Leeds Station Improvement

[Halifaxlad]

Definitely don't agree with any demolition South of existing station. Working on the Principle of widening the existing viaduct to the East of the station, that shouldn't be that hard nor require a lot of demolition. HS2 could become part of the existing Leeds Station footprint. With more platforms created upon the North side adjacent to Platform 1 and this new Platform O. Although in the long run I think we need another station entirely regardless! I would also widen and straighten out the existing platforms and track alignment to the West.



Alternatively I would put the HS2 platforms in the middle and have through/terminating platforms on the South Side and terminating platforms upon the North side.

 

[Angelmoon]

Note that the first footprint mostly covers nondescript low-rise buildings, probably dating back to the 80s and 90s. Your proposed alternative covers some much newer buildings including apartment towers.

Going round those tight curves would also add a couple of minutes to the journey time going south. How much does the maximum speed on the high speed section need to be increased to compensate for that?

Please see also my previous post about the need for the platforms to be straight.

These buildings will have to go if the station in to be increased in size for NPR or even conventional services, which is going to very likely be needed before the 2030s. The tight curves arise from the reuse of an existing stucture for the NPR approach. If a new viaduc is built the curves can have a radius of no less than 500m allowing for approach speeds of roughly 50mph. Im not sure of the intended terminal approach speeds on HS2 but Id guess they are not much higher than that.

The platforms can be tweaked to be as close to straight as possible but the design outlined below they do not deviate from straight by more than 5-10 degrees at their extremities with over 320m being dead straight. (See plan below. The line pictured on the southern platform is 414m long.)

 

[Halifaxlad]

I don't see why it would still need that many platforms. Surely with more trains approaching from the East it would be easier to free up capacity by terminating them at an enlarged Bradford Forster Square. The lines could be four tracked again.

They're is a lot of flat land occupied by the Forster Square Retail Park, where the previous station once stood. Demolishing it may even do a lot of good for the City Centre.

 

[Bantamzen]

New Station Street outside of the station has now been closed to buses:

The West Yorkshire Combined Authority, in partnership with Leeds City Council and Network Rail, is transforming the area outside the main station entrance to create a more attractive space.

This area (New Station Street) is used by 35,000+ people every day to catch a train, bus, pick up a taxi or walk to/from the city centre.

Plans include:

• Enlarging the pedestrian forecourt area and widening the pavement from there down to the Queen’s Hotel
• Moving the bus shelters to line up with the new kerb line and space them out so there’s more room to wait for a bus
• Creating a new additional pedestrian crossing to make it easier to get across New Station Street

The proposed changes should make a big improvement to the environment outside the main entrance, making it more spacious, more inviting and easier to use for bus passengers and pedestrians. The facilities for taxis, cycle access and the bus services using the stops will remain the same.

We want to make a significant difference to the look and feel of this important ‘gateway’ to Leeds and the wider city region. We want visitors to get a great first impression of our city as they come out of the station onto New Station Street.

https://www.yourvoice.westyorks-ca.gov.uk/LeedsNSS

There is also a graphic available via the above link showing how the pedestrian area is going to be widened, and I presume this closure will also allow for contractors to reach the southern concourse roof to start installing the new one. It could get interesting on Bishopgate Street, as all the buses that previously called / terminated at 4 stands will now converge onto the one stop there (Z1) along with existing services already using that stop. From other publicity it seems that the work on the external part of the entrance will take around nine months.

 

[Halifaxlad]

New Station Street outside of the station has now been closed to buses:

I haven't been down or past today but this might have something to do with the underside of the 'porte cochere' to 'The Queens' hotel. The netting has been hanging down lately and blowing about I think a strand of it got so long you could almost grab it.

 

[Bantamzen]

I haven't been down or past today but this might have something to do with the underside of the 'porte cochere' to 'The Queens' hotel. The netting has been hanging down lately and blowing about I think a strand of it got so long you could almost grab it.

That might be part of the reason, but there is also to be quite a widening of the pedestrian area in front of the entrance, and the bus stops will be relocated with the access road narrowed a considerable bit. Stands S7 & S8 in front of the station will be filled in & replaced with stands more or less where S9 & S10 currently are, with stand S6 moved slightly into what is current the road alignment.

There isn't likely to be any more bus services along New Station Street until the works have been completed in the Autumn.

 

[bluenoxid]

It could get interesting on Bishopgate Street, as all the buses that previously called / terminated at 4 stands will now converge onto the one stop there (Z1) along with existing services already using that stop.

They are being split between a number of stops around the area.

https://www.wymetro.com/plan-a-journey/travel-news/bus-travel-alerts/new-station-st-leeds/

 

[Ianigsy]

It's only since I started using the train again at the end of December that I realised just how much something needed doing to that area between the pedestrian crossing outside the Queens and the main station entrance. Surprising that somebody hasn't been pushed in front of a bus or a taxi, particularly when you have people trying to go in both directions, the barber's A-board and so on.

