Any news on proposals to build an alternative route between Exeter & Plymouth?

[coppercapped]

Quite. It will look like the Berlin Wall to those houses.

As part of at least one of the houses was damaged as the road in front was washed away, I suspect that there won't be too much complaining from the owners.

 

[AndrewE]

As part of at least one of the houses was damaged as the road in front was washed away, I suspect that there won't be too much complaining from the owners.

And they are a lot higher up than the railway anyway.

 

[Charlie Smythe]

That was my reaction. This picture

from the NR webpage https://www.networkrail.co.uk/dawlish-five-years-since-the-storm-that-collapsed-the-railway/ mde it look as though the view of the beach will go...

That extra bit of wall, or "return" as some call it, is not 2.5 metres tall unless those people are giants and that dog is actually a lion. There will hopefully be detailed drawings released soon.

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

Here are the planning application documents submitted to Teignbridge District Council:-

http://docimages.teignbridge.gov.uk...nning&viewdocs=true&SDescription=19/00237/NPA

It will be interesting to see what objections are received - the 'out to sea' proposal for the sea wall further towards Teignmouth (which appears to have been quietly dropped) attracted significant protest about the loss of beach amenity.

 

[yorksrob]

That was my reaction. This picture

from the NR webpage https://www.networkrail.co.uk/dawlish-five-years-since-the-storm-that-collapsed-the-railway/ mde it look as though the view of the beach will go...

From that, I can't quite tell whether the walkway's at the same level of the railway or higher. If it's the same level, we might be ok.

 

[yorksrob]

As part of at least one of the houses was damaged as the road in front was washed away, I suspect that there won't be too much complaining from the owners.

i well remember the photo. But one would assume that someone buying a house on Dawlish seafront would have done so, at least in part for the sea view !

 

[AndrewE]

Cross-section A on this document http://docimages.teignbridge.gov.uk...bj.pdf?DocNo=4650231&PDF=true&content=obj.pdf shows what could well be a 2.5m wall and walkway well above the railway tracks, but I agree that the Dawlish residents would probably accept the loss of the view for the protection the wall gives.

 

[Cowley]

Cross-section A on this document http://docimages.teignbridge.gov.uk...bj.pdf?DocNo=4650231&PDF=true&content=obj.pdf shows what could well be a 2.5m wall and walkway well above the railway tracks, but I agree that the Dawlish residents would probably accept the loss of the view for the protection the wall gives.

It is what it is I suppose.
Although it's going to completely alter the appearance of an iconic scene. We'll be seeing more and more similar coastline protection work around the UK in the years to come.
There's many vulnerable towns in the immediate area (the lower parts of Exmouth, Teignmouth etc) that will also need considerably beefed up sea defences at some point.

 

[Hellzapoppin]

The wall will be built to protect Marine Parade which isn’t the section which suffered the storm damage. Perhaps there’s a Stage 2 ???

 

[swt_passenger]

There’s a separate drawing for cross-section C here, showing slant lines and simulated views from a typical Marine Parade property.
http://docimages.teignbridge.gov.uk...bj.pdf?DocNo=4650233&PDF=true&content=obj.pdf

 

[coppercapped]

i well remember the photo. But one would assume that someone buying a house on Dawlish seafront would have done so, at least in part for the sea view !

Yes, but one would suppose that they wanted to look AT the sea, not be IN the sea!

And if there is a serious and continuing threat of storm damage the price of the properties will fall.

What do you want? A sea view or £10,000 off the price of your house?

 

[Charlie Smythe]

Yes, but one would suppose that they wanted to look AT the sea, not be IN the sea!

And if there is a serious and continuing threat of storm damage the price of the properties will fall.

What do you want? A sea view or £10,000 off the price of your house?

If i lived there i would take the sea view over the 10 grand.

 

[Charlie Smythe]

From that, I can't quite tell whether the walkway's at the same level of the railway or higher. If it's the same level, we might be ok.

Look at this document: http://docimages.teignbridge.gov.uk...bj.pdf?DocNo=4650235&PDF=true&content=obj.pdf

If you look at VP4 before and VP4 after it doesn't look as though you will be raised up higher than it is currently. Although the cross section shows a considerable height increase so i am not to sure.

