Greater Anglia 2019 - What could possibly go wrong?

[dk1]

People who once lived in a small South Norfolk town on the GEML?

Love it

 

[Shunter_69]

As a driver, if no information has been given to me by a signaller, will look at the info screens as I pull into a station as this often have clues to what the hold up is.

Not the best form of communication but it gives me a chance to try and relay what the issue might be to my passengers.

It would be nice if we were the first but I don’t see how that’s possible at present unless control start using the GSMR to make announcements.

 

[LAX54]

'disseminates'

Haha that's a word I've never come across. Thankfully I (and slightly most) of the rest of this country voted similar & so we don't do the customer is always right tosh like America & others.

'Dissemination of information' .... used to be a regular phrase on the Railway once upon a time !

Also recall on the SR back in the 70's there was a document called CIRCULAR 20, this was used when there was disruption /incidents etc, Control called a nominated Box / Station etc, and advised that such and such was going on and that a CIRCULAR 20 was in force, simply this was a booklet, that was split into columns and names. so Control would call the first location, this person would then check the book and tell all the others in the list, the person getting the message would also refer to this document, and tell those that was indicated to be his job, and so on until all gad been told . always worked well, and everyone knew what was happening fairly quickly, of course tech moves on, and now we have all the communication bits and bobs under the sun, yet we seem to find out less and less info !

In the 90's we had the NTN system which was a teleprinter located in many boxes / stations, Controld could tap out messages and everyone got them all at the same time, worked well, but again onset of new tech, NTN went out the window, and again seemingly less info gets relayed !

sometimes older works better then newer !

 

[Class 170101]

I wonder if the new trains will be able to be fed information via the PIS from other sources other than a driver putting in a PIS code? eg Information Control feeding in delay information into it.

 

[HH]

To be fair, the driver doesn't really need to know the reason for delay, except to communicate to passengers on DOO services - and when there's a major delay, most of those will be on Twitter.

However, I have noticed that when there is a small delay, drivers usually have had communication and announce the reason for the delay (sometimes daft ones, like "congestion"). When there is a large delay it seems that control do not communicate. Now, I understand that the duty controller, etc. will have their hands full dealing with the incident and its ramifications; however, there are TOC people in Control whose main job is communication; surely they could make sure that drivers are informed?

On top of this, we had a delay on GA a few weeks ago, where several different reasons for the delay were being disseminated at the same time. That should never happen. TOCs need to realise that if they can communicate well in these situations people will be a lot happier; accurate and consistent information should be delivered as a priority, not as a necessary chore once they've done "the important stuff".

 

[TheEdge]

On top of this, we had a delay on GA a few weeks ago, where several different reasons for the delay were being disseminated at the same time. That should never happen. TOCs need to realise that if they can communicate well in these situations people will be a lot happier; accurate and consistent information should be delivered as a priority, not as a necessary chore once they've done "the important stuff".

May I pick two points here?

A train hits a big deer, opens a cock and stops. The driver gets out, closes the cock, waits for the air to recharge, drives off but is now late to a crossing point. The train it was meant to pass is now 5 minutes late. That second train, is it late because of "another late running train", a "train fault" or "animals on the line"? Each one is correct in that situation. But say the guard on the second train attributes it to "waiting for the late running train" which is correct. But the communications team have more detail and attribute the same delay to "an animal on the line". You now have what sounds like two totally different reasons for the same delay that are both however equally correct.

Secondly the important stuff is exactly that, and it does need to be sorted before anything else. I would much rather think that controllers are prioritising getting trains moving or responding to an incident than making sure Twitter has all the juicy details quickly.

 

[306024]

1st example. You forgot 'Congestion' . An awful phrase that has entered the railway's language.

2nd example. The sooner you restore right time running the less there is to tweet. For anyone that hasn't worked in Control when the job has gone to the wall (which will be most posters), it is a difficult place to be. Some controllers are unflappable, but it takes a certain personality to cope with everything being thrown at you.

 

[jopsuk]

Of course, passengers don't actually need to know the cause of any delay. They need to know that there is one, how bad it will be and if it will clear soon.

 

[306024]

Of course, passengers don't actually need to know the cause of any delay. They need to know that there is one, how bad it will be and if it will clear soon.