 

[johntea]

I would hardly call it a bus 'interchange' to begin with, until a wider variety of bus services actually start passing through it! (Perhaps they will after these works?)

Are they replacing the blue 'Leeds Station' part of the roof at long last too?!

 

[skyhigh]

Are they replacing the blue 'Leeds Station' part of the roof at long last too?!

The outer canopy is also being replaced as part of the roof works, as I understand it.

 

[modernrail]

The plan still has a significant pedestrian pinch point at the junction with City Square. They should scrap the new crossing and move the stop line for traffic leaving the station area right back to that point to create a large super crossing. That should be set to green for pedestrians other than for short periods for taxis/buses to get through. The plan as it is won't work and you will have pedestrians bunching up to use the new crossing just as the pavement narrows, causing problems for pedestrians trying to squeeze past. The end result will probably be worse than the current poor situation.

The taxi arrangements also look like a mess. Why not move the police parking to the current taxi pick up point to create a clear run of taxi pick up where they currently have the rank/police parking. The current taxi pick up has never worked well anyway.

 

[Bantamzen]

They are being split between a number of stops around the area.

https://www.wymetro.com/plan-a-journey/travel-news/bus-travel-alerts/new-station-st-leeds/

That's changed from last week, when Metro had advertised that all the services that usually used New Station Street would call at Z1.

 

[bluenoxid]

The plan still has a significant pedestrian pinch point at the junction with City Square. They should scrap the new crossing and move the stop line for traffic leaving the station area right back to that point to create a large super crossing. That should be set to green for pedestrians other than for short periods for taxis/buses to get through. The plan as it is won't work and you will have pedestrians bunching up to use the new crossing just as the pavement narrows, causing problems for pedestrians trying to squeeze past. The end result will probably be worse than the current poor situation.

The taxi arrangements also look like a mess. Why not move the police parking to the current taxi pick up point to create a clear run of taxi pick up where they currently have the rank/police parking. The current taxi pick up has never worked well anyway.

They would not be able to access the far side of the taxi without being at a higher risk of being run over by a passing vehicle. I understand that the “bridge” over Neville Street that the taxis use cannot be used by buses because of weight restrictions.

 

[modernrail]

They would not be able to access the far side of the taxi without being at a higher risk of being run over by a passing vehicle. I understand that the “bridge” over Neville Street that the taxis use cannot be used by buses because of weight restrictions.

The real solution would be to move all taxi and private hire pick-up into the Dark Arches. Acres of space to create a massive area. You could do it using existing infrastructure now there is a Southern entrance and existing road with close to zero traffic. You would need to add a signalled junction on Neville Street.

The better but much more expensive option would be to punch a hole in the Southern Concourse and have lifts and escalators going down into the arches. I have long thought the cost could be off-set by creating a significant amount of retail space down there.

Obviously a lot of this becomes academic if major change actually happens for HS2 and so I would favour trying the cheaper option first. The main problem will be that people expect the taxis to be outside the main entrance to a station and so signs would need to be very good.

 

[Andyh82]

Using the Dark Arches would be a good idea, but would there be air quality issues. As well as building a lift, the air ventilation systems would probably cost a fortune.

Ideally a second drop off and pick up area for private hire cars could be created underground as well to releave the congestion on Aire Street

 

[quantinghome]

Definitely don't agree with any demolition South of existing station. Working on the Principle of widening the existing viaduct to the East of the station, that shouldn't be that hard nor require a lot of demolition. HS2 could become part of the existing Leeds Station footprint. With more platforms created upon the North side adjacent to Platform 1 and this new Platform O. Although in the long run I think we need another station entirely regardless! I would also widen and straighten out the existing platforms and track alignment to the West.

View attachment 57979

Alternatively I would put the HS2 platforms in the middle and have through/terminating platforms on the South Side and terminating platforms upon the North side.

These alternatives were looked at during the initial HS2 Leeds station studies, doubtless in far more detail than we have time or resources for. One option was HS2 coming in from the west to new platforms where the current car park is, north of Platform 1. Construction time was longer by a year IIRC. Ultimately the T-junction arrangement has been accepted as it is integrated into the existing station and will be a key draw for the south bank redevelopment.

Things to consider for the existing station:
1. It's built on a 19th century viaduct. Any attempt to 'straighten out' the platforms will require a complete rebuild. Lots of pain for no gain.
2. The station was rebuilt in 1999-2002 when it had 10 million passengers per year. It's now over 30 million. Existing trends to consolidate employment within the centre of Leeds are bound to continue. So, more trains, and longer trains. This means that...
3. More platforms are needed. Currently the terminating platforms can hold multiple 3-4 carriage commuter trains at a time. What happens in the future when they are 6, or 8 carriages long? Even if train frequencies are held at present levels (and bear in mind WYCA aspire to have 4 tph on all local services), more platforms would be needed.
4. Running more trains through the station would relieve this a bit, but realistically how many additional trains per hour could run through? Even allowing for future four-tracking east of Leeds, you may be looking at 4 trains per hour more in each direction. How many platforms does that save? Two?

