Aviation Discussion

[Techniquest]

Where you off to bud? Pacific Islands? Australia?

Already done Australia, and I can't name an island in the Pacific!

No I'm off to Japan!

 

[Suraggu]

Already done Australia, and I can't name an island in the Pacific!

No I'm off to Japan!

Nice. Likewise early next year. Off to do ANA/JAL 767/787 domestic flights.

 

[atillathehunn]

Already done Australia, and I can't name an island in the Pacific!

No I'm off to Japan!

Congratulations Tech!

Sounds like a great trip. Which cities are you headed to?

And being aviation forum I should ask which route to get there

 

[Techniquest]

Congratulations Tech!

Sounds like a great trip. Which cities are you headed to?

And being aviation forum I should ask which route to get there

Only a short trip on this occasion, kinda forgot to change the return date so it's shorter than planned but hey ho!

This trip is simply about doing Tokyo, one of the world's busiest cities (nothing quite as exciting as exploring a busy city for me) and sampling a Bullet Train. If the opportunity arises, I'll also squeeze in Mount Fuji or an explore of Osaka.

In terms of the flights, if I had been able to book the ones that came up on Google Flights I'd have been able to sample a Lufthansa 747 on the way home but I was in a rush to book the trip so instead of waiting 3 more weeks for the necessary funds I went with what I was presented. It's interesting to note the trip is costing more than the Australia trip, and it's far from what I was originally expecting to book flights-wise, but it'll be an experience nonetheless.

In terms of the aviation side of the trip, I'm doing this:

11th November 2019:

BA910 15:10 London Heathrow to Frankfurt on a BA 320, arrive 17:55
BA4602 (codeshare with Japan Airlines, looks like the flight number is JL0408) 19:40 Frankfurt to Tokyo Narita on a JAL 787, arrive 15:00 12th November 2019

15th November 2019:

BA0008 (I'm taking flight numbers from the confirmation email, apologies if they're not right!) 09:45 Tokyo Haneda to London Heathrow arrive 13:25 on a BA 777.

Worth noting the flight times were at least partly chosen to ensure connections to/from home were easier, although I have noted I will have 3 days back in the UK after returning from Tokyo so it might be I use them to squeeze in another trip yet.

I also have time off in September to book something for, and I was originally meant to look at Japan in September but I was rushing the look-up on BA Holidays after work the other day.

Costing me £745 including 3 nights in a 3-star hotel, and for anyone wondering why I booked with BA Holidays there's a couple of key factors here. Building up my Avios (I'm a basic member of BA's Executive Club, so I will be due a bonus 795 Avios. No idea how many Avios I get out of the trip all in) and the ability to pay just £150 right now with the balance in October were both driving factors.

It also occurs to me that I *think* my Etihad Guest miles may get me a free pass to a lounge, so if that is the case I might use that at Heathrow before the outward flight. That is something I'll look up tomorrow I suspect.

So then, I've watched only a few videos on Japan Airlines on YouTube so far a while back. Experience of aviation trip report videos bigging up Etihad have left me doubting how accurate the positive feedback is for Japan Airlines though, so I'd love to hear from anyone here who has experience with the airline!

 

[atillathehunn]

Only a short trip on this occasion, kinda forgot to change the return date so it's shorter than planned but hey ho!

This trip is simply about doing Tokyo, one of the world's busiest cities (nothing quite as exciting as exploring a busy city for me) and sampling a Bullet Train. If the opportunity arises, I'll also squeeze in Mount Fuji or an explore of Osaka.

In terms of the flights, if I had been able to book the ones that came up on Google Flights I'd have been able to sample a Lufthansa 747 on the way home but I was in a rush to book the trip so instead of waiting 3 more weeks for the necessary funds I went with what I was presented. It's interesting to note the trip is costing more than the Australia trip, and it's far from what I was originally expecting to book flights-wise, but it'll be an experience nonetheless.

