Questions regarding the rules for purchasing train tickets in the Netherlands.

[swt class 450]

I just had a few questions about the rules regarding purchasing train tickets in the Netherlands. I have been to the Netherlands quite a few times and have always wondered this.

• Do the Guards carry ticket machines and can you buy your ticket onboard the train from the Guard?

• None of the NS ticket machines at any station accept banknotes but many accept coins. If you are at an unstaffed station with no ticket office and you only have banknotes on you (but no coins) then are you allowed to board without a ticket and buy one onboard or at your destination?

• There are many stations in the Netherlands where all the ticket machines are all card only. There are no ticket machines at some stations that accept cash. If you are at an unstaffed station with no ticket office and you only have cash on you (but no card) then are you allowed to board without a ticket and buy one onboard or at your destination?

• There are a couple of stations in the Netherlands where there are no ticket machines to purchase tickets. The only machines are for topping up smartcards that you already have. Hoevelaken and Barneveld Zuid are examples of this. If you don't already have a smartcard then are you allowed to board without a ticket and buy one onboard or at your destination?

• If you are at an unstaffed station and all the ticket machines are broken then are you allowed to board without a ticket and buy one onboard or at your destination?

I was looking on the NS website (even on the Dutch version) but i can't seem to find any information about these rules.

If anyone knows the answers to these questions that would be great. Many thanks.

 

[AlexNL]

The rule is: buy before you board.

If you do not have a valid ticket when a guard comes by, they will write you an unpaid fare notice. The UFN includes a € 50 fine (pre-printed), a guard can not decide not to charge this fine.

Once you've received the UFN by post you can contact customer services and ask for the € 50 fine to be refunded. It's at the discretion of the customer services employee whether or not this will be the case.

 

[swt class 450]

Interesting. Thanks for the info. I have always wondered about this. I am surprised they can't sell one onboard for occasions like these when the passenger is unable to purchase a ticket before boarding. They certainly seem to make it a lot harder to purchase tickets in the Netherlands compared to other countries with so many card only machines and the few ones that do accept cash being coins only.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Interesting. Thanks for the info. I have always wondered about this. I am surprised they can't sell one onboard for occasions like these when the passenger is unable to purchase a ticket before boarding. They certainly seem to make it a lot harder to purchase tickets in the Netherlands compared to other countries with so many card only machines and the few ones that do accept cash being coins only.

Indeed, their entire public transport system is incredibly unfriendly to the non-Dutch, at least in terms of payment facilities.

To be fair, London is broadly similar, in particular with regard to child fares.

 

[swt class 450]

Almost everyone in the Netherlands seems to use a smartcard on public transport so the locals seem quite used to it. Although it is very expensive at 7.50EUR (and that is only for an empty card with no balance).

I believe all of their buses everywhere in the Netherlands have now completely stopped accepting cash. I would say that the Netherlands and Sweden are the worst countries for passengers who wish to use cash (or only have cash on them). Both of these countries have pretty much completely gotten rid of cash on all of their buses and are making it difficult to use cash on their trains.

Although in London you can just get a free ride if you don't have cash. I see it happen all the time. If you approach the driver and try to pay with cash and say that you don't have a contactless card or oyster card then they just give you a free ride. It seems like a lot of the locals (who probably do have contactless cards and oyster cards) have found out about this and use it to get free travel every day on London buses. At least this is just in London for now rather than the entire country like the Netherlands and Sweden are.

It is a shame that the Netherlands hasn't kept better facilities for cash especially considering that they get a lot of tourists who are likely to need to use cash.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It is a shame that the Netherlands hasn't kept better facilities for cash especially considering that they get a lot of tourists who are likely to need to use cash.

I don't agree on cash (I prefer to use card internationally too), but what is an issue is acceptance of international cards in NL.

 

[SHD]

I don't agree on cash (I prefer to use card internationally too), but what is an issue is acceptance of international cards in NL.

NS have taken a small step forward, they now accept Visa/Mastercards at TVMs, but they charge you €0.50 for the privilege.

Yet, if you fancy buying Dutch food (*) at Albert Heijn... well they will not accept your Visa/Mastercard (except at a very limited number of shops).

(*) It is not my business to pass judgement on other people's food preferences, obviously

 

[sprunt]

Yet, if you fancy buying Dutch food (*) at Albert Heijn... well they will not accept your Visa/Mastercard (except at a very limited number of shops).

Yes, this is annoying - I asked why and was told "We don't accept credit cards." but not everything issued by Visa is a credit card, outside the Netherlands anyway. The ones where they do accept them seem to be the convenience stores, where they don't accept cash.

The best way to round the obstacles they put in front of foreigners buying tickets that I've found is using the NS app - you can avoid the €1 not having an OV card penalty as well.

 

[AlexNL]

I am surprised they can't sell one onboard for occasions like these when the passenger is unable to purchase a ticket before boarding.

On domestic trains you'll get an UFN by default, but I think it's possible to pay in cash (or card) on the international trains. In the past it was possible to buy a ticket on board of any train, but due to the safety risks involved in handling cash the decision was made to stop doing that.

