• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Caledonian Sleeper

adrock1976

Established Member
Joined
10 Dec 2013
Messages
4,450
Location
What's it called? It's called Cumbernauld
Who is planning the logistics for this?

A TOC can't just dump some portaloos on Euston concourse. They would have to have it booked well in advanced and signed off by quite a few people. Neither could they open a lounge, would you as a VT member of staff probably living quite a way away from Euston come down to open it up for a few hours? And then the CS customers use up all the supplies and make a mess so the VT passengers have to suffer the next day. And where is this trolley going to come from, with what supplies, with who running it? Lots of things on the railway are meticulously planned - you can't just rock up and do whatever you want with someone else's property, on someone else's station, with some magical staff that pop out of nowhere at the middle of the night (cause I can't see the CS staff guiding a portaloo into the middle of Eversholt Street!)

I was under the impression that both London Euston and Kings Cross are run by Network Rail, a sort of haphazard arms length company of the UK Government. I.e. those stations are owned by us, the UK citizens.

I do get how it can be a nightmare organising portaloos which would only be in use for a short while. Perhaps if sleeper passengers who need the lavatory before boarding in times of disruption, Serco could arrange with the Head of Steam pub (the one at the bus station) which I remember the bar staff give you the code for the door to the toilets.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

causton

Established Member
Joined
4 Aug 2010
Messages
5,504
Location
Somewhere between WY372 and MV7
I was under the impression that both London Euston and Kings Cross are run by Network Rail, a sort of haphazard arms length company of the UK Government. I.e. those stations are owned by us, the UK citizens.
Correct. Network Rail do not run the Caledonian Sleeper though. If CS wanted to rock up with a trolley or some portaloos unannounced even if they could source them and get someone to sign off the budget at midnight in their offices in Scotland for immediate delivery in London, I don't think it would go down very well :P
 

Mainliner

Member
Joined
1 Nov 2010
Messages
255
Location
North Tyneside
Who is planning the logistics for this?

On 21 June CS tweeted: “Service Update, Fort William-Euston: In addition to arrangements with the Jury's Inn, the LNER 1st Class Lounge within Waverley Station will remain open, with both facilities available until the estimated boarding time of 01:15”

So clearly these things aren’t as impossible to arrange as you make out.

Where there’s a will, there’s a way.

The problem is that all too often recently there’s been no evidence of any will.
 

Essexman

Established Member
Joined
15 Mar 2011
Messages
1,380
CS still not active on Twitter for hours despite all the issues.
Is the franchise just too small be be economical to employ enough staff?
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
97,896
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
I was under the impression that both London Euston and Kings Cross are run by Network Rail, a sort of haphazard arms length company of the UK Government. I.e. those stations are owned by us, the UK citizens.

I do get how it can be a nightmare organising portaloos which would only be in use for a short while. Perhaps if sleeper passengers who need the lavatory before boarding in times of disruption, Serco could arrange with the Head of Steam pub (the one at the bus station) which I remember the bar staff give you the code for the door to the toilets.

In the majority of cases they can simply use the station toilets which are open for the full period of operation of the station (there's no door or gate on them to close them). This was a one-off exceptional situation caused by a burst pipe leading to flooding - it might well be the only time it has ever happened since Euston opened in the 60s, certainly I have never encountered the toilets there out of service that I can recall. Pretty much all the criticisms of CS on here are valid, but not really this one. Short of providing taxis to St Pancras I'm not sure what people expected them to do.

I recall the issue was with the sewerage system, so most probably the HoS was without as well.
 

modernrail

Member
Joined
26 Jul 2015
Messages
1,054
I am just settling in to my cabin on the Malmo - Stockholm sleeper. Wide bed, shower that drains, small wardrobe, hooks, choice of air conditioning or opening window. All lights turn off - darkness is mine. £120, booked yesterday. Read it and weep sleeper fans.

No lounge car though and so not perfection although you really don't need one on a train that leaves at 11pm and arrives at 7am.
 

MrEd

Member
Joined
13 Jan 2019
Messages
587
CS still not active on Twitter for hours despite all the issues.
Is the franchise just too small be be economical to employ enough staff?

I still believe that splitting the franchise was a mistake, and that what you've suggested is an obvious disadvantage of removing the service from the main Scotrail franchise. CS staff (both frontline and administrative) seem to be very stretched at the moment, that's for sure. Certainly a few of the train crew bases are (or seem) short staffed at the moment. I have no idea whether the same is true of administrative staff, but communication to passengers is definitely an area in which CS could improve (to say the least). I'm due on the Highlander next Wednesday and have had to phone CS as I (like many others on here it seems) did not receive the email or any compensation for the non-availability of Mk5s, and also needed confirmation that my reservation would still be honoured. Thankfully they've now answered my questions and have paid the compensation. Given the record of the Mk5s so far, I definitely think that their delayed introduction to the Highlander is a blessing in disguise! It's poor that many passengers will expect Mk5s on the Highlander and get to Euston none the wiser, though. I feel very sorry for the passengers and staff who have to cope with this disaster day in, day out.

