Class 442s - Now at the end of the road and to be withdrawn permanently

[Don Steedy]

On the subject of the 442s being taken out of service, is it because they do or they don't put signals to danger? I read in the following Facebook post:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10220209602732592&set=p.10220209602732592&type=3&theater


Is this true?

-Peter

Not true. They are changing to danger BEFORE they pass. The other circumstance would be a whole different matter.

Meanwhile the first AC unit (2419) is being moved from ZG to Bournemouth tonight for commissioning to begin

 

[Peter C]

Not true. They are changing to danger BEFORE they pass. The other circumstance would be a whole different matter.

Meanwhile the first AC unit (2419) is being moved from ZG to Bournemouth tonight for commissioning to begin

OK. Thanks! I was thinking that the other issue would be a lot more serious.
So what we've been having is a whole load of SPADs?

-Peter

 

[swt_passenger]

OK. Thanks! I was thinking that the other issue would be a lot more serious.
So what we've been having is a whole load of SPADs?

-Peter

Effectively yes, and many instances have been reported in this thread already, over a few months. The surprise is that it’s taken so long to say they’re not going to be allowed to stay in service...

 

[Peter C]

Effectively yes, and many instances have been reported in this thread already, over a few months. The surprise is that it’s taken so long to say they’re not going to be allowed to stay in service...

OK.
It is concerning that these units have been left to do this for however long! I would have hoped that SWR would have taken them out of service long ago.... Hmm...

-Peter

 

[swt_passenger]

OK.
It is concerning that these units have been left to do this for however long! I would have hoped that SWR would have taken them out of service long ago.... Hmm...

-Peter

I just searched this thread for “COA”. The initials come up quite a lot. But it’s also been pointed out it happened in the London Bridge area, and was never fixed...

 

[Peter C]

I just searched this thread for “COA”. The initials come up quite a lot. But it’s also been pointed out it happened in the London Bridge area, and was never fixed...

OK - I assume COA means Change Of Aspect?
Why is it happening? Or is it just one of those things we don't know much about?

-Peter

 

[Roast Veg]

I thought the Change of Aspect specifically referred to the 442s being given a wrong routing, and there being a significant time delay in "changing the aspect" of a signal manually for safety purposes. If 442s are occupying sections before physically reaching the signals, that would be a different issue entirely.

 

[swt_passenger]

OK - I assume COA means Change Of Aspect?
Why is it happening? Or is it just one of those things we don't know much about?

-Peter

I asked, and a possible explanation appeared a few weeks ago, around post#3911 onwards.

 

[swt_passenger]

I thought the Change of Aspect specifically referred to the 442s being given a wrong routing, and there being a significant time delay in "changing the aspect" of a signal manually for safety purposes. If 442s are occupying sections before physically reaching the signals, that would be a different issue entirely.

No, there was a straightforward case of routing into a barred platform early on after passenger use started, and that caused significant delays while the signalled routes were reset, but we’ve generally been using “COA” as shorthand for your second situation...

 

[winks]

Paul Clifton (BBC) loves to report on these trains hopefully an update on tonight’s news ?

 

[Bigfoot]

COA means driver witnessed a change of aspect to something more restrictive. It doesn't have to be back to danger. Could be G-R-G or G-Y-G or G-R or G-Y or another of the many possibilities.

Put more simply a driver is used to seeing signals becoming less restrictive in front of them R-Y-G but G-Y/R is reportable as something somewhere is not right. Quite often it is explainable by the signallers actions. In the case of the 442 it is not.

 

[theironroad]

COA means driver witnessed a change of aspect to something more restrictive. It doesn't have to be back to danger. Could be G-R-G or G-Y-G or G-R or G-R or another of the many possibilities.

Put more simply a driver is used to seeing signals becoming less restrictive in front of them R-Y-G but R-Y-G is reportable as something somewhere is not right. Quite often it is explainable by the signallers actions. In the case of the 442 it is not.

Very nice and succinct, just a small typo where you write "r-y-g is reportable".

 

[Bigfoot]

Very nice and succinct, just s small typo where you write "r-y-g is reportable".

Edited, thanks. Auto correct is helpful but sometimes so irritating.

