Transpennine Route Upgrade and Electrification updates

[themiller]

At Carlisle on Thursday, I saw that ASDO (Automatic Selected Door Opening) beacons have been installed at platforms 1, 3 and 4 (both ends) and platforms 5 & 6. None installed in 7 or 8 yet.

 

[Class 170101]

Sorry are the platforms at Carlisle so short that they cannot accommodate 2x Class 397?

 

[hwl]

Sorry are the platforms at Carlisle so short that they cannot accommodate 2x Class 397?

With ASDO they also have to be correctly positioned in the platform it isn't just about lenght. The 397 spec hopefully includes Correct Side Door Enabling (CSDE)?

 

[themiller]

Sorry are the platforms at Carlisle so short that they cannot accommodate 2x Class 397?

The through platforms accommodate a 390 with room for an extra couple of coaches. The bays (5 & 6) can’t take more than a single 397 although there’s room for an extra 2 coaches if they’re ever extended.

 

[Class 170101]

The through platforms accommodate a 390 with room for an extra couple of coaches. The bays (5 & 6) can’t take more than a single 397 although there’s room for an extra 2 coaches if they’re ever extended.

The TPE services, except the early starter and the late finisher, would use the through platforms anyway.

 

[swt_passenger]

Sorry are the platforms at Carlisle so short that they cannot accommodate 2x Class 397?

Trains running under ASDO with trackside beacons normally use it at all stations on a route, as a failsafe. If they didn’t a missing beacon would cause an obvious safety issue.

Now if the beacon is only being used to differentiate between long and short platforms at the same station, you still need a beacon for a long platform to positively allow all doors to open, not just to limit opening for a short platform.

 

[deltic08]

AFAIK its in the public domain, the plans are available somewhere with all the details on. At work we were told that there would be a blockade of varying lengths every year for the next few years so that all the required work can take place. It remains to see however what happens as the powers that be seem to change their mind every 2 minutes when it comes to the TP upgrade.

I think that the current three track section is being made four track together with sweeping away the current Mirfield station and replacing with a completely new four platform station to remove the 60mph doglegs around the island platform with straighter track with 100mph + speed capability.

Four tracking will extend all the way to Hudderfield station throat so Deighton station will have to be moved back onto new slow lines and junction to Brighouse remodelled.

 

[themiller]

The TPE services, except the early starter and the late finisher, would use the through platforms anyway.

I wouldn't expect any TPE trains to use platforms 5 & 6 normally. They'd be useful for turning back trains during disruption, though. That's why I would expect Platforms 7 & 8 to be fitted with beacons sometime.

 

[jonesy3001]

Just been reading this and during the easter weekend down the page it say's they will be putting up the overheads in between victoria and stalybridge, is this right?

https://www.networkrailmediacentre....coast-main-line-over-easter-may-bank-holidays

 

[edwin_m]

Between Victoria and a few hundred metres towards Stalybridge I think. Plus probably some work to finish the "Extension Lead", as the feeder at Heyrod is apparently up and running but can't yet supply power to anywhere that needs it.

 

[bengley]

I think that the current three track section is being made four track together with sweeping away the current Mirfield station and replacing with a completely new four platform station to remove the 60mph doglegs around the island platform with straighter track with 100mph + speed capability.

Four tracking will extend all the way to Hudderfield station throat so Deighton station will have to be moved back onto new slow lines and junction to Brighouse remodelled.

The linespeed through the island platform at Mirfield is 75mph in both directions

 

[NorthernSpirit]

From what I have heard about proposals for Mirfield it will be a full knock down and start again job to get the required linespeeds and new platforms and 4th track.

Wouldn't the current platform 3 at Mirfield be retained in the short term to allow some sort of Wakefield shuttle to run by using single line working, whilst the rest of the rails are torn up and the current platforms 1 and 2 at Mirfield are buldozered to oblivion? I just can't imagine a solid 39 week posession would work at one go, but I can imagine it being on the same scale as the recent upgrade at Filton Abbey Wood.

I think that stretch is still down to be electrified. Will a blockade of that length mean TP diversions via Calder Valley being commonplace in 2020 and affect the Calder Valley Northern timetable as a result?

We could see more TransPennine Express services starting/terminating at Brighouse (using Bradley Junction as a makeshift turnback), which would help free up space at Huddersfield whereby platform 4 is the only bi-direction platform.