I wouldn't touch Mk5s with the proverbial bargepole at the moment, but am very happy to use the Mk2s/Mk3s on the Highlander next week. At least the Mk3s are still comfortable and (mostly) get passengers to their destinations.

I wouldn't put my life savings on any outcome, but surely they're not going to introduce Mk5s on the Highlander on 8th July in the midst of this disaster? If they do, they're crazy. What's happening on the Lowlander at the moment is awful enough, without the Highlander being beset by exactly the same difficulties.
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
97,896
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
My concern with the old stock is the Mk2s, i.e. the potential lack of a lounge car, which is 99% of the enjoyment of the Highlander. There's little enjoyment in failing to sleep in a small box in the actual sleeper coach.
 

MrEd

Member
Joined
13 Jan 2019
Messages
587
My concern with the old stock is the Mk2s, i.e. the potential lack of a lounge car, which is 99% of the enjoyment of the Highlander. There's little enjoyment in failing to sleep in a small box in the actual sleeper coach.

That's a fair point, but if I had the choice between getting to my intended destination (Spean Bridge, in my case) in reasonable comfort in a Mk3 sleeper (lounge car or no lounge car), or being stranded overnight at Euston with no accommodation or, worse, put on an overnight coach, I know exactly which option I would choose. A lot of the regular travellers I know, trying to get back to remote parts of the Highlands, would pick that option too. The Mk5s simply cannot be relied on at the moment.

When it comes to lounge cars, I often find that even if one is dead on the Highlander, the other portion will have a working one (though it will probably be restricted to first class, and very busy, a takeaway service will still be available). Then the Fort William portion has its own lounge car which comes on at Edinburgh. The chance of all three of these being dead remains fairly small (although Mk2 reliability is dwindling, I do agree). Admittedly, I became a regular traveller in the Scotrail era and soon developed coping strategies for all these issues with the old stock, which were prevalent even five years ago. The convenience of the service was a big attraction to me (and many other regulars) back then; we did not necessarily see it as the 'luxury experience' that Serco are trying to market it as now (although it has been, and always will be, my favourite rail journey anywhere).
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
97,896
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
That's a fair point, but if I had the choice between getting to my intended destination (Spean Bridge, in my case) in reasonable comfort in a Mk3 sleeper (lounge car or no lounge car), or being stranded overnight at Euston with no accommodation or, worse, put on an overnight coach, I know exactly which option I would choose. A lot of the regular travellers I know, trying to get back to remote parts of the Highlands, would pick that option too. The Mk5s simply cannot be relied on at the moment.

Yes, I agree there, it's more that I'm put off booking the Highlander for an upcoming trip to Inverness because of the risk of the enjoyable bit being missing, and am more inclined to book a flight (or a day off work and a day train - it is after all a stunningly scenic or at least interesting journey near enough throughout, and the Off Peak Return, which is an Anytime in all but name[1], is a very reasonable £150ish given the huge distance, not to mention the high chance of LNR cancellations giving me half of it back due to a delay on the very last leg).

[1] Any train after 0415, break of journey allowed both ways. There is an actual Anytime at £407 return, but I can't see any reason why one would ever be sold - if you wanted a multi-day break of journey on the outward it'd be cheaper to split the journey up.
 

alangla

Member
Joined
11 Apr 2018
Messages
1,178
Location
Glasgow
I'm not sure there's enough will in the world to organise a portaloo at zero notice late at night...
They seem to be able to source coaches easily enough - park one outside Euston & you’ve got an air conditioned waiting room with toilet. Pretty much anything is possible if you’re (Serco are) prepared to pay enough. Same with bunging the first class lounge staff a decent wedge of overtime & taxi home in return for staying open late
 

trebor79

Established Member
Joined
8 Mar 2018
Messages
4,452
They seem to be able to source coaches easily enough - park one outside Euston & you’ve got an air conditioned waiting room with toilet. Pretty much anything is possible if you’re (Serco are) prepared to pay enough. Same with bunging the first class lounge staff a decent wedge of overtime & taxi home in return for staying open late

Chartering a coach at short notice is one thing - there are companies that do that. Asking a different company to keep their facilities open at short or zero notice is quite another.
It's not as simple as just "bunging overtime". Are the premises insured outside of normal hours? How long have the staff been on duty and do what are their welfare needs? What about the cleaning or whatever else takes place overnight? What does their contract of employment have to say on it?
Etc.

All this talk of "just keep the Virgin lounge open and plonk a couple of portaloos on the concourse" is just complete nonsense.
 

haggishunter

Member
Joined
25 Aug 2016
Messages
349
I had heard on here and elsewhere I was not alone in not receiving the email and relayed this to CS, trying to be helpful pointing out they appeared to have a problem with their email system. The response was curt..."the emails were sent"....

The reality is that the emails were probably sent, but they were trashed by servers at the receiving end. I recently moved a web server with several sites on it to a different hosting company and even individual emails from a verified email system are failing to reach Gmail and Hotmail (and thus no doubt other email addresses).

