Aviation Discussion

[Peter Mugridge]

How many are St Athan.

They're being parted out so probably not as many as have been flown there!

 

[atillathehunn]

Your comment here raises a philosophic question: at what point is your maxim true?

If a plane flies there and then the engines and flight controls removed, can you now say there are fewer there than before? Since now, without these things, it cannot fly and is therefore not a plane.

Or should it be aesthetic? It still looks discernibly like a 767 so therefore the same number are still there, even though they have had critical parts for flight removed for parts?

Or maybe I should lay off the sauce.

On another note, flew quite a bit with 767s over the summer, including two TATLs. Interesting plane.

 

[gsnedders]

Kinda weird that I'm never gonna have the weird experience of getting on a domestic shuttle flight at LHR and having the momentary confusion at walking onto a widebody again! (I mean, at the outstations it was always less weird; there was much less fear of "where is this plane going?"!)

 

[Crawley Ben]

Norwegian's new Gatwick to Rio De Janeiro flight is now available to book. Fares start at £240 one way. Service will be 4x weekly, starting 31st March 2019.

Cheers

Ben

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

Your comment here raises a philosophic question: at what point is your maxim true?

If a plane flies there and then the engines and flight controls removed, can you now say there are fewer there than before? Since now, without these things, it cannot fly and is therefore not a plane.

Or should it be aesthetic? It still looks discernibly like a 767 so therefore the same number are still there, even though they have had critical parts for flight removed for parts?

Not too dissimilar to the argument about locos in a scrapyard. As for aircraft it's worth remembering that many parts can, in theory at least, be removed during maintenance: this would include engines, ailerons, rudders etc. As such I would suggest that an aircraft "ceases to be" once actual cutting up starts as such action is irreversible. If the fuselage, wings, tail and tailplane are all intact then it's still a plane. The one grey area is landing gear; I have seen plenty of old aircraft in storage/scrapping locations still intact as per the above criteria but with landing gear replaced by stacks of pallets. It must be difficult to reach such a situation, short of using a high capacity crane, without damaging the locating points for the gear making replacement all but impossible.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Well, I would have thought that they'd be removing the re-usable parts pretty quickly and then tearing the remnants apart as quickly as possible to make room for the next arrival?

 

[Crawley Ben]

Reported elsewhere today that Norwegian are switching airports which they currently serve in Florida and California respectively.

Gatwick to Oakland is being switched San Francisco as of 31st March 2019.

Gatwick to Fort Lauderdale is being switched to Miami as of 31st March 2019 too as well.

Cheers

Ben

 

[Crawley Ben]

Iceland Air's proposed takeover of fellow Icelandic airline WOW Air has fallen through.

The latter has cut their fleet from 20 aircraft to 16 & have returned the aircraft to their owners (believe 2 are now stored at Shannon Airport). They have cancelled a number of routes in North America and are reported to be in a difficult situation financially.

Could we be about to see another Low Cost Carrier collapse soon after Primera Air?

Cheers

Ben

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

Iceland Air's proposed takeover of fellow Icelandic airline WOW Air has fallen through.

The latter has cut their fleet from 20 aircraft to 16 & have returned the aircraft to their owners (believe 2 are now stored at Shannon Airport). They have cancelled a number of routes in North America and are reported to be in a difficult situation financially.

Could we be about to see another Low Cost Carrier collapse soon after Primera Air?

Cheers

Ben

Next 24 hours will likely give an answer. WOW shareholders meeting is tomorrow and salary payments are apparently also due. A320s TF-BRO and TF-SIS are now stored at Shannon with A330s TF-LUV and TF-WOW stored at Lourdes. Seems that these aircraft have been repossessed by the lessors. This morning's bank of European departures all left Keflavik as scheduled but with North American schedules already being pared back with more cuts to follow their business model appears to be unravelling.

 

[Butts]

Just looking for a little bit of advice from some fellow Aviators who are a little more "well heeled" than my good self.
Travelling from Heathrow to Luxembourg on BA in early December for my latest fag run - wanted to go out and back in a day.

0810 out and 1915 Return - been offered the chance to upgrade to Club Europe for £59 each way.