In terms of the aviation side of the trip, I'm doing this:

11th November 2019:

BA910 15:10 London Heathrow to Frankfurt on a BA 320, arrive 17:55
BA4602 (codeshare with Japan Airlines, looks like the flight number is JL0408) 19:40 Frankfurt to Tokyo Narita on a JAL 787, arrive 15:00 12th November 2019

15th November 2019:

BA0008 (I'm taking flight numbers from the confirmation email, apologies if they're not right!) 09:45 Tokyo Haneda to London Heathrow arrive 13:25 on a BA 777.

Worth noting the flight times were at least partly chosen to ensure connections to/from home were easier, although I have noted I will have 3 days back in the UK after returning from Tokyo so it might be I use them to squeeze in another trip yet.

I also have time off in September to book something for, and I was originally meant to look at Japan in September but I was rushing the look-up on BA Holidays after work the other day.

Costing me £745 including 3 nights in a 3-star hotel, and for anyone wondering why I booked with BA Holidays there's a couple of key factors here. Building up my Avios (I'm a basic member of BA's Executive Club, so I will be due a bonus 795 Avios. No idea how many Avios I get out of the trip all in) and the ability to pay just £150 right now with the balance in October were both driving factors.

It also occurs to me that I *think* my Etihad Guest miles may get me a free pass to a lounge, so if that is the case I might use that at Heathrow before the outward flight. That is something I'll look up tomorrow I suspect.

So then, I've watched only a few videos on Japan Airlines on YouTube so far a while back. Experience of aviation trip report videos bigging up Etihad have left me doubting how accurate the positive feedback is for Japan Airlines though, so I'd love to hear from anyone here who has experience with the airline!

Tech FYI you have a mandatory 24 hour cooling off period on purchases. If still within this I would cancel and change to your intended dates. More time in Japan. BA holidays is a very smart way to go.

 

[Techniquest]

Tech FYI you have a mandatory 24 hour cooling off period on purchases. If still within this I would cancel and change to your intended dates. More time in Japan. BA holidays is a very smart way to go.

Dang, wish I'd realised that at the time, I booked it yesterday afternoon so the 'cooling off' period will be over. No matter, Japan's always been about Tokyo and Bullet Trains for me. Everything else is a 'nice-to-have' if that makes sense.

I'm noting on FLIO (really good app by the way for keeping log of flights) that there is a high-speed train option from Narita Airport into Tokyo itself, so if that's a Bullet Train I'll have one objective done before I even arrive in the city

 

[Suraggu]

Only a short trip on this occasion, kinda forgot to change the return date so it's shorter than planned but hey ho!

This trip is simply about doing Tokyo, one of the world's busiest cities (nothing quite as exciting as exploring a busy city for me) and sampling a Bullet Train. If the opportunity arises, I'll also squeeze in Mount Fuji or an explore of Osaka.

In terms of the flights, if I had been able to book the ones that came up on Google Flights I'd have been able to sample a Lufthansa 747 on the way home but I was in a rush to book the trip so instead of waiting 3 more weeks for the necessary funds I went with what I was presented. It's interesting to note the trip is costing more than the Australia trip, and it's far from what I was originally expecting to book flights-wise, but it'll be an experience nonetheless.

In terms of the aviation side of the trip, I'm doing this:

11th November 2019:

BA910 15:10 London Heathrow to Frankfurt on a BA 320, arrive 17:55
BA4602 (codeshare with Japan Airlines, looks like the flight number is JL0408) 19:40 Frankfurt to Tokyo Narita on a JAL 787, arrive 15:00 12th November 2019

15th November 2019:

BA0008 (I'm taking flight numbers from the confirmation email, apologies if they're not right!) 09:45 Tokyo Haneda to London Heathrow arrive 13:25 on a BA 777.

Worth noting the flight times were at least partly chosen to ensure connections to/from home were easier, although I have noted I will have 3 days back in the UK after returning from Tokyo so it might be I use them to squeeze in another trip yet.

I also have time off in September to book something for, and I was originally meant to look at Japan in September but I was rushing the look-up on BA Holidays after work the other day.