 

[AndrewE]

If i lived there i would take the sea view over the 10 grand.

but would you be able to get insurance for your house? I'd bet that without a better sea wall the value will drop by a lot more than £10k

 

[Charlie Smythe]

but would you be able to get insurance for your house? I'd bet that without a better sea wall the value will drop by a lot more than £10k

On this particular section then you would be able to although further down where it fully collapsed then maybe not however that is not included in this project.

 

[Charlie Smythe]

This wall is costing around £228,000 per metre as this wall is 350 metres and the cost is 80m.

£80,000,000 / 350 metres = £228,000.

So if there is a phase two to this and they are planning on doing this to northbound from Dawlish Station to Langstone Rock then which is around 1800 metres. It would cost around £432,000,000. This obviously isn't overly accurate as the costs will vary but I thought it was something worth posting.

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

Dawlish Beach Cam has an interesting snippet re the design of the wall at the Marine Parade.

https://www.dawlishbeach.com/2019/02/sea-wall-improvements-planning-meeting-dawlish-town-council/

Sea Wall Improvements – Planning Meeting Dawlish Town Council
by DB Simon | Feb 18, 2019 | Article, news, Sea wall rebuilding | 0 comments

For those who wish to attend, there is a Town Council Planning meeting at The Manor House, Old Town Street,
Dawlish, EX7 9AP on THURSDAY 21 FEBRUARY 2019 at 7pm

The meeting is open to the public and questions and concerns may be raised as the chairman permits.

Local Councillor Gary Taylor has told us this –

The increase to the total height of the seawall is 2.5m (8ft). That height is made up of an additional 1.4m (4.5ft) to the height of a new widened walkway (around the same level as the track) plus a further 1.1m (3.5ft) solid parapet wall with wave-return feature. The addition of the parapet wall will mean that anyone walking along the flat part of Marine Parade or living at ground floor level will not be able to see the sea. Those residents living at first floor level will also have a restricted sea view – with all buildings in Marine Parade (and some beyond) having to contend with the amplification of train noise reflecting off the parapet wall. An alternative to that proposed could be for the sea wall to have the wave-return feature incorporated at walkway level or below, with simple 1.1m-high maritime-style railings fitted instead. That could provide the line at Dawlish the storm protection required – and a less obtrusive (and perhaps more robust) structure in place of the current design. BTW, the planning application for the replacement seawall at Marine Parade will be the subject of discussion at the next Dawlish Town Council Planning Committee meeting (21st February, 7pm start). Members of the public are welcome to attend and will be permitted to comment (subject to time limits at the discretion of the Chairman). Planning Application reference: 19/00237/NPA

This may be your only opportunity to express your views.

There would appear to be two alternative solutions - the planning application certainly does not suggest that and the 'illustrative views' do not seem to indicate a restricted view for the Marine Parade properties.

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

The first phase (157 homes) of the Bovis housing development off Callington Road in Tavistock has finally been approved and the final payment made to the landowner. The land is fenced off and work is about to commence. The developer will contribute £1.53 million for every 100 homes built towards railway infrastructure as part of the agreement. The maximum number of houses in total is 750, so it will only ultimately raise approx. £11.5 million. The estimated reopening cost of Bere Alston to Tavistock is well north of £80million now so a large DfT and / or Devon CC contribution will be required if the railway is ever to be realised. I attach a few poor shots of the area - it was very wet as per usual for Tavistock!

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

 

[30907]

This wall is costing around £228,000 per metre as this wall is 350 metres and the cost is 80m.

£80,000,000 / 350 metres = £228,000.

So if there is a phase two to this and they are planning on doing this to northbound from Dawlish Station to Langstone Rock then which is around 1800 metres. It would cost around £432,000,000. This obviously isn't overly accurate as the costs will vary but I thought it was something worth posting.

Is there? And are they?

 

[Charlie Smythe]

Is there? And are they?

I don't know, it is purely speculation at this point although I cant seem them not doing anything to the section of wall between Dawlish and Langstone Rock as that is often where the line is battered most.

