GWR Class 800

[Thunderer]

Do you actually know anything about GWR's plans for services in the South West? Such as a two trains per hour frequency for the main line through Cornwall, with the IETs on London services supplemented by far more local/regional services including lots of the short HSTs, than there are in the current timetable. Providing more seats and far more choice of when to travel for passengers there.



Don't speak too soon.

The volume of the door beeper is a whole complaint, so even after what must now be 10 years of threads where people seem to have criticised anything and everything to do with the trains and the IEP project generally, there is still clearly scope for yet more criticism.

In the case of the beer, it seems to be much the same volume as on the 180s to my ears.

The first thing that comes to mind with the noise upon arrival at a station is brake cooling fans. The 800s mainly brake with friction brakes, whilst the 802s have rheostatic braking (which would require cooling)

thanks for the info..that would make sense and totally explain the different noises on breaking. Overall I was impressed with the 802, the acceleration was lightning quick (Newport to Cardiff in just over 11.5 minutes and it seems quicker than the 800 on diesel power?) and the 1st class seat covers look better and seem more comfortable.

 

[Thunderer]

The return working (1L94 19:29 Sawansea-Paddington) for 802009+802011 seems to have lost 20 minutes at Bridgend and is 29 late passing through Pencoed. Iris has got the service cancelled beyond Cardiff. Not sure what's happened here (Between Swansea and Cardiff), but there is an issue between Bath and Chippenham at the moment too..

 

[TractiveEffort]

The return working (1L94 19:29 Sawansea-Paddington) for 802009+802011 seems to have lost 20 minutes at Bridgend and is 29 late passing through Pencoed. Iris has got the service cancelled beyond Cardiff. Not sure what's happened here (Between Swansea and Cardiff), but there is an issue between Bath and Chippenham at the moment too..

1L90 hit something between Chippenham & Bath. 1L94 TPWS issue.

 

[Thunderer]

1L90 hit something between Chippenham & Bath. 1L94 TPWS issue.

Oh dear! Thanks for the info..much appreciated.

 

[jyte]

Right okay. Door bleeps possibly causing tinitus is one of the funniest things I've ever heard.

Permanent hearing damage is a function of sound intensity * exposure time. If the staff were being forced to have their head jammed against the door bleeper all day, an argument could be made for hearing protection. The traveling public, who probably use the trains on average only a few hours a week and are only subjected to a few minutes of door bleeping. People should be more concerned about crying babies, which can apparently emit SPLs of over 110db...lethal they are.

I seriously doubt that the tiny speakers on these trains are even capable of emitting 100dB, at which the 'safe' exposure limit is generally considered to be less than an hour/day.

edit: removed some of the more technically complicated language to make post easier to read.

 

[CMRail]

Planning my trip out tomorrow, going to put me ear next to the door alarm speaker, just like a normal human. If I don’t reply then expect that the worse happened..

 

[Pete_uk]

What did you say?

Is anyone able to compare a 180 to a 800 in terms of acceleration, breaking and noise?

 

[reddragon]

It's official!

There are so many new trains coming on stream, we've actually run out of good reasons to criticise them.

Hmm, I have a better reason to complain about the 800's.

Their numbers are too long and small. 800.003 is longer than 43003, and the coach numbers whats this 421003 six figured numbering thing about when 42003 would suffice? Then the units. 800.002, 800.302, 802.002 etc all end as 002 on the coach numbers so you know its unit 2 but of which class / batch? At least the HSTs have red line = buffet, yellow line = TF, no line = TS and lots of noise = power car, so simple. lol

Far more important to train spotters than hard seats, breakdowns, pealing vinyls, bleeps or performance etc!

 

[404250]

Ok ok, so the beeps aren't going to kill anyone or their ears. Still think it's a valid point about the volume though - does nobody else find it annoying hearing it from the middle of the coach at every stop, even in the quiet zone? There have been enough complaints about the engine noise which isn't too bad IMO

 

[broadgage]

The over loud beeping is another irritation on the new trains, not in my view a major problem though.
The more serious downgrades are the prevalence of short trains, the lack of a buffet, and the routine absence of reservations.

