Imagine having 2 Leeds-Manchester lines, both serving large intermediate destinations. Absolute science fiction stuff
-
Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Transpennine Route Upgrade and Electrification updates
- Thread starter GRALISTAIR
- Start date
Imagine having 2 Leeds-Manchester lines, both serving large intermediate destinations. Absolute science fiction stuff
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
I think it's safe to say that Bradford Crossrail is well outside of the scope of the Transpennine Route Upgrade and would be far more suited to a thread in Speculative Ideas as it's not at all on the radar (to my knowledge) of what is being proposed for this upgrade.
Eric
Member
No real case for reopening the Bradford avoiding line, not when there is going to be a new Bradford Central station running through the city and up to top of Laisterdyke.
superkev
Established Member
Ha ha. Does anyone here actually believe the Bradford central rhetoric.
K
matacaster
On Moderation
There's not a cat in hell's chance of it happening. Remember Bradford has form .... Odsal wembley of the north, a ring road which runs through the centre of town and is only two lanes in many parts, several chances to link the two stations passed up, Leeds / Bradford airport where proposed rail link only goes to Leeds, football club in League 1, rugby team playing in part-time league etc.
How could anyone possibly doubt that NPR will be built and with it Bradford Central station?
Not for freight as the incline would be 1 in 40 or steeper between the two stations.
superkev
Established Member
You forgot to include the 3 never finished ring roads, the motorway to knowhere, the Saltaire chunnel and more recently the swiming pool fiasco.
A reconstructed Bowling Lasterdyke avoiding line would be usefull both as a diversionary route and for speeding up Halifax Leeds trains by avoiding the Bradford reversal.
K
GRALISTAIR
Established Member
Killingworth
Established Member
We don't even have two tracks between Sheffield and Manchester thanks to the single line bottleneck through Dore & Totley!
61653 HTAFC
Veteran Member
Speeding up Halifax to Leeds by missing out the largest place between the two would be something of a Phyrric victory, I think. The only real use would be for freight, and only then during times that the routes via Brighouse or Huddersfield (including the difficult section through Mirfield) are closed during the upgrade.
Bantamzen
Established Member
There's zero call for it, even in the context of a Mirfield avoider for any future blockades. If anything it would probably just delay things further. I'd rather see engineers between Leeds and Huddersfield than them wasting time and money on an old diversionary path that will see only a few months services before rusting back up.
How's about this for an idea?
Now that Low Moor has been re-opened, why not divide/join units there, with one going to Bradford and one directly to Leeds, and vv?
Oh, hang on!.......
matacaster
On Moderation
How's about this for an idea?
Now that Low Moor has been re-opened, why not divide/join units there, with one going to Bradford and one directly to Leeds, and vv?
Oh, hang on!.......
Maybe better to run train direct to Leeds and have separate rope worked train from Low Moor to Bradford?
Bantamzen
Established Member
Maybe better to run train direct to Leeds and have separate rope worked train from Low Moor to Bradford?
Or a tunnel under Bradfo... Oh wait, we are not allowed to mention that ..
GRALISTAIR
Established Member
Enhancements Delivery Plan October 2018 (posted down thread too)
https://cdn.networkrail.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Enhancement-Delivery-Plan-.pdf
Page 11 is an interesting read IMHO
https://cdn.networkrail.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Enhancement-Delivery-Plan-.pdf
Page 11 is an interesting read IMHO
Noticed that Drax are advocating the reopening of Colne to Skipton for this purpose:
https://www.drax.com/energy-policy/northern-powerhouses-missing-link/
Shaw S Hunter
Established Member
I don't think they make any suggestion that they would help fund it. And no mention of how trains using that route would be pathed across the western approaches to Leeds. If they were really concerned about their supply chain they would fund a suitable shipping berth on their doorstep on the River Ouse and keep the traffic off the rail (and road!) network completely.
Interesting changes since June 2018:-
Phase 3 Still not completed GRIP6??? even though electric services are running.
Phase 4 Now has an estimated GRIP6 completion of December 2018
Phase 5 Put back from May 2018 to March 2019!!
I just love how Network Rail can never be late on any project work - just redefine the end date all the time.
Phase 3 Still not completed GRIP6??? even though electric services are running.
Phase 4 Now has an estimated GRIP6 completion of December 2018
Phase 5 Put back from May 2018 to March 2019!!
I just love how Network Rail can never be late on any project work - just redefine the end date all the time.
Killingworth
Established Member
See the Skipton and East Lancs Rail Action Partnership's plans which are long standing and advancing well with DfT support. Their latest prospectus is here; http://www.selrap.org.uk/p1_project/20180905_prospectus_web_version.pdf
And SELRAP's website; http://www.selrap.org.uk/SR1_1_project.html
They'd like to get the project started in CP6 and have a lot of firm backing.
Halifaxlad
Established Member
Well according to the 'PR13 Initial Industry Plan Supporting Document Definition of proposed CP5 enhancements - September 2011'
"the Yorkshire & Humber RUS (option CV1) identified the need for an additional hourly passenger shuttle service between Halifax and Leeds to cope with future passenger growth forecasts"
Im presuming that shuttle service means non-stop. If this is the case then it wouldn't be such a good idea to go into the Interchange!
If freight is to use the Skipton-Colne route, I hope there is a chord to a point east of Skipton to by-pass the station.
Eric
Member
Or a tunnel under Bradfo... Oh wait, we are not allowed to mention that ..
That Alex Ross-Shaw says the tunnel is still happening.
Eric
Member
How much would 12 miles cost to build as single track?
Bantamzen
Established Member
That could be achieved with the existing alignments via Brighouse, provided paths could be found from Mirfield up to Leeds. in terms of a Bradford-avoiding re-alignment for any TP upgrade, the cost & time of even getting the alignment clear would add significantly to the cost & time of the overall project. And given that this is already delayed, I don't think it is wise to introduce additional risk. If / When a North TP upgrade plan is signed off, it would be far better to do Manchester-Huddersfield & Huddersfield-Leeds in separate blocks, using whatever capacity could be squeezed out of the Calder Valley to cover some of the demand, with rail replacement buses working the rest.
As I said, for this project there simply isn't call for this, I'm not even sure there is really a case of a Halifax-Leeds fast service in truth, although that is really for another thread.
matacaster
On Moderation
He also regularly says Bradford is on the up!
matacaster
On Moderation
Although somewhat slower, the Leeds to Mirfield capacity issue could be addressed by going via Normanton.
Eric
Member
He’s in the T&A today talking about the new market taking over Marks and Spencer on Darley Street.
When I went to one of the council meetings a couple of months ago, I asked where the new central station was being built and he said they would fight tooth and nail for a new central station underground next to the broadway centre and little Germany.
I believe the council plan to turn little Germany into a new Bradford business district and having the railway station next to the shopping centre and business district would make sense.
The unanswered question is why still favour tunnelling up Leeds Road and joining the existing line before Pudsey.
I’d rather explore closing Forster Square down and have the new high speed line join the Aire Valley line before Frizinghall.
None of this will be cheap, so it’ll be interesting to see where the funding comes from.
The last thing Bradford needs is for that avoiding line to be reopened and a station that no one will use stuck at the top of the hill.
This new Bradford Central station has the opportunity to put Bradford back on the map.