 

[Elecman]

Plus probably some work to finish the "Extension Lead", as the feeder at Heyrod is apparently up and running but can't yet supply power to anywhere that needs it.

Oh no it’s not

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Wouldn't the current platform 3 at Mirfield be retained in the short term to allow some sort of Wakefield shuttle to run by using single line working, whilst the rest of the rails are torn up and the current platforms 1 and 2 at Mirfield are buldozered to oblivion? I just can't imagine a solid 39 week posession would work at one go, but I can imagine it being on the same scale as the recent upgrade at Filton Abbey Wood.

We could see more TransPennine Express services starting/terminating at Brighouse (using Bradley Junction as a makeshift turnback), which would help free up space at Huddersfield whereby platform 4 is the only bi-direction platform.

Presumably as plans are drawn up, the disruption caused during the upgrade will be factored in. Even with the best case scenario there'll be long periods where Huddersfield can only have a very limited service, or complete bustitution.

Hopefully work will be phased such that limited access is kept available as much possible, but with 4-tracking through Deighton and Bradley Junction there will need to be lengthy complete blockades heading North/East of Huddersfield... and that's not factoring in the major work also required between Heaton Lodge and Ravensthorpe.

Mirfield P3 (and P1, along with both at Deighton) has recently been extended so you'd think they won't be torn down in a hurry, though the extended sections look as though they could be reused elsewhere as they are broadly similar to the wooden platforms in the area, but with metal framework rather than wood.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

Presumably as plans are drawn up, the disruption caused during the upgrade will be factored in. Even with the best case scenario there'll be long periods where Huddersfield can only have a very limited service, or complete bustitution.

Hopefully work will be phased such that limited access is kept available as much possible, but with 4-tracking through Deighton and Bradley Junction there will need to be lengthy complete blockades heading North/East of Huddersfield... and that's not factoring in the major work also required between Heaton Lodge and Ravensthorpe.

Mirfield P3 (and P1, along with both at Deighton) has recently been extended so you'd think they won't be torn down in a hurry, though the extended sections look as though they could be reused elsewhere as they are broadly similar to the wooden platforms in the area, but with metal framework rather than wood.

Relocating Deighton wouldn't be too difficult, its only a matter of moving the platforms to where the bottom of the ramps are currently and a pair of new lines are placed on the site of the current platforms. Slathwaite meanwhile is going to be fun, as the extentions there will have to be torn out and the entire station rebuilt but there is loads of space at the back of platform 1 for a new platform, platform 2 however will need to be reloacted to where the bus stop is currently and then the lines slewed and/or realigned to accomadate the four tracking through there and Marsden may as well be rebuilt the same way as Mirfield will be.

During the Mirfield blockade, I do imagine that TPE could run some sort of circular service that may help free up platform 4 at Huddersfield, such as Man Picc > Man Vic > Todmorden > Brighouse . Huddersfield > Marsden > Stalybridge > Man Picc and vice versa.

 

[Bantamzen]

During the Mirfield blockade, I do imagine that TPE could run some sort of circular service that may help free up platform 4 at Huddersfield, such as Man Picc > Man Vic > Todmorden > Brighouse . Huddersfield > Marsden > Stalybridge > Man Picc and vice versa.

I suspect paths through the Calder Valley will be at a premium during the blockade, so potentially a circular service might be one too far as TPE try to shoehorn in at least some of the Liverpool / Airport services between the Northern ones. Maybe the Leeds-Dewsbury-Manchester portion could be re-pathed to run to Huddersfield, with TPEs calling at Hebden Bridge to allow passengers to transfer?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Relocating Deighton wouldn't be too difficult, its only a matter of moving the platforms to where the bottom of the ramps are currently and a pair of new lines are placed on the site of the current platforms. Slathwaite meanwhile is going to be fun, as the extentions there will have to be torn out and the entire station rebuilt but there is loads of space at the back of platform 1 for a new platform, platform 2 however will need to be reloacted to where the bus stop is currently and then the lines slewed and/or realigned to accomadate the four tracking through there and Marsden may as well be rebuilt the same way as Mirfield will be.

During the Mirfield blockade, I do imagine that TPE could run some sort of circular service that may help free up platform 4 at Huddersfield, such as Man Picc > Man Vic > Todmorden > Brighouse . Huddersfield > Marsden > Stalybridge > Man Picc and vice versa.