We have now had about a year of routine short formations on services to Cardiff and Bristol. When I commented on this, some pages back, a number of experts pointed out that little could be done, for a number of no doubt excellent reasons, and that short formations were in fact a positive feature of the flexibility of the new units. Since other wise there would be no train at all.
Short formed units usually had no available trolley, nor any reservations.

With the longer distance services to the West of England now being downgraded to DMU operation, will we get a similar number of routine short formations, for no doubt excellent and unavoidable reasons ?
5 car on say the 18-03 or 19-03 from Paddington could be interesting.

Whilst a half train would suffice on the western end of the route at times, a half train at the London end will result in gross overcrowding. Dividing a say Plymouth will be interesting when "computer says no" as has happened.

 

[CMRail]

The over loud beeping is another irritation on the new trains, not in my view a major problem though.
The more serious downgrades are the prevalence of short trains, the lack of a buffet, and the routine absence of reservations.

We have now had about a year of routine short formations on services to Cardiff and Bristol. When I commented on this, some pages back, a number of experts pointed out that little could be done, for a number of no doubt excellent reasons, and that short formations were in fact a positive feature of the flexibility of the new units. Since other wise there would be no train at all.
Short formed units usually had no available trolley, nor any reservations.

With the longer distance services to the West of England now being downgraded to DMU operation, will we get a similar number of routine short formations, for no doubt excellent and unavoidable reasons ?
5 car on say the 18-03 or 19-03 from Paddington could be interesting.

Whilst a half train would suffice on the western end of the route at times, a half train at the London end will result in gross overcrowding. Dividing a say Plymouth will be interesting when "computer says no" as has happened.

I really do respect your opinion.. but I don’t see the need for you to repeat your hates every time you post.

 

[father_jack]

I really do respect your opinion.. but I don’t see the need for you to repeat your hates every time you post.

Disagree. This is an opinion and discussion forum and his points are valid. Your opinion as a idealist/apologist is different to his as a realist, but that makes neither of you wrong.

 

[samuelmorris]

That's quite a hostile way of putting it!

 

[fgwrich]

Hmm, I have a better reason to complain about the 800's.

Their numbers are too long and small. 800.003 is longer than 43003, and the coach numbers whats this 421003 six figured numbering thing about when 42003 would suffice? Then the units. 800.002, 800.302, 802.002 etc all end as 002 on the coach numbers so you know its unit 2 but of which class / batch? At least the HSTs have red line = buffet, yellow line = TF, no line = TS and lots of noise = power car, so simple. lol

Far more important to train spotters than hard seats, breakdowns, pealing vinyls, bleeps or performance etc!

The over loud beeping is another irritation on the new trains, not in my view a major problem though.
The more serious downgrades are the prevalence of short trains, the lack of a buffet, and the routine absence of reservations.

We have now had about a year of routine short formations on services to Cardiff and Bristol. When I commented on this, some pages back, a number of experts pointed out that little could be done, for a number of no doubt excellent reasons, and that short formations were in fact a positive feature of the flexibility of the new units. Since other wise there would be no train at all.
Short formed units usually had no available trolley, nor any reservations.

With the longer distance services to the West of England now being downgraded to DMU operation, will we get a similar number of routine short formations, for no doubt excellent and unavoidable reasons ?
5 car on say the 18-03 or 19-03 from Paddington could be interesting.

Whilst a half train would suffice on the western end of the route at times, a half train at the London end will result in gross overcrowding. Dividing a say Plymouth will be interesting when "computer says no" as has happened.

Actually, there inlies another recent problem that I and many other of my fellow passengers have recent been occurring - Train Formations. With the HSTs and 9 cars, there is at least only 2 formations the trains can be in - First Class at the Country End or First Class at the London end. With the 10 cars, there can now be up to 6 correct and incorrect formations possible. I was standing in Reading station the other day waiting on a train into Paddington, 10 Car IET turned up. Announced as First Class is in coaches 1,2 & 6,7. When the units turned up, the actual formation was F, G,H,I,J + A,B,C,D,E with First Class being in both the London end and Country End of each units. Queue a platform of passengers then having to shuffle around to find the correct coach they are travelling in!