Firstly is this a good deal and will it go any lower before I travel in 3 weeks - I paid less than £70 return for original Economy Ticket.

Last time I travelled Club Europe was over 10 years ago from Gatwick to Iceland and back with my Daughter.

Remember The Lounge Access, Champagne, Up front Seating etc.

Bearing in mind it is £20 to book an exit seat, fast track security, free grub and booze in Lounge and on plane I am tempted.

I should explain to get from Newport to Heathrow I am catching a Coach at 0225 and arriving at 0550 on the morning of the flight. Going back I am doing the same in the Evening of the same day.

Would be nice to have chill out time in the Terminal 3 Lounge after that overnight National Express outward journey and get some free Breakfast and a shower? Good way to kill a Couple of Hours ?

Similarly once I have secured my stock in Luxembourg can be fed and inebriated for a couple of hours before the return to London and marathon coach trip back to Newport.

As I am going to be on the go for 24 Hours solid is £118 a sensible investment ? - pre x-mas treat !!

 

[Butts]

Well I've shelled out my £118 -get the champagne on Ice !!!

Hopefully accompanied by a few decent Malts !!

Was suprised you can't book your seat there and then without paying - looks like I'm in "Peasant Club Europe".

Still at least I know there will be no "piggy in the middle"

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

Turbulent couple of days.

On Wednesday Small Planet, having already closed its various subsidiaries, lost its Lithuanian AOC meaning it is no more.

Yesterday Air France announced it's shutting down the Joon operation with staff returning to the parent airline. The future of the Hop! brand is also in doubt.

During Thursday evening WOW's ground handler at Keflavik laid off 237 staff due to the ongoing uncertainty surrounding the airline. Then came the news, confirmed this morning, that Indigo Partners, a US based investment fund specialising in aviation, wanted to take a stake in WOW air. The significance being that Indigo already has significant stakes in a number of LCCs, namely Wizz Air (Hungary), Frontier Airlines (US), Volaris (Mexico) and JetSMART (Chile). Much speculation about possible links across that group through Iceland. Also worth noting, that despite being LCCs, Frontier and Volaris have a code-share partnership. And Indigo has an order in place with Airbus for 430 A320neos for use by the various airlines. Due diligence to follow so not a done deal yet.

However no news yet on the future ownership of Flybe.

 

[CC 72100]

Yesterday Air France announced it's shutting down the Joon operation with staff returning to the parent airline.

Well that lasted long then....

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

Well that lasted long then....

Did we really expect anything else from Air France?

 

[CC 72100]

Did we really expect anything else from Air France?

Well quite - a company that seems to be too monolithic to actually change and when it actually attempts to (equivalent of deckchairs on the titanic) ends up in a major industrial dispute that in a superbly French way results in the HR director getting his shirt ripped by an employee.

Definitely a prime candidate for the definition of one of these lumbering national carriers who are so far off the pace in 2018 its difficult to see how things can get better.

 

[atillathehunn]

Well I've shelled out my £118 -get the champagne on Ice !!!

Hopefully accompanied by a few decent Malts !!

Was suprised you can't book your seat there and then without paying - looks like I'm in "Peasant Club Europe".

Still at least I know there will be no "piggy in the middle"

Assuming you definitely get the lounge access, this is probably worth it as a Christmas treat, in the LHR-LUX direction definitely. Why not enjoy the travel if that money isn't going to hurt you by its absence. And after a coach ride through the night, you deserve a bit of luxury.

There are no special seats for CE, just no one in the middle. Even on BA Club World you have to pay to select a seat, so you're not in peasant CE. Not sure about F as my budget (or, more specifically, my employer's budget) doesn't stretch that far. The price can be quite substantial. You are guaranteed no middle seat regardless. If you get the aisle, take comfort in the champagne bottle. If in the window, enjoy the view of the channel through the tinted lens... of the champagne bottle.

 

[atillathehunn]

Did we really expect anything else from Air France?