Costing me £745 including 3 nights in a 3-star hotel, and for anyone wondering why I booked with BA Holidays there's a couple of key factors here. Building up my Avios (I'm a basic member of BA's Executive Club, so I will be due a bonus 795 Avios. No idea how many Avios I get out of the trip all in) and the ability to pay just £150 right now with the balance in October were both driving factors.

It also occurs to me that I *think* my Etihad Guest miles may get me a free pass to a lounge, so if that is the case I might use that at Heathrow before the outward flight. That is something I'll look up tomorrow I suspect.

So then, I've watched only a few videos on Japan Airlines on YouTube so far a while back. Experience of aviation trip report videos bigging up Etihad have left me doubting how accurate the positive feedback is for Japan Airlines though, so I'd love to hear from anyone here who has experience with the airline!

I can't stand flying with BA, the only plus point is the air stewardesses, oh my....
JAL you will get treated well, not Singapore Airlines well but the staff are proud of who they work for generally and have a great deal in pride to the customer service level given, typical of the Japanese to be honest.

 

[Techniquest]

I can't stand flying with BA, the only plus point is the air stewardesses, oh my....
JAL you will get treated well, not Singapore Airlines well but the staff are proud of who they work for generally and have a great deal in pride to the customer service level given, typical of the Japanese to be honest.

Cabin crew you mean. We debated this not long ago on this thread

Looking forward to seeing what JAL are like then, promises to be a good experience based on your comment though

 

[Suraggu]

Cabin crew you mean. We debated this not long ago on this thread

Looking forward to seeing what JAL are like then, promises to be a good experience based on your comment though

Yeah nah mate, air stewardesses. Always fun to be corrected by them as well. Helps break the ice and get them to laugh

 

[fowler9]

Yeah nah mate, air stewardesses. Always fun to be corrected by them as well. Helps break the ice and get them to laugh

They are cabin crew. My sister is one and won't thank you for calling her a stewardess.

 

[Aictos]

Probably no but as the 767s no longer fly London to Edinburgh, what has replaced them?

Anything that can classed as a wide body aircraft or just A320s/A321s/B737s?

 

[Suraggu]

They are cabin crew. My sister is one and won't thank you for calling her a stewardess.

Chill out bud. Its only banter

 

[Aictos]

Also since when has Norwegian stopped serving the London to Berlin market?

Remembered back in 2016 you could get direct flights between SXF and LGW but now it seems you no longer have that option.

 

[atillathehunn]

Chill out bud. Its only banter

It's not just banter. When the person directly (as you insinuated in your post where you state you like to deliberately mis-name the cabin crew) or in the case of Fowler someone directly related to a cabin crew member says that this name is incorrect, continuing to call them a name which has become associated down the years as a demeaning or undermining of their hugely important role, it ceases to become 'banter'. It is offensive and rude. Furthermore, it has nothing to do with you. Would you go into a bank and call them any name you care to give them? No, they are bank tellers. It has such a loaded conotation and you absolutely know it, which is why it seems to give you pleasure in winding people up with it.

The role of cabin crew was brought to bear this weekend in two horrible accidents. The first, the cabin crew were instrumental in evacuating all passengers of a 737 which skidded into a river and saving all (human) souls on board in very challenging circumstances. In yesterday's incident in Moscow, the cabin crew have been fulsomely praised for their role in ensuring as many passengers as possible were evacuated from an inferno. Indeed, one gentleman gave his life in saving others. Fowler is a respected poster here, and you appear to be a troll. Cabin crew do a tough job, and could, I am sure, do without you and your 'banter'.

 

[anme]

Dang, wish I'd realised that at the time, I booked it yesterday afternoon so the 'cooling off' period will be over. No matter, Japan's always been about Tokyo and Bullet Trains for me. Everything else is a 'nice-to-have' if that makes sense.

I'm noting on FLIO (really good app by the way for keeping log of flights) that there is a high-speed train option from Narita Airport into Tokyo itself, so if that's a Bullet Train I'll have one objective done before I even arrive in the city

Unfortunately the Narita Express is not a bullet train. It's a fairly luxurious, non-stop, but not very fast train between central Tokyo and Narita Airport. Depending exactly where you are going in Tokyo, it is often a good option although it's not cheap. More details here: https://www.jreast.co.jp/e/nex/

There are other train services to the airport, which are cheaper but generally a bit slower (although it depends on your final destination). You can also use the limousine bus service which directly serves most major hotels and is probably the easiest option if you're exhausted after a long flight. It's a bit cheaper than the Narita Express: https://www.limousinebus.co.jp/en/

Japan is great, enjoy your trip!