As for the short forms, Funny enough I came across an article yesterday with a rather optimistic quote from a Mr Hopwood "No Trains will leave London Paddington in the Peak Hours with less than 9 Car with the introduction of these trains".

I don't disagree with the replacement of the HSTs, but only by something that at least matches or increases the quality of travel provided. These 800s, as pointed out by many on here, do not match the quality provided and that is why we are not happy with them.

 

[43096]

What did you say?

Is anyone able to compare a 180 to a 800 in terms of acceleration, breaking and noise?

In terms of “breaking” they both break a lot.

Or did you mean “braking”?

 

[Thunderer]

There is an 800/3 on the 1L42 0829 Swansea - Paddington today, which seemed to run into trouble between Baglan and Port Talbot and lost 88 minutes. It's now 99 late off Swindon and due to terminate at Reading - anyone know what happened here?

 

[PHILIPE]

There is an 800/3 on the 1L42 0829 Swansea - Paddington today, which seemed to run into trouble between Baglan and Port Talbot and lost 88 minutes. It's now 99 late off Swindon and due to terminate at Reading - anyone know what happened here?

Freight train failed ahead

 

[CMRail]

Freight train failed ahead

Wow, someone can’t criticise the train for once.

 

[aar0]

Except that most people (excepting the very small and/or flexible) cannot actually use a laptop in a standard class airline-style seat.

I'm 6' 6" and, because of the little metal bar that pulls out, can happily work on my 15" laptop in standard airline style seating in GWR HSTs and IETs.

The rest of the fleet should have been a full size diesel train 9-10 coaches based on the HST concept built to meet 21st century regulations, that is common sense, saving billions in electrification and endless disruption.

And if the new trains last as long as the HSTs have, will you personally guarantee the supply of cheap diesel?

 

[irish_rail]

14.00 off penzance to London yesterday was 5 car, rammed by Plymouth and forced not to call at Tiverton and Taunton later due to gross overcrowding.
My question is why was the 5 car 802 not put onto a Cheltenham service say and a 9 car 800 used on the penzance? The 5 car BTW had an engine out and only just got up Hemerdon doing at best 153 speeds, so a 9 car 800 would not of had performance issues compared with what worked the train.

 

[JN114]

14.00 off penzance to London yesterday was 5 car, rammed by Plymouth and forced not to call at Tiverton and Taunton later due to gross overcrowding.
My question is why was the 5 car 802 not put onto a Cheltenham service say and a 9 car 800 used on the penzance? The 5 car BTW had an engine out and only just got up Hemerdon doing at best 153 speeds, so a 9 car 800 would not of had performance issues compared with what worked the train.

Politics, in short. There’s meant to be a big banging heads together meeting between GWR and Hitachi shortly which should sort these kind of issues out (in theory!) - Hitachi still not meeting unit availability levels required in their contracts, GWR not “balancing” the fleet after disruption leaving depots short for the following days service. And so the wheel turns....

 

[CMRail]

Mainly because Cheltenham isn’t ready for 5 cars at peak and at some off peak times until it goes hourly. Peak 9 cars are essential to all routes.

 

[irish_rail]

Mainly because Cheltenham isn’t ready for 5 cars at peak and at some off peak times until it goes hourly. Peak 9 cars are essential to all routes.

Well maybe , but Plymouth certainly isn't ready for 5 cars on a Friday afternoon and it's a far longer journey from penzance to london than it is from Cheltenham. Priorities seem to be a bit skewed at present........

 

[FGW_DID]

Seeing as we seem to be posting every failure with glee:

1P31 07:44 Great Malvern to London Paddington failed at Hanborough this morning. It was returned to Charlbury, passengers detrained and set went ECS to Worcester for fitters attention.