That depends upon how the 4-tracking is done though. Will the tracks be paired by use or by direction? How will that decision affect Bradley junction? These are all things that will affect how Deighton gets rebuilt. The extensions themselves look moveable and re-usable but the original 37-year-old timber sections will probably need replacing. If they can be simply slewed backwards that's all well and good, but it might not be so easy.

I wasn't aware that 4-tracking was planned West of Huddersfield (other than extra loops) though, as doing so would slow the line speed around curves. Slaithwaite was a place where this was done- the original station closed by Beeching was a 4-platform, 2-island station much more substantial than the one reopened in the early 1980s.

 

[Amstel]

No it wasn't, Slaithwaite had one island platform in the middle (platforms 2 and 3) and two side platforms (1 and 4),
connected by a subway.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Oops! The one photo I remembered seeing of the original station was taken from on the platforms, and made it appear to be two islands!

 

[Glenn1969]

Does anyone know when the DFT is going to announce the official scope and scale of the Transpennine Route Upgrade?

 

[AndrewE]

Does anyone know when the DFT is going to announce the official scope and scale of the Transpennine Route Upgrade?

My guess is it won't happen. Money spent instead on not hiring ferries, planning how to prepare for lots of unknown possibilities etc., etc.

 

[td97]

Does anyone know when the DFT is going to announce the official scope and scale of the Transpennine Route Upgrade?

April is the start of CP6. And the last time TRU made the news it stated that the project would start in Spring 2019. So April/May would be my guess for a DfT announcement.

Works are expected to begin in spring 2019 and will be delivered by an alliance between Amey, BAM Nuttall and Arup.

 

[plarailfan]

When the Trans-Pennine section around Mirfield closes for the upgrade, what will happen to the Liverpool / Drax biomass flow and the Knowseley to Wilton binliner ? Will they be able to divert via the Hope valley route as the nearest alternative ?

 

[Halifaxlad]

When the Trans-Pennine section around Mirfield closes for the upgrade, what will happen to the Liverpool / Drax biomass flow and the Knowseley to Wilton binliner ? Will they be able to divert via the Hope valley route as the nearest alternative ?

I don't know much about the Hope Valley Line but I was under the impression that all services will be diverted via Halifax once the Mirfield section is taken out of use, although I don't know how this will work successfully unless they also bring back in the Bradford Avoiding Line and the third platform at Halifax.

 

[YorkshireBear]

I don't know much about the Hope Valley Line but I was under the impression that all services will be diverted via Halifax once the Mirfield section is taken out of use, although I don't know how this will work successfully unless they also bring back in the Bradford Avoiding Line and the third platform at Halifax.

The Drax Biomass cannot go via Halifax I don't believe.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

The Drax Biomass cannot go via Halifax I don't believe.

That's my understanding too, due to needing to reverse at Bradford Interchange. Diversions will be via Hope Valley or via Skipton, Hellifield & Clitheroe, paths permitting. Hellifield being somewhat quieter than Bradford for a run round and reverse!

 

[AndrewE]

That's my understanding too, due to needing to reverse at Bradford Interchange. Diversions will be via Hope Valley or via Skipton, Hellifield & Clitheroe, paths permitting. Hellifield being somewhat quieter than Bradford for a run round and reverse!

Maybe that's why Drax were lobbying for reopening Colne to Skipton then. Reversing needs either top-and-tailing (wasting payload and fuel) or the costs of a shunter/secondman to do the coupling for running round.

 

[Ploughman]

As well as the Bio Mass there is also the Preston -- Lindsey Tank train to consider.

 

[Ploughman]

On the train from Manchester to York today.
Passing through the Heaton Lodge - Mirfield stretch and a Portacabin city has been established on the Down / North side in a field alongside the railway with some cabins trackside.

 

[plarailfan]

As well as the Bio Mass there is also the Preston -- Lindsey Tank train to consider.

Yes, I suppose the Preston - Lindsey could go via Man Picc and Stockport then the Hope Valley, always assuming a path is available ?
A handful of biomass trains have passed through Piccadilly in the past and then picked up, the route through Guide Bridge, Stalybridge and Huddersfield, but I can't imagine the route into Picc and through to Stockport, having enough capacity and paths for, probably an extra six or so, freight trains in each direction Mon to Fri, plus an odd Saturday working or two in the mix. Must be a planners nightmare at the mo trying to fathom it all out !