Which in some cases will require a well polished crystal ball. The cause can be useful, a fatality for example and you are looking at hours rather than minutes. Most humans are more sympathetic to that too, rather than for example overhead wires down.

None of which is specific to GA. What can go wrong in 2019 is all the things that usually go wrong on the GEML - equipment failures, either track or train. The service works well without those.

 

[Wivenswold]

In my experience they don't care what the delay is they just want to demonstrate their frustration to someone in a uniform. I've explained something in detail before and their response is generally, "So when is it going to get sorted?" GA should say "Delays" Give a brief overview "Signaling issue, late running, deer etc and an ETA for further information." If GA then produced a little report for each major delay and put it on their website it will help the curious souls see what happened, why and how it was sorted. Add a link to Delay Repay and the DfT.

 

[LowLevel]

1st example. You forgot 'Congestion' . An awful phrase that has entered the railway's language.

2nd example. The sooner you restore right time running the less there is to tweet. For anyone that hasn't worked in Control when the job has gone to the wall (which will be most posters), it is a difficult place to be. Some controllers are unflappable, but it takes a certain personality to cope with everything being thrown at you.

Unflappable is definitely the way forward. I appreciate controllers with the talent of keeping a cool outward persona when the house of cards is crashing down. I have a very good working relationship with our control and I've met most of them either visiting them or with them riding about on trains.

The least you can do when they're busy, in my opinion, if you're at least vaguely competent, is to read the information they're putting out, think about it and digest it, come up with a plan for managing your own train or station and then only come back to them with the plan at the ready if you need them to sign off something odd.

Consequently without banging on their phone line every 5 minutes I generally find them obliging and helpful even in the worst of situations.

There's an unhealthy habit on the railway nowadays, not helped by some areas of management, where initiative is seen as a bad thing. I've come up with some ridiculous plans over the years and never ended up with less than a thanks but no thanks and have actually been commended before.

 

[LAX54]

What would help, is.... let the Signaller know what you (Control) plan to do ! It's all very well the TOC Contoller and the NR Controller deciding a course of action, if the person pushing the buttons / pulling the levers hasn't got a clue !

Slightly off topic, but to do with delays, we ran a loco the other day early, it had running time to the junction where it turned left, however it delayed the passenger behind it by 2 mins, went down 'wrong reg', when checked the loco had lost 3 mins in the section, so we queried the 'wrong reg' the reply we got was that ....There is no such thing as early running train losing time (still running early) I could not be bothered to argue with that way of thinking !

 

[306024]

Better not chance that in front of the 09.00 Norwich to Liverpool St then

 

[LAX54]

Better not chance that in front of the 09.00 Norwich to Liverpool St then

We might run the CP Pilot on a test trip to Dissenbach !

 

[306024]

That would do the trick.
Any word on the 50mph TSR at Needham Market on the down? All my contacts shrug their shoulders, seems an intractable problem.

 

[dk1]

That would do the trick.
Any word on the 50mph TSR at Needham Market on the down? All my contacts shrug their shoulders, seems an intractable problem.

So much involved sadly. Crossing now just pedestrians only but subway would be below the water table & local residents rejected the footbridge option as overlooking their gardens.

 

[306024]

Indeed. I know the history well. The water table doesn't seem to worry the Dutch though, ironically

 

[trebor79]

What about a tubular footbridge? Or one with really high sides that you can't see over?

 

[Class 170101]

What about a tubular footbridge? Or one with really high sides that you can't see over?

Is such a structure viable? Like the idea though. However would probably have to be secured by CCTV.

So much involved sadly. Crossing now just pedestrians only but subway would be below the water table & local residents rejected the footbridge option as overlooking their gardens.

Isn't the subway at Manningtree at or below the water table?

 

[eastdyke]

Indeed. I know the history well. The water table doesn't seem to worry the Dutch though, ironically

Indeed again. Closer to home the Fens have been drained for centuries, extensively since the 17th century.
Yet Network Rail runs away from draining an underpass in 2018.

 

[dk1]

Is such a structure viable? Like the idea though. However would probably have to be secured by CCTV.



Isn't the subway at Manningtree at or below the water table?

Not sure on that one. I'd say no.