Oh I should mention the set number……………it was an HST! OC46 - 43185 failed with a battery charger fault!

 

[404250]

Great Malvern to London would be the route most suitable for dodgy trains liable to fail.

 

[jimm]

The over loud beeping is another irritation on the new trains, not in my view a major problem though.
The more serious downgrades are the prevalence of short trains, the lack of a buffet, and the routine absence of reservations.

We have now had about a year of routine short formations on services to Cardiff and Bristol. When I commented on this, some pages back, a number of experts pointed out that little could be done, for a number of no doubt excellent reasons, and that short formations were in fact a positive feature of the flexibility of the new units. Since other wise there would be no train at all.
Short formed units usually had no available trolley, nor any reservations.

With the longer distance services to the West of England now being downgraded to DMU operation, will we get a similar number of routine short formations, for no doubt excellent and unavoidable reasons ?
5 car on say the 18-03 or 19-03 from Paddington could be interesting.

Whilst a half train would suffice on the western end of the route at times, a half train at the London end will result in gross overcrowding. Dividing a say Plymouth will be interesting when "computer says no" as has happened.

Please stop claiming short forms are "routine".

I think I've suggested it before now, but it really is time you looked up the dictionary definition of routine - or just stopped using the word incorrectly.

Since Hitachi finally made 34 to the 36 five-car Class 800 available for passenger service a few weeks ago, the number of short forms has fallen almost to zero, as there is now some sort of making for faults or routine maintenance.

Perhaps you haven't noticed this, or couldn't care lees, as it would mean you would have to come up with a whole new script - here and on another forum, where you keep repeating the same old lines over and over (which, father_jack, is why some people are so bored with broadgage).

On the last four journeys I have made on Class 800s, the digital seat reservation system has been working fine, which wasn't the case earlier in the year.

 

[43096]

Please stop claiming short forms are "routine".

I think I've suggested it before now, but it really is time you looked up the dictionary definition of routine - or just stopped using the word incorrectly.

Since Hitachi finally made 34 to the 36 five-car Class 800 available for passenger service a few weeks ago, the number of short forms has fallen almost to zero, as there is now some sort of making for faults or routine maintenance.

Perhaps you haven't noticed this, or couldn't care lees, as it would mean you would have to come up with a whole new script - here and on another forum, where you keep repeating the same old lines over and over (which, father_jack, is why some people are so bored with broadgage).

On the last four journeys I have made on Class 800s, the digital seat reservation system has been working fine, which wasn't the case earlier in the year.

5 vice 10 has been regular since the new trains started - it has improved, but is not exactly rare (1733 Padd-Weston is so formed as I write).

You persist with this "all is wonderful, nothing to see here" routine, despite all the evidence to the contrary. It's all very well Hitachi having delivered 34 of the 36 800/0s, but they should have done that back in February (8 months late and counting) and they should have delivered the last 800/3 in July (3 months late and counting).

 

[Clarence Yard]

Actually, with the NR delay to the test section, they shouldn’t have. The delivery clock gets reset by that delay.

What has been so disappointing so far has been the overall reliability and those functions that just have not worked from the start. To go through nearly 60 software upgrades and still stuff doesn’t work properly is lamentable.

Although it is still appalling, the fact that 5 cars could cover for 9 or 10 cars has allowed for a reduced cancellation rate than what would have occurred if they had all been 9 car. Then it would have been a front page of the papers job and justifiably so.

 

[Bornin1980s]

With the longer distance services to the West of England now being downgraded to DMU operation, will we get a similar number of routine short formations, for no doubt excellent and unavoidable reasons ?
5 car on say the 18-03 or 19-03 from Paddington could be interesting.

Whilst a half train would suffice on the western end of the route at times, a half train at the London end will result in gross overcrowding. Dividing a say Plymouth will be interesting when "computer says no" as has happened.

Did you just call the IETs DMUs?

 

[swt_passenger]

Did you just call the IETs DMUs?

He’s been doing so for over 4 years in this thread and unlikely to change now...