West Lothian buses

[Swanny200]

Would there be a need for Lothian to use some of these for off peak express work via the airport from West Lothian, If I recall correctly Livingston to the airport in a taxi is £18 at least. So using the M8 for peak and using the A8 for off peak via the airport

 

[In Focus]

Hartlands is due a new PARK N Ride for Citylink 900, Alas this has been running a few years late now, but it was the case why put on a slow bus when a New fast express service will appear... Maybe Lothian getting in quick here and starting one...

This was to be paid for by Tesco as part of a bigger deal ,unfortunately Tesco pulled out of the development which left the park and ride idea up in the air ,whether it is still going ahead I have no idea.

 

[In Focus]

Would there be a need for Lothian to use some of these for off peak express work via the airport from West Lothian, If I recall correctly Livingston to the airport in a taxi is £18 at least. So using the M8 for peak and using the A8 for off peak via the airport

This is a possibility as once First go east with the 600 to Edinburgh I'd imagine LCB will try and attract some of the 30 or so passengers who actually go Livingston to Airport in any given day .

 

[Swanny200]

I'm also thinking employees too, not every Edinburgh Airport employee that lives in West Lothian will work 9-5, not just travellers. I know of about 8 in Livingston and 4 in Bathgate alone who work at the airport, keep the fares reasonable and it might just work (If they actually did that)

 

[Volvodart]

There are variations going through for 27 May 2019 for all of First West Lothian 21-27 plus 600. The Midland Bluebird 29 is also changing on this date.

 

[In Focus]

There are variations going through for 27 May 2019 for all of First West Lothian 21-27 plus 600. The Midland Bluebird 29 is also changing on this date.

Timetable alterations and extra vehicles .

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Timetable alterations and extra vehicles .

Not 150 vehicles for the Edinburgh expansion?

 

[In Focus]

Not 150 vehicles for the Edinburgh expansion?

I wouldn't imagine so ,unless they are these "driverless" ones ..

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I wouldn't imagine so ,unless they are these "driverless" ones ..

No worries - tongue was firmly in cheek.

More vehicles going onto the West Lothian routes - who'd have thought Be interesting to see how many and where

 

[In Focus]

No worries - tongue was firmly in cheek.

More vehicles going onto the West Lothian routes - who'd have thought Be interesting to see how many and where

My guess is 21 , 22 ,23, 25 , and 600 will all get an increase of 1 or 2 vehicles ,which would basically give First almost a 5 minute service to Livingston from most areas where competition is strongest.

 

[Surreyman]

My guess is 21 , 22 ,23, 25 , and 600 will all get an increase of 1 or 2 vehicles ,which would basically give First almost a 5 minute service to Livingston from most areas where competition is strongest.

That would push Firsts costs up very nicely, will do wonders for future operating profit!

 

[In Focus]

That would push Firsts costs up very nicely, will do wonders for future operating profit!

Yes ,I think we've all already worked out no one shall be making money in this area as long as 2 big companies operate .
On another note First are not starting at minus 6 million so have a head start and I'm guessing leaving little margins is a better or perhaps only option to doing nothing and continuing to allow competitors to strategically place vehicles a few minutes in front of timetables is not a viable option.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

That would push Firsts costs up very nicely, will do wonders for future operating profit!

Yes ,I think we've all already worked out no one shall be making money in this area as long as 2 big companies operate .
On another note First are not starting at minus 6 million so have a head start and I'm guessing leaving little margins is a better or perhaps only option to doing nothing and continuing to allow competitors to strategically place vehicles a few minutes in front of timetables is not a viable option.

Lord oh Lord... do we have to keep explaining this?

First are obviously going to be losing money as are Lothian. For First, it may be a point of principle. Roll over here - what's to stop anyone else from coming in and eating their lunch elsewhere? That was what used to happen when First ceded territory under Moir esp. in later years. In contrast, they've exited areas when they wanted to go.

It would seem they are modestly increasing the operations (at a marginal cost) to starve LCB. So I know you (Surreyman) hate First with a rather curious passion (like they'd deflowered your first born) but this is standard practice for most firms.

Conversely, Lothian are not £6m down. They've spent money of which a chunk is on ASSETS that they can sell, transfer, reuse etc.

No doubt that Lothian will probably be losing more money as there are start up costs that cannot be amortized or capitalised, and they are the newcomer so there's no customer loyalty/continuity. Come back in 12 months time and let's see who's doing what then?

 

[In Focus]

https://www.firstgroup.com/south-ea...d-service-updates/news/child-firstweek-ticket

Another move in the game of bus chess.
£8.50 Child 7 day ticket ,good for parents who can upload it onto kids phone and know they have transport home.

 

[In Focus]

Lord oh Lord... do we have to keep explaining this?

Now see whose tongue goes in whose cheek . If your going to dish it out your surely going to expect some back ...

 

[In Focus]

Conversely, Lothian are not £6m down. They've spent money of which a chunk is on ASSETS that they can sell, transfer, reuse etc.

Maybe you should explain to the poster who commented on costs to first how this works, first will put buses in from elsewhere only cost will be running costs the exact same as Lothian and drivers wages less than Lothian.

 

[In Focus]

Lord oh Lord... do we have to keep explaining this?

First are obviously going to be losing money as are Lothian. For First, it may be a point of principle. Roll over here - what's to stop anyone else from coming in and eating their lunch elsewhere? That was what used to happen when First ceded territory under Moir esp. in later years. In contrast, they've exited areas when they wanted to go.