If you're a tourist you may be offered the opportunity to pay in cash at the spot, but this is at the guard's discretion. If you are offered that opportunity and decide to pay on the spot, you still have to pay the € 50 fine in addition to the regular fare. It won't be possible to lodge an appeal, unlike with an UFN.

For tourists, the most cost-effective solution would be to buy an e-ticket through www.ns.nl or the NS app prior to the journey. You can pay with a credit card, and you can choose to load the ticket into the NS app.

They certainly seem to make it a lot harder to purchase tickets in the Netherlands compared to other countries with so many card only machines and the few ones that do accept cash being coins only.

It goes hand in hand with the Dutch reluctance towards cash in general. People don't like having cash in their wallets, shops don't like having to deal with cash, and even among friends it's common to send each other money by bank transfer. It's not unheard of for a Dutch shop to be "alleen pinnen" (card payments only).

 

[Bungle965]

I don't agree on cash (I prefer to use card internationally too), but what is an issue is acceptance of international cards in NL.

NS are getting better, you can now use cards on their website to book tickets. However that doesn't seem to have been replicated in the app yet.
Sam

 

[ainsworth74]

NS are getting better, you can now use cards on their website to book tickets. However that doesn't seem to have been replicated in the app yet.
Sam

I used my UK bank Mastercard credit card to buy tickets via the app.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It goes hand in hand with the Dutch reluctance towards cash in general. People don't like having cash in their wallets, shops don't like having to deal with cash, and even among friends it's common to send each other money by bank transfer. It's not unheard of for a Dutch shop to be "alleen pinnen" (card payments only).

I've no problem with that, indeed I'd be quite happy if the UK went that way as well, and I always pay by (Mastercard debit, usually) card whenever it is an option. But the key problem with the Netherlands is that they use their own "PINpas" system which is I think sort-of based on Eurocheque cards (as Germany was for a long time) and thus isn't compatible with the Visa and Mastercard based credit and debit card systems used just about everywhere else in the world. And Amex? That definitely won't do nicely!

For a country that is quite small and so internationally-focused (demonstrated by many things but not least the fact that English is spoken better there than in much of England), this is one aspect that is even more bizarre than Germany's obsession with cash (and the correct change).

 

[Bungle965]

I used my UK bank Mastercard credit card to buy tickets via the app.

Hmm, last time I tried that (I believe I used Monzo) it rejected it.
Sam

 

[AlexNL]

But the key problem with the Netherlands is that they use their own "PINpas" system which is I think sort-of based on Eurocheque cards (as Germany was for a long time) and thus isn't compatible with the Visa and Mastercard based credit and debit card systems used just about everywhere else in the world. And Amex? That definitely won't do nicely!

The original "PIN" system has been abolished per January 1st, 2012. All debit cards are now either Mastercard's Maestro system or Visa's V Pay. The words "pinpas" (bank card), "pinnen" (to pay with card) and "pinkassa" (card only register) have stuck around, as they have become verbs just like "Googling" or "Photoshopping".

Amex acceptance is rather low, indeed, due to high transaction fees.

For a country that is quite small and so internationally-focused (demonstrated by many things but not least the fact that English is spoken better there than in much of England), this is one aspect that is even more bizarre than Germany's obsession with cash (and the correct change).

The reason for credit card acceptance to be low in the Netherlands (although it is on the rise) is probably a cultural thing: Dutch people see credit cards as a debt, and generally shy away from buying everyday items (groceries, train tickets) on credit.

Add to that higher transaction fees for credit cards, and it's easy to see why most retailers do not offer credit cards (although their terminals are equipped for it). The same can be seen online: many Dutch webshops offer iDEAL (direct bank transfer) as the only payment method, despite credit cards being the global standard.

Something similar applies to German speaking countries... they're still a very cash-reliant society, among others for privacy reasons. Imagine my surprise when I was in a Subway in Vienna, buying a sandwich, and I was told: nur Bargeld. Cash only.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I can understand re credit cards, but the issue is that for most of the English speaking world debit cards are processed via the credit card systems so are MasterCards and Visa cards the same.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

For a country that is quite small and so internationally-focused (demonstrated by many things but not least the fact that English is spoken better there than in much of England), this is one aspect that is even more bizarre than Germany's obsession with cash (and the correct change).

Just because you prefer not to deal with cash doesn't make a national preference to carry on doing so in any way bizarre, just different. Frankly I would prefer that both cash and cards continue to be used side-by-side in order to maintain customer choice. Insistence on avoiding cash is needlessly inconveniencing people who are uncomfortable with card transactions: there are good reasons why some feel that way. Though I don't mind a (very) small surcharge if a business can genuinely justify it.

 

[404250]

If you are on a train using an OV chipkaart does a guard check it in some way during the journey?

 

[Spoorslag '70]

If you are on a train using an OV chipkaart does a guard check it in some way during the journey?

