Beggars at railway stations

[johntea]

There is a persistent female beggar at Leeds train station on a daily basis, I'm sure anyone who travels through frequently will know exactly which one I mean (always has a carrier bag!)

In the past I have seen BTP having a quiet word with her yet she continues to be able to seemingly get away with begging on the station concourse, outside around the station perimeter and even in the Wetherspoons (in fairness kicked out fairly quickly there though!)

So what powers, if any, do BTP have to prevent beggars from entering and using the station facilities? Of course she isn't the only one but she is definitely one of the more familiar faces compared to others!

They must be experts at getting cheap rail tickets though, needing £8 to get to Liverpool and back from Leeds was the latest one I heard!

 

[Intermodal]

There is a guy who waits out of the back of London Waterloo in the area where everyone smokes, he has been asking me if he can lend some money to help him and his partner get to the homeless shelter for over 4 years.

 

[baz962]

Quite often they actually beg on the trains now. Had one on a Southeastern train a few weeks ago , on way back from Hastings. Guard made him pay for a ticket though.

 

[Melancholia]

Outside of Reading station, very frequently there always someone begging, walking up to people entering or leaving the station. Gets really irritating at some point, especially if you get asked everyday...

 

[Bensonby]

What “can” they do isn’t necessarily the same as what “will” they do.

Firstly, they could just he asked to move Begging is a criminal offence under s3 of the Vagrancy Act 1824. A person can, therefore, be arrested and charged for the simple offence of begging. This isn’t necessarily always the best way to deal with the issue, however. There are various other injunction-type powers available under Anti Social Behaviour legislation. Breach of these is a criminal offence.

The wider issue, though, is what happens when someone is prosecuted: it can be counter productive to be sent to court only to receive a fine! The best way of dealing with them is to combine criminal sanction with some more meaningful intervention from the local authority/charity (where available).

 

[LLivery]

Beggars are all over the South London rail network now. It's often the same people, either asking for money and/or food & drink. There's also the tissue sellers but that's declined quite a bit. London Overground just have put up posters on trains and at stations asking people to donate to the "Whitechapel Mission" to help beggars, but they don't explicitly say not to give to beggars.

I can't ever agree with beggars being prosecuted unless they're harassing or being abusive. This country is obsessed with prosecuting for everything and unsurprisingly it doesn't work.

 

[DarloRich]

I always say no i wont give you any money. However you look cold and hungry. Why don't i buy you a brew and a butty. Once and only once as someone said yes. . Most of the time they shuffle off.

I am also very suspicious of anyone needing money to access a shelter. They want the money for drugs and booze. I am sympathetic to them but me giving money isnt going to help.

I can't ever agree with beggars being prosecuted unless they're harassing or being abusive. This country is obsessed with prosecuting for everything and unsurprisingly it doesn't work.

Indeed - however begging has been a crime since the 1800's.

 

[Bletchleyite]

FWIW this is the reason for the "Withdrawal of implicit permission to enter the station" signs found at some stations, Newcastle certainly does. Then someone who they don't want there (for any or no reason) is a (civil) trespasser and can be removed using reasonable force.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

Something that has increased since the EU free movement - even some smaller suburban stations and shopping areas now have beggars.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Something that has increased since the EU free movement - even some smaller suburban stations and shopping areas now have beggars.

I'm not sure that the two have any connection!

 

[YorkshireLad]

There are a few at Sheffield train station and recently after 8pm they've been coming onto the platforms asking for cash

 

[Mutant Lemming]

I'm not sure that the two have any connection!

Really ?

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Really ?

To use an old cliche, correlation doesn't necessarily imply causation:

Image shows the number of people who drowned by falling into a pool as correlating with the number of films Nicolas Cage appeared in

 

[Journeyman]

Something that has increased since the EU free movement - even some smaller suburban stations and shopping areas now have beggars.

Something that has increased since Theresa May started mucking things up in 2010 - fixed that for ya.

 

[jon0844]

Just don't throw dirty (mop bucket) water on them as some Southern employees (perhaps soon to be ex-employees?) did recently at Sutton.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Something that has increased since Theresa May started mucking things up in 2010 - fixed that for ya.

It's certainly the economic downturn that has caused the increase in homelessness, along with Universal Credit's poor implementation. A lot of the homeless people do seem to be Polish or Romanian, but that is probably something to do with "last in first out" type policies at employers rather than much else.

 

[och aye]

I've always been of the understanding that that railway stations are "private" property and technically unless you have a ticket to travel you have no real right to be there unless you have permission from the owners of the station.

Please correct me if this is isn't the case.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

I've always been of the understanding that that railway stations are "private" property and technically unless you have a ticket to travel you have no real right to be there unless you have permission from the owners of the station.

Please correct me if this is isn't the case.

Subject to any public rights of way (which do exist in /around/through some stations), yes the railway is private land. It is therefore trespass to be present without a good reason. Ordinarily pure trespass is of course a mere civil matter. But on the railways it is a criminal matter.

 

[jon0844]

It's certainly the economic downturn that has caused the increase in homelessness, along with Universal Credit's poor implementation. A lot of the homeless people do seem to be Polish or Romanian, but that is probably something to do with "last in first out" type policies at employers rather than much else.

It's not a good idea to generalise, but I'd say a lot of Romanian 'homeless' aren't homeless and are very organised (but perhaps trafficked) and will be delivered and picked up daily. You may also see people come to collect money during the day from them.

