What happened to plans for Eurostar at Stratford International?

[Jorge Da Silva]

Okay a couple of questions. Firstly, Are there any plans to use the international platforms at Stratford International? Secondly, I have seen a number of southeastern high speed services stop there but they are not in passenger service. Why do they do this? Thanks.

 

[K.o.R]

Were they ever planning to use them for international services? There's a conspicuous lack of space to put a border control area at that station.

 

[swt_passenger]

RTT shows one up ECS train that sits in a platform for a few minutes, it seems to be overtaken by another ECS. One down train runs through a platform ECS but doesn’t appear to stop.

 

[Clip]

Were they ever planning to use them for international services?

They certainly were and I think Westfield kicked up a stink about it not happening too

There's a conspicuous lack of space to put a border control area at that station.

I believe the large concourse would have become part of border control at one end a bit like the small section at St Pancakes

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

RTT shows one up ECS train that sits in a platform for a few minutes, it seems to be overtaken by another ECS. One down train runs through a platform ECS but doesn’t appear to stop.

Why though? Is it just in case they need the platforms in the future?

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

Were they ever planning to use them for international services? There's a conspicuous lack of space to put a border control area at that station.

I think from what I hear it was meant to be for Regional Eurostar (i.e north of London to Glasgow/Edinburgh or Cardiff etc) so was never meant to be used for Eurostar services to St Pancras.

 

[Doomotron]

I think from what I hear it was meant to be for Regional Eurostar (i.e north of London to Glasgow/Edinburgh or Cardiff etc) so was never meant to be used for Eurostar services to St Pancras.

Yep, that's it. Just it never happened.

 

[swt_passenger]

Why though? Is it just in case they need the platforms in the future?

Answering your second point, I thought being overtaken was an obvious enough reason to have to sit in a platform. No idea why the other ECS train needs to use a platform line. Maybe it’s just a rusty rail move. Aren’t the international platforms 1 and 4 an unsuitable height for domestic services, they were temporarily modified during the Olympics.

 

[fat_boy_pete]

Were they ever planning to use them for international services? There's a conspicuous lack of space to put a border control area at that station.

There is a full border control layout in the building, but it has never been fitted out.

 

[Kite159]

Answering your second point, I thought being overtaken was an obvious enough reason to have to sit in a platform. No idea why the other ECS train needs to use a platform line. Maybe it’s just a rusty rail move. Aren’t the international platforms 1 and 4 an unsuitable height for domestic services, they were temporarily modified during the Olympics.

Platform 1 & 4 are at a very low height, when I was on a 395 tour a couple years ago which called at the international platforms, it was local door only and the ramp used due to the large step down, not sure if this picture will show it:

 

[K.o.R]

There is a full border control layout in the building, but it has never been fitted out.

I admit the only "building" I remember at that station was the escalator/lift and bridge across into Westfield. Must have failed an observation roll.

 

[Doomotron]

Platform 1 & 4 are at a very low height, when I was on a 395 tour a couple years ago which called at the international platforms, it was local door only and the ramp used due to the large step down, not sure if this picture will show it:

It might just be the perspective but that honestly doesn't seem that bad.

 

[K.o.R]

It might just be the perspective but that honestly doesn't seem that bad.

You would wonder how they managed to screw that up.

 

[hwl]

You would wonder how they managed to screw that up.

Deliberate to match UIC rather than UK standards

 

[EM2]

There is a full border control layout in the building, but it has never been fitted out.

It would basically be the same layout as at Ebbsfleet, with the 'airside' bit being on the other side of the atrium.

 

[Kite159]

It might just be the perspective but that honestly doesn't seem that bad.

This one might be better:


However I can think of some more stations where the step is as large (New Clee, Kildonan)

 

[w1bbl3]

Were they ever planning to use them for international services? There's a conspicuous lack of space to put a border control area at that station.

There is actually plenty of room behind the hoardings and in the terminal building the other side of the escalators. The original plans had the blue bits as international departures and the orange as international arrivals. The future walkthroughs from the main concourse are noticeable by the lack of retail units in those spaces.