Yes! They have a device called the "Railpocket" (nowadays just a smartphone), which can read the NFC chip and show balance, selected class, any products, check-ins and check-outs etc.
https://community.ns.nl/overige-producten-6/alles-over-de-railpocket-35755

I personally never had an issue with my German Maestro when over the border - except that contactless does not work for some reason.

 

[Esker-pades]

When I was in the Netherlands (the University Wind Band was on tour to Utrecht for a long weekend), I had a free afternoon which I wanted to use on the railway. I was lucky that I started in Utrecht Centraal where there was a nice big ticket office so that I could purchase my ticket with cash and get a cheaper fare (Holland Off-Peak rather than a return from Utrecht to Stavoren). All the machines were card only (as far as I could tell) and I wasn't prepared to use my English bank card and get charged a fairly horrible exchange rate. I'm really glad that I didn't have to navigate the ticket machines at an unstaffed station.

My plan originally was to spend an afternoon on the tram network in Utrecht, but their ticket machines were just as awful, and wouldn't even accept my card existed.

 

[rg177]

Oddly I was merrily using my Visa Debit in Albert Heijn (and anywhere for that matter) last year. Never rejected.

 

[route101]

There was a supermarket in Amsterdam which was card only , i only realised at the till.

As for cards abroad , costly to use for small purchases as itsan extra £2 each time you pay

 

[ainsworth74]

As for cards abroad , costly to use for small purchases as itsan extra £2 each time you pay

Only if you use a terrible card! My Halifax Clarity credit card has no fees and gives a near perfect exchange rate. Monzo's debit card has no fees on spending, gets a near perfect exchange rate and allows up to £200 of withdrawals overseas before charging a fee.

It pays to shop around and not just use your default debit card.

 

[route101]

Only if you use a terrible card! My Halifax Clarity credit card has no fees and gives a near perfect exchange rate. Monzo's debit card has no fees on spending, gets a near perfect exchange rate and allows up to £200 of withdrawals overseas before charging a fee.

It pays to shop around and not just use your default debit card.

I have a Bank of Scotland Card . No plans to get a Credit Card. Will look around.

Hoping one day like the no roaming fees for mobiles , there will be no fees for cards

 

[swt class 450]

I much preferred the days when cash was the normal way of payment in all countries around the world. It's so much simpler than using a card and you don't have all these fees to worry about.

 

[ainsworth74]

I much preferred the days when cash was the normal way of payment in all countries around the world. It's so much simpler than using a card and you don't have all these fees to worry about.

I found the hour I spent on research and applying for a credit card with no fees and a perfect exchange rate worked out simpler and cheaper than having to go to a Bureau de change buying, in advance, all my currency or faffing with Travellers Cheques.

But maybe that's just me...

 

[ooo]

It's so much simpler than using a card

Surely it's much easier just to be able to use the same card in every country/currency rather than having to get different types of money in different countries

 

[Bletchleyite]

I much preferred the days when cash was the normal way of payment in all countries around the world. It's so much simpler than using a card and you don't have all these fees to worry about.

I much prefer the days when card is the normal way of payment in most countries around the world. It's so much simpler than having to change cash and worry about exchange rates, and my bank, Monzo, only charges fees above a quite generous limit, and even those fees are entirely reasonable when compared to poor rates you inevitably get changing cash.

If I do need cash, I draw it out of a cashpoint in small amounts. And as for travellers' cheques, thank goodness those are dead.

 

[175mph]

Almost everyone in the Netherlands seems to use a smartcard on public transport so the locals seem quite used to it. Although it is very expensive at 7.50EUR (and that is only for an empty card with no balance).

I believe all of their buses everywhere in the Netherlands have now completely stopped accepting cash. I would say that the Netherlands and Sweden are the worst countries for passengers who wish to use cash (or only have cash on them). Both of these countries have pretty much completely gotten rid of cash on all of their buses and are making it difficult to use cash on their trains.

Although in London you can just get a free ride if you don't have cash. I see it happen all the time. If you approach the driver and try to pay with cash and say that you don't have a contactless card or oyster card then they just give you a free ride. It seems like a lot of the locals (who probably do have contactless cards and oyster cards) have found out about this and use it to get free travel every day on London buses. At least this is just in London for now rather than the entire country like the Netherlands and Sweden are.

It is a shame that the Netherlands hasn't kept better facilities for cash especially considering that they get a lot of tourists who are likely to need to use cash.

When I visited Paris in 2015, from my experience, it was exactly the same on their buses too, especially at night.

 

[radamfi]

I don't agree on cash (I prefer to use card internationally too), but what is an issue is acceptance of international cards in NL.

At least on buses, international cards are welcome. Even ones without contactless as they carry a full Chip & PIN machine.

 

[radamfi]

Oddly I was merrily using my Visa Debit in Albert Heijn (and anywhere for that matter) last year. Never rejected.

Only a few Albert Heijn branches accept Visa, mostly in tourist areas such as Schiphol, Amsterdam and some other railway stations. Some smaller branches don't accept cash or Visa/Mastercard, meaning many international visitors can't pay.