At home we've had some banning orders on a few people who live near me who pretend to be homeless in town, and are well known to the authorities.

This is probably why you should give to charities, or at least give food/drink and not money.

 

[Aictos]

If you think that's bad, Paris Nord is plain awful for it - not only do you get accosted by beggars in the station itself but you also get stopped outside the station even to the extend of it's not wise to have a table at one of the many cafes too close to the pavement as they even accost you there!

Paris Est is the same as you get accosted in the station so no idea what the French propose to do to deal with the situation in Paris, thankfully I've never had a issue elsewhere in France.

 

[Ken H]

I suspect many beggers have found they can make more begging than getting a job. OK some may fall on hard times between losing a job and benefits coming in. But some have been around for years.
If you are sympathetic, give to the sally army or a local homeless charity like St Georges Crypt in Leeds

 

[Mutant Lemming]

To use an old cliche, correlation doesn't necessarily imply causation:

Image shows the number of people who drowned by falling into a pool as correlating with the number of films Nicolas Cage appeared in

No fancy charts or graphs just observation over the years on London's public transport system and it's central and suburban streets. There was an increase of rough sleepers on tube stations back in the 80's 'care in the Community' programme, saw it every day a direct result of those policies- doubt no one would dispute that on here but woe betide any unpalatable truths that may be construed as racist be admitted. Locally before 'free movement' we had no people living in the local park - post 'free movement' a Romanian camp appeared in the woodland, along with beggars on the broadway - would they have been there without 'free movement' ? You really think so ?

 

[Clayton]

Something that has increased since the EU free movement - even some smaller suburban stations and shopping areas now have beggars.

I think most of them are good traditional British beggars!

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

No fancy charts or graphs just observation over the years on London's public transport system and it's central and suburban streets. There was an increase of rough sleepers on tube stations back in the 80's 'care in the Community' programme, saw it every day a direct result of those policies- doubt no one would dispute that on here but woe betide any unpalatable truths that may be construed as racist be admitted. Locally before 'free movement' we had no people living in the local park - post 'free movement' a Romanian camp appeared in the woodland, along with beggars on the broadway - would they have been there without 'free movement' ? You really think so ?

For me it's got nothing to do with racism or anything like that, it's simply that not every correlation implies a causation! One has to be careful before jumping to conclusions. There may be a causation here, but often there will be far more to it than meets the eye, and it would take extensive investigation to conclusively prove a causation.

For example (to bring this back on topic for a rail forum), the RDG will often say something along the lines of that "privatisation has overseen the biggest passenger growth in the history of the railway". Which sort of implies there's a causation, when in fact many other factors are generally accepted as being at the very least contributory to this.

 

[Ianno87]

Something that has increased since Theresa May started mucking things up in 2010 - fixed that for ya.

Agreed - it's from about 2010 it's got *really* bad. FoM has existed for many years before thatm

 

[trebor79]

If you think that's bad, Paris Nord is plain awful for it.

Last time I went there is was consulting the metro map when some youths tried to "help" me buy tickets etc. I politely declined but made the mistake of revealing my destination. They then pinned out the route I'd suggest worked out for myself before demanding 5 Euros "for the information". They got quite shirty when I refused and followed me for a way.
There were staff about who could see I was being harassed and did precisely nothing to help. When they got aggressive I just bolted to the ticket barrier to make my escape.

 

[marko2]

BTP have a much better weapon at their disposal than the Vagrancy Act - which is archaic. Section 7.2(iii) of the Railway Byelaws (TfL's equivalent identical) is far easier to prosecute - an officer witnessing the activity will probably be sufficient.

The reality is that the BTP are targeting other offences, and probably have better uses for their cells and officers' time

Except with written permission from an Operator no person on the railway shall:

(i) display anything for the purpose of advertising or publicity, or distribute anything; or

7

1. (ii) sell or expose or offer anything for sale; or
2. (iii) tout for, or solicit money, reward, custom or employment of any
   kind.
   

What “can” they do isn’t necessarily the same as what “will” they do.

Firstly, they could just he asked to move Begging is a criminal offence under s3 of the Vagrancy Act 1824. A person can, therefore, be arrested and charged for the simple offence of begging. This isn’t necessarily always the best way to deal with the issue, however. There are various other injunction-type powers available under Anti Social Behaviour legislation. Breach of these is a criminal offence.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Tuesday night, a bloke at Huddersfield asked if I wanted some "blow". When I declined this offer he asked if he could "borrow" a quid or two...

Just pick a lane and stay in it!

 

[NorthernSpirit]

There is a persistent female beggar at Leeds station on a daily basis, I'm sure anyone who travels through frequently will know exactly which one I mean (always has a carrier bag!) In the past I have seen BTP having a quiet word with her yet she continues to be able to seemingly get away with begging on the station concourse, outside around the station perimeter and even in the Wetherspoons (in fairness kicked out fairly quickly there though!)

I know the one you mean I've had dealings with this woman who wanted to borrow a fiver to get to Sheffield - last time I looked to get to Sheffield is a tenner. I suggested a piece of cardboard and thumb to get there.

Tuesday night, a bloke at Huddersfield asked if I wanted some "blow". When I declined this offer he asked if he could "borrow" a quid or two...

Is this the same six foot bozo that was asking for 8p a couple of years back?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Is this the same six foot bozo that was asking for 8p a couple of years back?

There was one around MK who asked for a specific sum for a bus fare, which wasn't actually one of the bus fares.