The long and short of it is the Leeds station needs to be a lot bigger in the future than it is at present, and the T-junction pattern is being designed to behave as a single station and be the nucleus of large developments on the south bank.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

The long and short of it is the Leeds station needs to be a lot bigger in the future than it is at present, and the T-junction pattern is being designed to behave as a single station and be the nucleus of large developments on the south bank.

What Leeds needs is another station just to the east of the city centre at which could be built on the site of Marsh Lane as a three or four platformed station that could be called Leeds East, Leeds Saxon Gardens or Leeds South Bank. This way services that head west out of City e.g Southport, Knottingley/Goole and Sheffield for instance could start there instead of Leeds City.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

One of the big problems at Leeds is that all locals bar York and Selby leave the station to the West, with few options for services to run through. This leads to trains being stacked in the west-facing bays and the two east-facing bays being little-used. If only the Cross Gates- Wetherby- Harrogate line had been kept open!

 

[Andyh82]

Would it not be best to keep the HS2 talk in a separate thread, as the thread keeps moving from stuff actually happening to long term proposals and back again.

 

[Grumpy]

Leeds has some similarities with Edinburgh Waverley in terms of East/West imbalance. I wonder if some relief might be given relatively cheaply by cross-linking platforms 13 and 14 to provide a through platform, together with making more use of the underused platform 7 for eastbound starters/terminators.

 

[xotGD]

What Leeds needs is another station just to the east of the city centre at which could be built on the site of Marsh Lane as a three or four platformed station that could be called Leeds East, Leeds Saxon Gardens or Leeds South Bank. This way services that head west out of City e.g Southport, Knottingley/Goole and Sheffield for instance could start there instead of Leeds City.

So how would I make my connection from an Airedale service to a Knottingley service?

 

[xotGD]

Leeds has some similarities with Edinburgh Waverley in terms of East/West imbalance. I wonder if some relief might be given relatively cheaply by cross-linking platforms 13 and 14 to provide a through platform, together with making more use of the underused platform 7 for eastbound starters/terminators.

Reinstate a curve so that trains from Castleford can arrive from the east and that would mitigate some of the imbalance. A bit tough on Woodlesford passengers though.

 

[AndyHudds]

That land has recently gone up for sale so it's unlikely to be used for railway purposes.

 

[HowardGWR]

So how would I make my connection from an Airedale service to a Knottingley service?

You'd have to do what they will be /are doing at Brum - walk!
I think the right-angled HS terminus is OK as long as HS trains can reverse to go on north.

 

[class 9]

Unless I've missed it, is there any plans to sort out the short stay car park and drop off area outside Weatherspoons?
To me that is a bigger problem than pedestrian access at the front of the station, often taxis queuing into there cause a back log of traffic into City Square & right down Aire St.
Getting rid of the completely pointless piazza outside Princes Exchange office block & remodelling would be a start.

 

[Halifaxlad]

The outer canopy is also being replaced as part of the roof works, as I understand it.

Went through today and they're more scaffolding under the outside canopy, which also appears to be the reason as to why the road is closed. I think the road scheme is to be done after.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

So how would I make my connection from an Airedale service to a Knottingley service?

You'd still be able to as the services would stop at City, based on my idea it would simply free up the through platforms at City by extending some of the terminators at a new station east of the city centre.

As someone has mentioned above the land is up for sale, which would mean a four platform station is out of the window and instead a single platform would instead have to be built on a lesser used part of the four track between the viaduct and Neville Hill depot. Looking at streetview in the Saxton Gardens area there is a footbridge, the platform could be installed there but only two of the many westbound departures (taking in the fact that this section of line is extremley busy) could start/terminate at the new station should ever one be built.

 

[edwin_m]

I think the right-angled HS terminus is OK as long as HS trains can reverse to go on north.

Unlikely as HS2 trains going further north wouldn't go via Leeds. However if NPR happens trains from Sheffield would probably transfer onto the existing line a short distance south of Leeds and run through the existing station, or possibly new east-west platforms and viaduct, towards York.

 

[johntea]

Confirmation of the ticket barrier line position improvements :-

https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co...w-position-as-part-of-major-upgrade-1-9675464

The new barriers will be removed and re-installed in a position further forward towards the station's main entrance, occupying a wider area with more space in front of the platform entrance.

but judging by the artist impression, also a slight alteration to the placement of the departure screens too!

I also can't quite work out if WHSmith look to have cheekily agreed to this in exchange for part of their store entrance to be available platform side of the barriers!

 

[Andyh82]

It’s back to the future isn’t it, with the barriers moved to the same place where the old manual barriers used to be (although extended) and the departure boards back immediately above, just like they were in the 90s