 

[Techniquest]

Unfortunately the Narita Express is not a bullet train. It's a fairly luxurious, non-stop, but not very fast train between central Tokyo and Narita Airport. Depending exactly where you are going in Tokyo, it is often a good option although it's not cheap. More details here: https://www.jreast.co.jp/e/nex/

Cheers for the insight there, most appreciated. I'll get onto that link in a few minutes (now I'm home and got a roast started), definitely worth seeing what it's like in advance. Can't be as ugly as the airport express trains in Norway

There are other train services to the airport, which are cheaper but generally a bit slower (although it depends on your final destination). You can also use the limousine bus service which directly serves most major hotels and is probably the easiest option if you're exhausted after a long flight. It's a bit cheaper than the Narita Express: https://www.limousinebus.co.jp/en/

Japan is great, enjoy your trip!

Thanks! Hopefully it'll be awesome, it's been on the list to do one day and it seemed sensible to get it done now. New Zealand's been pushed to the sidelines for now. I used to think the flights to Tokyo would be a challenge to endure, but after nearly 15 hours on a 380 from Sydney to Abu Dhabi these ones will be a walk in the park

The bus service sounds like a nice idea, I will see if it serves my hotel and if so that would be ideal. Thanks for the links, I may be back in a bit to provide comments.

Of course, after the trip there will be a detailed trip report!

 

[Bald Rick]

Probably no but as the 767s no longer fly London to Edinburgh, what has replaced them?

Anything that can classed as a wide body aircraft or just A320s/A321s/B737s?

No wide bodies under normal circumstances.

BA: Airbus A319/320/321, plus Embraers from London City
EZY:A319/320, with an occasional A321
Ryanair: 737s, soon to be nothing
Flybe: Embraers and a Dash 8 now and again (from LHR, natch).

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's not just banter. When the person directly (as you insinuated in your post where you state you like to deliberately mis-name the cabin crew) or in the case of Fowler someone directly related to a cabin crew member says that this name is incorrect, continuing to call them a name which has become associated down the years as a demeaning or undermining of their hugely important role, it ceases to become 'banter'. It is offensive and rude.

Is it? Most people over the age of about 40 or so call them stewards and stewardesses, and it does not demean the name at all. You get stewards in all sorts of areas and they mostly don't push a trolley flogging drinks, they have more important roles.

What would be demeaning would be calling them hosts and hostesses as that implies no other role than service, but I have not heard that in years. Or worse "trolley dollies" or somesuch.

But there is no need to get offended over "steward/ess". There really isn't.

Do you refer to "refuse collection operatives" (maybe these days "recycling collection operatives"?) by their proper title? I don't, I call them bin men/women. So does everyone else I know!

(Actually, the term I really dislike for them is the American "flight attendant" which implies that they are some kind of jumped-up security guard - which with some of the US domestic airlines they often are! Fortunately that style of attitude is not prevalent in the UK, whatever you call them).

Edit: BBC article refers to a "stewardess" ("cabin crew member" is a rather cack-handed phrase): https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-48175029

 

[Aictos]

No wide bodies under normal circumstances.

BA: Airbus A319/320/321, plus Embraers from London City
EZY:A319/320, with an occasional A321
Ryanair: 737s, soon to be nothing
Flybe: Embraers and a Dash 8 now and again (from LHR, natch).

Okay no worries, don’t suppose you know what happened to Norwegian UK’s 737 fleet? The ones based at Gatwick?

 

[Aictos]

Anyone here used Germanwings/Eurowings or even Level?

 

[fowler9]

Is it? Most people over the age of about 40 or so call them stewards and stewardesses, and it does not demean the name at all. You get stewards in all sorts of areas and they mostly don't push a trolley flogging drinks, they have more important roles.