Emails going to customers about service disruption should be sent through a verified email system as transactional email - of same status as the booking confirmation (and tickets if e-tickets selected) rather than from whatever system might be used for marketing emails. However, even if it is, it is no absolute guarantee that the email will be delivered to the recipient (indeed settings made by the recipient could be a problem).
 

PG

Established Member
Joined
12 Oct 2010
Messages
2,857
Location
at the end of the high and low roads
(For the benefit of those unable to view the photo) - notice appologising for possible stains in the sink/shower due to detergent and an assurance that its being investigated and that the room has been cleaned.

Was this notice on the Mk5 or Mk3 stock?
If Mk5 then I'd suggest that at this moment in time there are more pressing problems then detergent stains in the sink/shower!
Also CAFs testing not extending to daily housekeeping tasks and how they are done in the UK?
 

Highlandspring

Established Member
Joined
14 Oct 2017
Messages
2,777
Also CAFs testing not extending to daily housekeeping tasks and how they are done in the UK?
Perhaps the problem has taken weeks of repeated daily use to show up as an issue. I wouldn’t be too quick to blame CAF and the testing regime for absolutely everything.
 

Chrism20

Established Member
Joined
27 Feb 2013
Messages
1,347
If Mk5 then I'd suggest that at this moment in time there are more pressing problems then detergent stains in the sink/shower!

There will be more pressing things but with industrial action on the horizon the notice is probably a wise move.

For perceived “dirty” rooms it will be the crew on the train that get the flack for that and I doubt there will be 24hr housekeeping available like there is with other establishments that sell “Luxury accommodation” and on most nights nowhere to move said guest to when they kick off.
 

hwl

Established Member
Joined
5 Feb 2012
Messages
7,398
Perhaps the problem has taken weeks of repeated daily use to show up as an issue. I wouldn’t be too quick to blame CAF and the testing regime for absolutely everything.
Rolling stock tenders normally specify intended cleaning materials and the manufacturers are meant to insure the interiors they fit aren't damaged by them.

So did CS /ROSCO have an oops moment in either not specifying intended cleaning materials or CAF on item selection /not testing to check compatibility?
 

urpert

Member
Joined
1 Dec 2015
Messages
1,164
Location
Essendine or between Étaples and Rang-du-Fliers
There will be more pressing things but with industrial action on the horizon the notice is probably a wise move.

For perceived “dirty” rooms it will be the crew on the train that get the flack for that and I doubt there will be 24hr housekeeping available like there is with other establishments that sell “Luxury accommodation” and on most nights nowhere to move said guest to when they kick off.

As on my last journey where the “guests” next door had been moved from an en suite into a ‘Classic’ and spent the first hour of the journey loudly moaning about it.

(Still not had a reply to my email to CS sent on 8th June, incidentally.)
 

Deafdoggie

Established Member
Joined
29 Sep 2016
Messages
3,092
The reality is that the emails were probably sent, but they were trashed by servers at the receiving end. I recently moved a web server with several sites on it to a different hosting company and even individual emails from a verified email system are failing to reach Gmail and Hotmail (and thus no doubt other email addresses).

Emails going to customers about service disruption should be sent through a verified email system as transactional email - of same status as the booking confirmation (and tickets if e-tickets selected) rather than from whatever system might be used for marketing emails. However, even if it is, it is no absolute guarantee that the email will be delivered to the recipient (indeed settings made by the recipient could be a problem).

This is indeed true. We regularly email our guests about alterations from our contact centre & Hotmail in particular never seem to get through. However it is something we are aware of. Surely CS should be too?
 

Chrism20

Established Member
Joined
27 Feb 2013
Messages
1,347
This is indeed true. We regularly email our guests about alterations from our contact centre & Hotmail in particular never seem to get through. However it is something we are aware of. Surely CS should be too?

I think texts should be sent as well as an email wherever possible.

The chances of both not getting through would be pretty slim.
 

Deafdoggie

Established Member
Joined
29 Sep 2016
Messages
3,092
I think texts should be sent as well as an email wherever possible.

The chances of both not getting through would be pretty slim.

In an ideal word, alas we do not have a texting system. However, the techy guys can see if an email delivered and even if read. It is amazing how many people remember getting the email when you tell them the time they read it!
But there are a lot of delivered but unread emails, and getting them to check spam and junk folders reveals the emails. Apart from Hotmail, who seem to just "spam" everything before delivery.
 

Essexman

Established Member
Joined
15 Mar 2011
Messages
1,380
Given all the recent disruption it would reassure passengers if CS put a note on its website and a tweet to say that all services tonight are expected to run normally. Assuming that they still are of course.

Update -

I just called CS who confirmed that all trains are running tonight and they are over the problems of the last few weeks. Hopefully true. I suggested that put a note to this effect on their website & twitter. The chap seemed to think this was a good idea. I wonder if they will.
 
Last edited:

Top