It would seem they are modestly increasing the operations (at a marginal cost) to starve LCB. So I know you (Surreyman) hate First with a rather curious passion (like they'd deflowered your first born) but this is standard practice for most firms.

Conversely, Lothian are not £6m down. They've spent money of which a chunk is on ASSETS that they can sell, transfer, reuse etc.

No doubt that Lothian will probably be losing more money as there are start up costs that cannot be amortized or capitalised, and they are the newcomer so there's no customer loyalty/continuity. Come back in 12 months time and let's see who's doing what then?

Have said from day 1 12/18 months will only be 1 company operating , can I assume this thread is now closed until April 2020 .
No more opinions ,no more debate?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Have said from day 1 12/18 months will only be 1 company operating , can I assume this thread is now closed until April 2020 .
No more opinions ,no more debate?

Think you misinterpret - more a case that there won't be a quick move either way and that it will be an interesting journey to see which of the two will win out.

However, the partisan posts (on both sides) that ignore simple facts are perhaps best placed in isolation

 

[In Focus]

However, the partisan posts (on both sides) that ignore simple facts are perhaps best placed in isolation

Or just taken with a pinch of salt.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Or just taken with a pinch of salt.

Alternatively, perhaps the onus should be on posters to be accurate in what they write.

I know we live in a post-truth world but let's make the moderators task easier

 

[Swanny200]

Just a query, has there ever been any talk/need for a park and ride system in Livingston. Either set up at the bottom of Lizzie Bryce for the A71 or at the top end near Deer Park, is seems to work in places like Inverkeithing and would certainly take out a lot of the hassle of the town centre for a bus interchange, then you technically could argue that First could handle the town work including into a less crowded bus station and between the villages then Lothian and Citylink could handle the longer distance routes into the capital and to the airport. It would work a lot easier than the current system rather with them throwing money at trying to stay afloat or putting the other into the ground.

 

[Surreyman]

"So I know you (Surreyman) hate First with a rather curious passion (like they'd deflowered your first born)"
TGW - I must confess, you made me chuckle with that expression!
I pretty much agree with the rest of your post.
There is a sort of inevitability about this 'bus war', it becomes a slow war of attrition, the one with the deepest pockets and greatest political support is likely to triumph, maybe, they will somehow both compromise and both sides back off to an extent.
As to my 'Curious Passion' - well better to be passionate in life than indifferent.
Most of us have an 'End Game' and in the UK Bus world, mine is to see some operators thrive and expand (Stagecoach, Go Ahead and in this instance Lothian) and to see First downsize/scale back/reduce its footprint/sell off subsidiaries in the UK.

 

[overthewater]

I had the delight of an X18 this evening, lets just say it got alot of passengers within Edinburgh area, and 16 going to WL, however all were cash fares. First had slightly more going to WL, I would be very surprised if there weren't all NON cash fares.

 

[winston270twm]

That would push Firsts costs up very nicely, will do wonders for future operating profit!

Maybe you should explain to the poster who commented on costs to first how this works, first will put buses in from elsewhere only cost will be running costs the exact same as Lothian and drivers wages less than Lothian.

Depends where "the elsewhere" is if from, if from existing First SE Pvrs then no extra cost, if "elsewhere" from within First Group they'll intergroup transfer costs / transfer of assets etc

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Depends where "the elsewhere" is if from, if from existing First SE Pvrs then no extra cost, if "elsewhere" from within First Group they'll intergroup transfer costs / transfer of assets etc

Spot on. It depends what they get and from where.

If it's a load of fully depreciated fleet or stuff that's come free from surrendering schools work, that's ok. However, if it's from another OpCo and there's depreciation on them, then that will have to be incurred.

 

[overthewater]

12 spare buses from Larbert/balfron, One has been transferred to New X35/4b. It would also seem 22 in WL isnt going to st John H which makes since as its a waste. It would seem IF new routes start within Edinburgh some stock outside Scotland will need to be found.

 

[In Focus]

Alternatively, perhaps the onus should be on posters to be accurate in what they write.

I know we live in a post-truth world but let's make the moderators task easier

So no "tongue in cheek" comments allowed ? Unless.....

 

[winston270twm]

12 spare buses from Larbert/balfron, One has been transferred to New X35/4b. It would also seem 22 in WL isnt going to st John H which makes since as its a waste. It would seem IF new routes start within Edinburgh some stock outside Scotland will need to be found.

But they'll be Midland Bluebird Limited assets rather than First Scotland East Limited and presumably those ones are being released from schools work i.e. near end of life fleet.

 

[In Focus]

Just a query, has there ever been any talk/need for a park and ride system in Livingston. Either set up at the bottom of Lizzie Bryce for the A71 or at the top end near Deer Park, is seems to work in places like Inverkeithing and would certainly take out a lot of the hassle of the town centre for a bus interchange, then you technically could argue that First could handle the town work including into a less crowded bus station and between the villages then Lothian and Citylink could handle the longer distance routes into the capital and to the airport. It would work a lot easier than the current system rather with them throwing money at trying to stay afloat or putting the other into the ground.

West Lothian council ploughed millions ,yes millions into the 3 park and rides on the A899 and it's been a complete white elephant ,in all honesty I do not see them funding anything again ,however if a bus company wished to take on such a venture i would imagine they would have no issues granting permission.

 

[In Focus]

But they'll be Midland Bluebird Limited assets rather than First Scotland East Limited and presumably those ones are being released from schools work i.e. near end of life fleet.

Frist Scotland East is only Livingston depot so they cant come from any where other than another opco.