What would be demeaning would be calling them hosts and hostesses as that implies no other role than service, but I have not heard that in years. Or worse "trolley dollies" or somesuch.

But there is no need to get offended over "steward/ess". There really isn't.

Do you refer to "refuse collection operatives" (maybe these days "recycling collection operatives"?) by their proper title? I don't, I call them bin men/women. So does everyone else I know!

(Actually, the term I really dislike for them is the American "flight attendant" which implies that they are some kind of jumped-up security guard - which with some of the US domestic airlines they often are! Fortunately that style of attitude is not prevalent in the UK, whatever you call them).

Edit: BBC article refers to a "stewardess" ("cabin crew member" is a rather cack-handed phrase): https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-48175029

Read the post by Suraggu again. It was so condesending. Yeah it might get them to laugh but that isn't what is going through their heads. They laugh because they are professionals and they get sacked if they punch you in the face. They don't all think it is a bit of banter.

I once thought it would be fun to be on a flight my sister was was working but I would rather that never happened now. They get ass grabbed and talked to like sh*t by people "having a bit of banter". The women are as bad as the men. If we were talking about guards on trains you would get correctly shouted down. They are not trolley dolleys.

 

[AlterEgo]

I noticed TAP Portugal had business class flights from London Heathrow to New York for £750ish, is this good value or do they often have this fare?

It's both!

 

[Suraggu]

Read the post by Suraggu again. It was so condesending. Yeah it might get them to laugh but that isn't what is going through their heads. They laugh because they are professionals and they get sacked if they punch you in the face. They don't all think it is a bit of banter.

I once thought it would be fun to be on a flight my sister was was working but I would rather that never happened now. They get ass grabbed and talked to like sh*t by people "having a bit of banter". The women are as bad as the men. If we were talking about guards on trains you would get correctly shouted down. They are not trolley dolleys.

I think you need to carm down in more ways than one. Stop virtue signalling and taking this moral high ground just because you have a relative who works in the industry. I do love how some folk on this forum become the thought police and must know what your thinking whilst you type.

I always try to have a laugh with staff on board and never had a single complaint and if I ever over stepped the mark I would expect the cabin manager to give me a good talking to. Actually I would expect it.and Marshall to meet me at the other end.

Having a bit of banter isn't for me talking to them in a manner that would get the thought police involved for offending folk and/or being derogatory. It's helping make the flight go quicker and helps keep morale up. I have called them air stewards/Air stewardesses since I can remember and that will never change.

If you don't like it, then lump it.

Other than that the Stewards/Stewardesses on BA are pretty good in general. Can be hit and miss at certain times of year or if they been called in off standby. I find the ones going to a location they want to visit gives them that extra spring in there step. Helps that many of them follow myself and likewise in return on Instagram and you do get to see beyond what you see when you board.

Still a long way off Qantas staff mind

 

[Techniquest]

Read the post by Suraggu again. It was so condesending. Yeah it might get them to laugh but that isn't what is going through their heads. They laugh because they are professionals and they get sacked if they punch you in the face. They don't all think it is a bit of banter.

I once thought it would be fun to be on a flight my sister was was working but I would rather that never happened now. They get ass grabbed and talked to like sh*t by people "having a bit of banter". The women are as bad as the men. If we were talking about guards on trains you would get correctly shouted down. They are not trolley dolleys.

I'm not cabin crew (I've got a rather good idea of what they go through on a daily basis though) yet I find the term 'flight attendant'/'steward'/'host' all really rather unjust. So I'm in agreement with you here.

Besides, if cabin crew is not the correct term, then airlines wouldn't use it. It's a bit like people calling supermarket workers 'shelf stackers'. If that's all we did it would be bad enough, but we do a bit of everything and in my lot at least (basically all shopfloor crew) our official classification is 'service colleague'. We still have our individual sector jobs, of course.

As for your sister fowler9, I'd imagine I'd not be the only one who'd chuck in a fiver to watch her punch some of the idiot passengers she must endure regularly!