There was no real advantage to Joon, and it seemed like no real benefit in terms of a lower cost base either. Just seemed to be AF for Millennials. And when they mentioned in the marketing "it's AF for Millennials", the project was dead. Don't tell people you're marketing to that you're marketing to them! Especially when they are the group of people who distrust companies and advertisements! Morons. LEVEL, while a stupid name with a stupid livery, at least has a cost advantage and knows how to appeal to their target market.

Their labour issues mean they will never be a competitive airline. Why book with them when the competition is just as good and less prone to going on strike? Which is a shame really, the food on board was good (with decent wine even in economy) and the cabin on the few flights I took were clean and pleasant, with staff were not bad at all.

Still, I have SkyTeam status now thanks to spending most of September in an airline seat (I took 12 long haul flights in September and early October; my back is not the same) so AF are still a contender.

 

[atillathehunn]

Turbulent couple of days.

On Wednesday Small Planet, having already closed its various subsidiaries, lost its Lithuanian AOC meaning it is no more.

Yesterday Air France announced it's shutting down the Joon operation with staff returning to the parent airline. The future of the Hop! brand is also in doubt.

During Thursday evening WOW's ground handler at Keflavik laid off 237 staff due to the ongoing uncertainty surrounding the airline. Then came the news, confirmed this morning, that Indigo Partners, a US based investment fund specialising in aviation, wanted to take a stake in WOW air. The significance being that Indigo already has significant stakes in a number of LCCs, namely Wizz Air (Hungary), Frontier Airlines (US), Volaris (Mexico) and JetSMART (Chile). Much speculation about possible links across that group through Iceland. Also worth noting, that despite being LCCs, Frontier and Volaris have a code-share partnership. And Indigo has an order in place with Airbus for 430 A320neos for use by the various airlines. Due diligence to follow so not a done deal yet.

However no news yet on the future ownership of Flybe.

Busy few days indeed. I have been out of the loop somewhere near Algeria - what happened to the IcelandAir deal?

 

[Butts]

Assuming you definitely get the lounge access, this is probably worth it as a Christmas treat, in the LHR-LUX direction definitely. Why not enjoy the travel if that money isn't going to hurt you by its absence. And after a coach ride through the night, you deserve a bit of luxury.

There are no special seats for CE, just no one in the middle. Even on BA Club World you have to pay to select a seat, so you're not in peasant CE. Not sure about F as my budget (or, more specifically, my employer's budget) doesn't stretch that far. The price can be quite substantial. You are guaranteed no middle seat regardless. If you get the aisle, take comfort in the champagne bottle. If in the window, enjoy the view of the channel through the tinted lens... of the champagne bottle.

I do definitely get Lounge Access in London and Luxembourg - to put it into perspective I checked how much the Club Europe Flight was on the Day I am travelling via the BA Website.

£615 return !!! - I have paid about £180 odd return so this is a genuine bargain. (Forget Black Friday)

It's almost like an Advanced First Railway Ticket - all the perks for a fraction of the price. The main difference is you can't book it in advance.

I guess the plane must be fairly empty in order to warrant an offer like this. It only appeared when I went into Manage my Booking.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

Busy few days indeed. I have been out of the loop somewhere near Algeria - what happened to the IcelandAir deal?

During the due diligence process Icelandair realised they couldn't make the numbers work though the precise reason is not clear. I have seen a suggestion that local politics compelled Icelandair to at least have a look but also that they may be more interested into putting money into the tie-up with Cabo Verde and possibly developing a Keflavik style hub there to serve West Africa. Could all just be hot air of course...

Further update on Joon is that a final decision has not been taken. But it's clear which way the wind is blowing.

 

[robk23oxf]

I do definitely get Lounge Access in London and Luxembourg - to put it into perspective I checked how much the Club Europe Flight was on the Day I am travelling via the BA Website.

£615 return !!! - I have paid about £180 odd return so this is a genuine bargain. (Forget Black Friday)

It's almost like an Advanced First Railway Ticket - all the perks for a fraction of the price. The main difference is you can't book it in advance.

I guess the plane must be fairly empty in order to warrant an offer like this. It only appeared when I went into Manage my Booking.