 

[pompeyfan]

Ramps for the disabled; were they used in 442 previous incarnation on the Direct? If so what has change? The schedules only require them to stop at three stations with significant curved platforms Portsmouth & Southsea, Fratton & Godalming and I would have thought the issue of camber must be similar for Desiros?

As said it’s not just the curve of platform that effects it, Basingstoke, for example has restrictions for wheelchair users on 442 as the track height is quite high. Also, once you throw in a couple of special stop orders at Rowlands castle or Witley then who knows!

It’s also worth remembering that SWR have been in the local news in August because of complaints that ramps are not being deployed to enable PRM on and off. Godalming was a specific station of mention. The passengers video clip was of a 444 but you could imagine further issues if a 442.

That said, I’ve always found Pompey direct guards very prompt with ramps etc. So not my experience at all.

Being picky but I believe the Paralympian was on a 450, probably in the rear accessible area.

Not true. They are changing to danger BEFORE they pass. The other circumstance would be a whole different matter.

Meanwhile the first AC unit (2419) is being moved from ZG to Bournemouth tonight for commissioning to begin

Interesting that the first AC unit comes out to play tonight. That could be the high numbered 5Q paths someone noticed the other day.

I’ve just seen wibble that 365s could be coming to the direct... I VERY much doubt it but could get some tongues wagging!

 

[Thumper1127]

Lead story on Lunchtime news.

 

[Thumper1127]

Signalling issued being blamed, not DDA.

 

[spark001uk]

What channel news was that? Was it local or national?

 

[Thumper1127]

What channel news was that? Was it local or national?

BBC South Today

 

[Bigfoot]

The actual announcement

 

[Bigfoot]

BBC South Today

South Today, Lunchtime News: 02/09/2019: www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m00086qv

The above link will only link to the correct broadcast until 13:45 on Tuesday 3/9/19.

 

[30909]

Thanks to Moley & Pompeyfan for your comments on DDA and step height, though this still leaves me wondering what has changed so drastically in camber and track height that make the ramps too steep. Perhaps the ramps available now are specific for Desiros whereas before they were adequate for slammers and 442s?

 

[hwl]

Thanks to Moley & Pompeyfan for your comments on DDA and step height, though this still leaves me wondering what has changed so drastically in camber and track height that make the ramps too steep. Perhaps the ramps available now are specific for Desiros whereas before they were adequate for slammers and 442s?

At Southern /GatEX the 442 always had their own ramps different from everything else and stopped at very few platforms that weren't to bad in general.

Things may have been more relax the last time they were at SWT/R...

 

[swt_passenger]

At Southern /GatEX the 442 always had their own ramps different from everything else and stopped at very few platforms that weren't to bad in general.

Things may have been more relax the last time they were at SWT/R...

SWT also had ramps specific to 442s when last in use. Maybe they’re all still standing on Southern platforms nowadays?

 

[387star]

Wow pretty grim news this evening on South Today about both the 442 and Aventra delays

 

[hwl]

Wow pretty grim news this evening on South Today about both the 442 and Aventra delays

With 5k+ posts on railforums it shouldn't be news for you!

 

[387star]

With 5k+ posts on railforums it shouldn't be news for you!

Ah thanks for that... there should be an award ceremony

 

[WrongRoad]

The SWR franchise just seems to go from one problem to another. It’s been pretty disastrous since First Group took over 2 years ago. Admittedly not all their fault the problems they’ve had, but it almost seems like fate telling them to give up

 

[winks]

+ SWR are renegotiating their contract, aren’t they ? Will they Ditch and hand back the keys....?

 

[hwl]

+ SWR are renegotiating their contract, aren’t they ? Will they Ditch and hand back the keys....?

I'd go for them ditching the undeliverable stuff (e.g. stuff needing enhanced power supplies), the initial franchise passenger numbers being off and central London job growth data no longer being a good proxy as DfT will struggle to argue on those.

 

[Deepgreen]

I'd go for them ditching the undeliverable stuff (e.g. stuff needing enhanced power supplies), the initial franchise passenger numbers being off and central London job growth data no longer being a good proxy as DfT will struggle to argue on those.

Did they know it was undeliverable when they tendered? I must say I've had nothing but problems with SWR each time I've used them of late, and they've been things within their control, too. Each franchisee seems to bring a lower level of practical railway operating experience than the last.