 

[F Great Eastern]

Better not chance that in front of the 09.00 Norwich to Liverpool St then

It's cancelled today so a bit hard!!

 

[trebor79]

Is such a structure viable? Like the idea though. However would probably have to be secured by CCTV.

A tubular footbridge is very viable indeed. I've worked on industrial site with tubular conveyor bridges, that included pedestrian access as well as supporting the weight of all the mechanical stuff. These were over much larger spans than a railway.

Parts of the Jubilee Line Extension are below the water table, in fact I recall reading that one of the station boxes is literally screwed into the bedrock to prevent it from gradually floating out of position.
So it'a certainly possible to do the same with a pedestrian underpass. Whether or not it's coat effective is another matter!

 

[Davidsb3]

So as its now mid April i havent heard anything really new. Theres only been 1 745 delivery so far(i think there was meant to be 2 or 3 by now iirc). And from reading the 12 pages. Im really thinking this is the big down hill slope.

 

[LAX54]

So much involved sadly. Crossing now just pedestrians only but subway would be below the water table & local residents rejected the footbridge option as overlooking their gardens.

Yes someone came up here just recently and said we are stuck with the TSR for a while yet, they did want to close the crossing, but as said that seemed to be shouted down ! or just make the trains whistle up like they do in America, you won't miss that on approach ! I think for Gypsy Lane you would be hanging on various tones on the horn from the Ipswich side of Needham right up the crossing itself !

 

[noodlepoodle]

How much of the Greater Anglia improvements depend on Crossrail freeing up platforms at Liverpool St? It looks like it might now be difficult to introduce a new timetable until May 2021.

 

[Alfie1014]

How much of the Greater Anglia improvements depend on Crossrail freeing up platforms at Liverpool St? It looks like it might now be difficult to introduce a new timetable until May 2021.

None really, the peak service levels are pretty much the same, though the new train fleets will increase capacity. Off peak additional services to/from Southend Vic and Hertford East I would imagine can be easily accomodated.

 

[Dr_Pepper]

Hi, I'm new here - Sorry if this is not the right place to ask

Does anyone know how they are planning to use longer 5 car trains on the Southminster branch lines, when the Wickford platforms as far as I can tell can only take 4 car trains?

Also, in response to comments above about whether customers really need to know the reason for a delay - well no they don't need a reason. But they do want one and, arguably, deserve one. Announcements such as "Congestion" or "Waiting for a red signal to clear" are nonsense and just wind up passengers more. I know we're waiting for a red signal I don't need to even be in the cab to see that!

If a train hits a deer then the one behind isn't delayed due to "A delay on a previous train" - it's been delayed because of the deer. The deer is the cause of the problem, and what's more it's not even GA's fault, so if they told passengers the truth they'd be less likely to moan about GA constantly.

 

[47421]

The Franchise Agreement includes a requirement in Schedule 6.2 para 105 for the franchisee to extend platforms at Hertford East, Wickford, Manningtree, Kings Lynn, Elsenham, Ware, St Margarets and Enfield Lock by 1 Sept 2018. No work done at any of these locations. No one seems to know what will happen when the 5 / 10 car 720s arrive, whenever that may be. Those locations were clearly chosen because it was understood that the current infrastructure would cause significant issues which cannot be fixed by selective door opening (eg longer trains overhanging crossings at Elsenham, Enfield Lock, Ware, St Margarets), position of signals/points (Hertford East) and length of bay platforms at Manningtree and Wickford.

It is a nice example of a defective franchise system - DfT and GA have specified in the FA that work will be done, which in practice can only be done by NR (100% controlled by DfT), but which NR never agreed to do, not by the deadline specified anyway, I think a response to an FoI says they are thinking about doing the work in 2021.

 

[Wivenswold]

I think a branch-line fleet would help. 23 out of Ilford for Herford East & Southminster branch services including one peak 12 car to Kings Lynn. 7 out of Clacton for the Walton and Harwich Branches. Though Walton - Colchester doesn't have platform issues (though the Hythe Junction Western curve will be interesting with 24m cars) it would free up a small number of Aventras to strengthen services elsewhere. Obviously some additional training needed which isn't ideal.

Question is, where are GA going to find a fleet of relatively new EMUs that could be maintained by Bombardier at Ilford. [stratches head]