They may have something else in the pipeline for the rest of the wall as I cannot seem them spending £432,00,000 on the sea wall, although i would be more than happy to be proven wrong in a few years time as any work on the seawall is a good thing. Do keep in mind that this 432 million figure is in no way an accurate price as all that was used to get that figure was the £/metre rate from this current scheme, and was only calculated due to my own curiosity.

 

[Lucan]

The council will not have a 2.5 metres extension on top of the sea wall as it will completely spoil Dawlish.

Without the railway and an adequate wall, the sea itself would do the job of spoiling Dawlish.

 

[Lucan]

Deleted duplicate post

 

[Charlie Smythe]

Without an adequate wall, the sea itself will do the job of spoiling Dawlish

The wall would be adequate at its current height if it was built as a curved wave return, and not a flat slab like it is currently. Teignmouth has a design similar to what I am talking about. Having a wave return while also keeping the current height will provide a wall that will do the job will also not spoiling what Dawlish is most famous for which is of course the sea wall and also the sea view.

 

[Legolash2o]

I like the idea but I don't think it needs to be electrified.

http://www.railtechnologymagazine.c...fied-west-country-rail-line-bypassing-dawlish

The Labour Party leader has called for a new electrified rail line connecting the West Country with London which will bypass Dawlish.

The inland rail line would avoid Dawlish, where the current railway clings to the coast between Plymouth and Exeter, due to the risk caused by severe weather.

In 2014, the current Penzance-London line was in large parts destroyed by storms at Dawlish, and Jeremy Corbyn said the Dawlish line is still “obviously not protected from the dangers of severe weather.”

The line was out of action for weeks following the 2014 storms and has been shut down by the weather periodically since then. The Labour leader said the situation needs to be addressed beyond patching up the coastal railway.

He stated that “we cannot go on with closures for weeks at a time, due to bad weather and maintenance of the line,” and proposed the new rail line bypassing Dawlish and an electrification programme to speed up the trains.

In February, Network Rail unveiled plans to build a new sea wall to protect the line, the first phase of work in improving the resilience of the coastal railway line.

The DfT also announced £80m funding to build the protective wall in order to “provide better protection for the railway and homes behind it.”

In an interview with Plymouth Live, Corbyn said: “Essentially it is vulnerable and always will be vulnerable because of its location, and I do think we need to look at an inland by-pass route.

“It is also about speeding up the trains and [increasing] capacity further on from Dawlish. And that means either electrification or partial electrification and the use of battery technology in between it.

“We cannot go on with closures for weeks at a time due to bad weather and maintenance of the line. But this can only be tackled with significant investment.”

He also proposed setting up a new investment bank for major projects under a Labour government, as well as regional development banks for economic areas such as the south west

 

[yorksrob]

It's a shame he hasn't voiced support for the Okehampton route.

The development bank is a good idea - one which the coalition talked about, but which came to nothing.

 

[JohnR]

If you're going to spend £2-£3billion (Network Rails estimate), the cost of electrifying it is minimal.

 

[Esker-pades]

Any new build line should be electrified really.

 

[MarkyT]

Any new build line should be electrified really.

Definitely. With bimodes and batteries any extra electric mileage is beneficial as off wire range is extended by the ability to switch off diesels to save fuel and top up batteries for a while. Engine hours are reduced too which should extend time between services. For the line's neighbours, noise and emissions are reduced. Maximum acceleration performance is gauranteed.

For a new line, the opportunity to erect the structures and wires exists during construction period before any public service begins and the entire new alignment can be built ready with suitable clearances, attachment points and control system immunity already built in. To not erect the wires before opening would be very short sighted, even if it may be while longer before a suitable national grid supply feed can be arranged for an isolated section on a discontnuously wired route. Feed technology could be looked at to see if a smaller supply connection might suffice perhaps incorporating some of it's own storage in the substation to cover short term peaks the mains couldn't handle. That might be applied permanently, or temporarily while awaiting completion of another electrified section to bring in the feed in from a more distant larger substation. Discontinuous electrification is an interesting field. I guess Keolis Amey engineers are looking at similar issues currently for the South Wales Metro, where new electric vehicles are planned to have batteries or batteries and diesels.

 

[civ-eng-jim]

Although I wouldn't expect de-energized wire to hang around long.....