Going back to aviation again, I'm very tempted to try Wizz Air in September. The current plan is along the lines of getting to Luton (or indeed Liverpool) for a Wizz Air flight to Bratislava. Explore the city, which probably won't take long, get the train/coach to Budapest, explore there, work my way over to either Slovenia or Zagreb for an explore then return to the UK.

 

[Suraggu]

I'm not cabin crew (I've got a rather good idea of what they go through on a daily basis though) yet I find the term 'flight attendant'/'steward'/'host' all really rather unjust. So I'm in agreement with you here.

Besides, if cabin crew is not the correct term, then airlines wouldn't use it. It's a bit like people calling supermarket workers 'shelf stackers'. If that's all we did it would be bad enough, but we do a bit of everything and in my lot at least (basically all shopfloor crew) our official classification is 'service colleague'. We still have our individual sector jobs, of course.

As for your sister fowler9, I'd imagine I'd not be the only one who'd chuck in a fiver to watch her punch some of the idiot passengers she must endure regularly!

Going back to aviation again, I'm very tempted to try Wizz Air in September. The current plan is along the lines of getting to Luton (or indeed Liverpool) for a Wizz Air flight to Bratislava. Explore the city, which probably won't take long, get the train/coach to Budapest, explore there, work my way over to either Slovenia or Zagreb for an explore then return to the UK.

I used Wizz Air in 2017 from LTN to SOF and never had such an uncomfortable experience. I am 5ft 8 and my knees were up against the back of the seat in an A320. Flight was three hours delayed for an unspecified reason and when trying to claim refund for the 3 hour late arrival they stated it was 2hrs 56mins, when both members of our party showed a 3 hour delay.

And the customer service afterwards was pretty horrendous.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I used Wizz Air in 2017 from LTN to SOF and never had such an uncomfortable experience. I am 5ft 8 and my knees were up against the back of the seat in an A320. Flight was three hours delayed for an unspecified reason and when trying to claim refund for the 3 hour late arrival they stated it was 2hrs 56mins, when both members of our party showed a 3 hour delay.

And the customer service afterwards was pretty horrendous.

Wizz are rubbish. If it was possible to be worse than Ryanair they managed it.

If you're not short, you need to book the exit row. Legroom is awful on some of the older aircraft. I physically can't sit down in a regular seat on those aircraft.

 

[Suraggu]

Wizz are rubbish. If it was possible to be worse than Ryanair they managed it.

If you're not short, you need to book the exit row. Legroom is awful on some of the older aircraft. I physically can't sit down in a regular seat on those aircraft.

I thought 5ft 8 was a regular height but alas Wizz Air must think 5ft 4 is average height.
I cannot imagine flying on the Luton to Georgia flight in one of those seats.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I thought 5ft 8 was a regular height but alas Wizz Air must think 5ft 4 is average height.
I cannot imagine flying on the Luton to Georgia flight in one of those seats.

Just don't fly anywhere with them if you have another option. They are utter and total garbage, the worst airline I have ever had the misfortune to use.

 

[Techniquest]

Wizz are rubbish. If it was possible to be worse than Ryanair they managed it.

If you're not short, you need to book the exit row. Legroom is awful on some of the older aircraft. I physically can't sit down in a regular seat on those aircraft.

I'm 5'10" so I'd definitely have issues. Yet I've had no issues with legroom on any other airline. Except for on Norwegian in the non-extra legroom seats on their 787s that is.

To be worse than Ryanair says a lot. This is why I've asked on here, as if you watch Wizz Air trip reports on YouTube the reviews are normally quite positive. That being said most airline reviews on there are, even when their flight is heavily delayed and with rubbish legroom, broken IFE or whatever other issues there may be. I've recently given up following many aviation channels on YouTube for that reason, the reviews just don't really help reflect the experience with many channels now.

 

[Techniquest]

Just don't fly anywhere with them if you have another option. They are utter and total garbage, the worst airline I have ever had the misfortune to use.

Two votes strongly against Wizz Air, definitely glad I didn't book with them the other week after all! Plans are now being recast.

Blue Air, any opinions gents?