I often upgrade to get the tier points as it's a cost effective way of maintaining my silver status. It's actually cheaper to buy a Euro Traveller ticket and then upgrade than to buy a Club Europe ticket at the time of booking. I flew in club from Edinburgh to London last month and there were 3 of us in that cabin. Of course the cabin can be re-configured so that they can offer fewer or more business class seats but there are normally around 20 seats (the first 5 rows) in the Club Europe cabin.

 

[GaryMcEwan]

Just out of curiosity, how strict are Ryanair with the baggage allowance now that they have amended the sizes yet again. I'm due to fly out to Dublin on Tuesday and the bag I'll be hoping to take is 57x42x18, but their guidelines are 55x40x20 as per the Priority & 2 Cabin Bags. I'm hoping that it'll squeeze into the bag sizer before I go through security...

 

[Bletchleyite]

Just out of curiosity, how strict are Ryanair with the baggage allowance now that they have amended the sizes yet again. I'm due to fly out to Dublin on Tuesday and the bag I'll be hoping to take is 57x42x18, but their guidelines are 55x40x20 as per the Priority & 2 Cabin Bags. I'm hoping that it'll squeeze into the bag sizer before I go through security...

If it is soft sided (e.g. a holdall) you will almost certainly get away with it (but no guarantees, it is Ryanair). If it is hard sided or semi-hard-sided i.e. a trolley case or similar, no chance.

I'm surprised anyone sells a hand luggage type bag which is 57cm in the longest dimension, as no airline at all accepts over 56cm x 45cm x 25cm i.e. IATA size. Did you measure it right?

 

[atillathehunn]

Just out of curiosity, how strict are Ryanair with the baggage allowance now that they have amended the sizes yet again. I'm due to fly out to Dublin on Tuesday and the bag I'll be hoping to take is 57x42x18, but their guidelines are 55x40x20 as per the Priority & 2 Cabin Bags. I'm hoping that it'll squeeze into the bag sizer before I go through security...

Sounds like an odd size bag, I agree. Anecdotal, but I haven't seen them check the size of bags in quite a long time now. Of course, now having said this I will surely get checked on Tuesday...

 

[atillathehunn]

Tbh I think if they started being strict with bag size, on top of everything else, they might have a riot on their hands.

 

[GaryMcEwan]

If it is soft sided (e.g. a holdall) you will almost certainly get away with it (but no guarantees, it is Ryanair). If it is hard sided or semi-hard-sided i.e. a trolley case or similar, no chance.

I'm surprised anyone sells a hand luggage type bag which is 57cm in the longest dimension, as no airline at all accepts over 56cm x 45cm x 25cm i.e. IATA size. Did you measure it right?

It is soft sided so I could well be a couple of cm's off in trying to measure it right. It's like a laptop carrier, only bigger.

 

[VioletEclipse]

Ryanair's (already damaged) reputation is crumbling, so that could well start a riot, which is not what Ryanair want!

 

[Butts]

Just out of curiosity, how strict are Ryanair with the baggage allowance now that they have amended the sizes yet again. I'm due to fly out to Dublin on Tuesday and the bag I'll be hoping to take is 57x42x18, but their guidelines are 55x40x20 as per the Priority & 2 Cabin Bags. I'm hoping that it'll squeeze into the bag sizer before I go through security...

On my recent fag runs from Stansted to Luxembourg I have seen people get on unchallenged with almost "hold sized" Cases.....

But you never know !!

 

[GaryMcEwan]

On my recent fag runs from Stansted to Luxembourg I have seen people get on unchallenged with almost "hold sized" Cases.....

But you never know !!

Well this is my question really. Other colleagues of mine that have flew with Ryanair have taken much larger bags into the cabin without being checked.

It'll just be my luck that I take a bigger bag and get collared for it.

 

[atillathehunn]

Well this is my question really. Other colleagues of mine that have flew with Ryanair have taken much larger bags into the cabin without being checked.

It'll just be my luck that I take a bigger bag and get collared for it.

I think you'll be OK. On the balance of probability. I'm refusing to fly them at the moment, but I have been at gates where Ryanair has been boarding. The chaos (this was at Brussels Zaventem) of the new system where everybody is priority meant there was no chance to even see the line separator let alone the bag size means I reckon you will be ok.