit of everything will happen. After all it's not as if the current formations are how they started with 40 years ago

And what exactly is it that's iconic, the Class 43 loco or the Mk3 carriages? To me it's the locos

 

[USRailFan]

Man there is going to be so much wailing when the first HSTs goes to the cutters torch. I fear some people really need to start mentally preparing themselves for this

Haven't there been enough HST stock scrapped after accidents that (at least) a full set has in reality been scrapped already?

 

[mikeg]

I've put other: Find working Valenta and send for heritage duties (well at least for a few of them!). I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks like this, they have been a mainstay of intercity rail travel for over forty years and have earned their place in the history books, I'd say moreso than many locos and DMUs we have today in preservation.

 

[RichJF]

One of two snapped up by railtour operators (as is already happening) with a few spare coaches.

Another one potentially converted into a second NR measurement train.

A couple of power cars put on display at the NRM in York.

 

[JohnMcL7]

Do they ever use the class 43's for the measuring train? Recently I've only seen pictures of it with 37's.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I certainly think enough spare coaches should be retained for all the short formations to be upped by one, as I think is likely to be needed.

 

[richieb1971]

10 minutes after the last HST has been crushed and cut to pieces a rail magazine will report a shortage of rolling stock.

You read it here first folks.

 

[Skymonster]

• 125 group already has an aim to preserve a set and put Valenta engines into it - and enable it to work along with the prototype power car.
• LSL are acquiring at least one set [probably for the charter market] and I'd not be surprised if one or two of the other companies such as WCRC did the same.
• Some will be upgraded and soldier on with regular TOCs such Jockrail, GWR (short sets) and Cross Country.
• Network Rail have three power cars that are used to form the New Measurement Train and undoubtedly that will serve for many more years.

Beyond that refurbishing more HST sets is an expensive and unreliable solution to a problem that can be better addressed by new stock. The vast majority of those not redeployed by the above will go for scrap - their time has come to an end.

 

[sprinterguy]

Do they ever use the class 43's for the measuring train? Recently I've only seen pictures of it with 37's.

The New Measurement Train always operates with class 43 power cars, I see it regularly, most recently last Thursday. The class 37 powered test trains, such as the Ultrasonic Rail Test Trains, are separate track inspection trains utilising their own dedicated pool of rolling stock.

 

[Starmill]

I think it quite likely that SR will want to take on a small number of additional coaches to support their maintenance, if (when?) they realise that they aren't as reliable as anticipated.

I would say it's also a possibility that they could want to lengthen their sets so they're all 5 car.

 

[Smitham]

Convert them to 442s?

 

[43096]

A few should go into preservation (2 complete sets to the 125 group and however many to whomever wants to preserve them). If a parcels company is serious about having a go then a few sets could go to them. Otherwise it will likely be Booth’s for the rest.

The 2 sets to the 125 group will allow a PC of each engine type (they could convert one PC back to a Valenta with one of their spare engines) and one spare as I would hope they could look for 41001 to be adapted for mainline useage at that point.

So whilst you’re playing fantasy trains with other people’s time and money, perhaps you could explain where you find an MB190 and suitable cooler group to convert a power car back to that from?

 

[USRailFan]

Aren't there still original Valentas in the Aussie XPTs?

 

[cjmillsnun]

So whilst you’re playing fantasy trains with other people’s time and money, perhaps you could explain where you find an MB190 and suitable cooler group to convert a power car back to that from?

The 125 group has spare engines and cooler groups