 

[AM9]

Platform 1 & 4 are at a very low height, when I was on a 395 tour a couple years ago which called at the international platforms, it was local door only and the ramp used due to the large step down, not sure if this picture will show it:

During the 2012 Olympics, Platforms 1 & 4 were fitted with temporary raised platforms so that the class 395s could stop there doubling the number of passengers that could be set down and picked up. It all worked very well.

 

[dk1]

It's just never been economically worthwhile. The cost of security is so high & the will to slow down Eurostar any further simply isn't there.

 

[K.o.R]

Deliberate to match UIC rather than UK standards

So basically "stuff you" to people who can't handle big steps?

 

[hwl]

So basically "stuff you" to people who can't handle big steps?

Yep.
Because all the continental stock has (fold down in the case of Eurostar) steps to deal with that issue. A side effect of standardisation and a very good reason we shouldn't use UIC platform heights on HS2 but go for the levl; platform approach on Japanese and Chinese HS.

 

[387star]

Strange station. Very concrete
Ebbsfleet always seems deserted too although with a huge car park I guess it has its moments
Does Eurostar still run 373s by the way? All seem to be new units now

 

[K.o.R]

Charming.

I was on an older train in Brussels recently and, while it was a gorgeous train to travel on, big comfy seats etc, getting on it required climbing stairs about 50cm wide and at a 50° angle. Not a cakewalk even for the able-bodied, especially getting down again.

 

[jopsuk]

An issue is that the track layout is such that it would only have been useful for the abandoned "North of London" services- or HS2 through trains, before that link got cancelled. It is of very little use as a "budget" type terminus (think SNCF TGV Ouigo) as to reverse requires either multiple reversing moves to shunt across, using the Temple mills depot link part way through, or to run all the way to St Pancras and back. If it had been built with a reversing siding accessible from both international platforms to the west of the station it would potentially have been useful.

But ultimately, it is this country's insistence on secured borders that made the idea of services beyond London unworkably expensive and thus killed the utility of Stratford as an international station.

 

[Mikey C]

Strange station. Very concrete

Yes, pretty hideous really!

 

[K.o.R]

secured borders

No joke. Have you seen the ridiculous fences, gates and razor wire (!) around the tracks to Platforms 1 & 2 at Brussels Midi?

 

[jopsuk]

No joke. Have you seen the ridiculous fences, gates and razor wire (!) around the tracks to Platforms 1 & 2 at Brussels Midi?

I've not. But I've been stuck in border control queues at Portsmouth for over an hour. And I've paid attention to the rhetoric of the politicians for years.

 

[FQTV]

I admit the only "building" I remember at that station was the escalator/lift and bridge across into Westfield. Must have failed an observation roll.

From what you describe, you used the (generally) peak-only route over the gatelined footbridge that leads to Hitchcock Lane and Westfield, at the East end of the platforms.

The station itself is at the West end of the platforms and houses the ticket office, shops and car rental facilities. Southeastern use part of the space for offices but a huge part of the building is unused and unfitted-out; this latter part being where security, border control and passenger lounges would have been located.

 

[dk1]

Yes as said above it sounds like you are talking about the peak only access bridge. The main building with DLR station are near the Waitrose/Premier Inn end of Westfield

 

[Maurice3000]

But ultimately, it is this country's insistence on secured borders that made the idea of services beyond London unworkably expensive and thus killed the utility of Stratford as an international station.

If you ask me, that is just a lot of rhetoric, UK politicians like to talk about securing the borders but they never get round to actually taking it seriously. It's just talk. Look at Theresa May, all talk about borders while decimating the Border Force.

Anyway, that is all not that relevant. Even if the UK were willing/allowed to join the Schengen area and passport control would be abolished the security for the Channel Tunnel would remain. The Channel Tunnel is just too much of an attractive terrorist target to let passengers on the train without scanning their stuff. It's the scanning infrastructure with required segregated waiting areas behind the scanner that take up a lot of space and cost.