Junior Driver - DB Cargo - Disillusioned..

[jamess115]

Dear All,
I have been sitting in a Talent Pool for this role now since 28th September 2018. Any amount of chasing with HR seems to yield the same response.

Now i know the Railway Industry is unlike many other - but having attended Doncaster as a participant for the Second Stage Assessment & then a year later, with few updates - I'm disappointed.

Just curious if anyone is in a similar position ?

 

[Red1980]

To be fair it's not poor it's just how it is and how it's been for years. A talent pool Frankly is what it is.....a place to hold successful testing candidates when there's no jobs available.

On the railway if you're in that position they simply won't give you progress reports when there's none to give....saying that I assume that's the case for most industries. There are plenty out there that have been sat in Talent pools for a lot longer than a year. To a certain extent a year is a drop in the ocean compared to some.

The unfortunate thing about talent pools and something you may not be aware of and I'm sorry to say is there's no guarantee of actually ever getting a job......all it says is you've been successful as testing.....but all testing has a validity period unfortunately.

Talent pools are a funny thing really and kind of a lottery. You're probably best to adapt a cautionary approach to your position in there to be honest....be extremely proud to be where you are as not many get there and they probably will be in touch but remember being in there doesn't mean you've got a job.

Sorry if this wasn't what you wanted to hear mate. Keep your chin up though and hopefully they'll be in touch out of the blue.

 

[C J Snarzell]

I think the best advise I would give is to not get your hopes up too much.

Some of the TOCs do contact candidates held in talent pools every now and again just to see if there is a change in your circumstances or to find out if you are still interested in any forthcoming roles. The HR people have an extremely busy role and they do sometimes chase people up to bring their candidate files up to date.

I was in the police for 15 years and the force I was in did something similar to talent pools but there was a time scale to how long they would keep you in reserve. A friend of mine applied to be a police constable about ten years ago. He managed to get through both of the assessment days, his interview and background checks, but then the budget cuts of 2009/10 kicked in and he was told there were no new intakes of recruits for the immediate future. He was advised he would be held in a pool of successful applicants and contacted once the force could confirm the start date for their next intake of new officers.

Eventually the force did start recruiting for small limited intakes of new staff around 2012 but my friend was told by then that his application was out of date and he would have to start from scratch again. Needless to say he did not bother and he now has a reasonable job in retail.

The key thing I would say is that life still goes on and from reading many updates on here - people seem to hanker on to the possibilities of that dream job just because they are in a talent pool and sadly it never happens.

If I were you I would just keep applying for new roles and put this talent pool to the back of your mind because there is every chance it may not come to anything.

I'm sorry if like Red1980 my message is not what you want to here but like he said there is never a guarantee of employment with talent pools.

C J

 

[Red1980]

I think the best advise I would give is to not get your hopes up too much.

Some of the TOCs do contact candidates held in talent pools every now and again just to see if there is a change in your circumstances or to find out if you are still interested in any forthcoming roles. The HR people have an extremely busy role and they do sometimes chase people up to bring their candidate files up to date.

I was in the police for 15 years and the force I was in did something similar to talent pools but there was a time scale to how long they would keep you in reserve. A friend of mine applied to be a police constable about ten years ago. He managed to get through both of the assessment days, his interview and background checks, but then the budget cuts of 2009/10 kicked in and he was told there were no new intakes of recruits for the immediate future. He was advised he would be held in a pool of successful applicants and contacted once the force could confirm the start date for their next intake of new officers.

Eventually the force did start recruiting for small limited intakes of new staff around 2012 but my friend was told by then that his application was out of date and he would have to start from scratch again. Needless to say he did not bother and he now has a reasonable job in retail.

The key thing I would say is that life still goes on and from reading many updates on here - people seem to hanker on to the possibilities of that dream job just because they are in a talent pool and sadly it never happens.

If I were you I would just keep applying for new roles and put this talent pool to the back of your mind because there is every chance it may not come to anything.

I'm sorry if like Red1980 my message is not what you want to here but like he said there is never a guarantee of employment with talent pools.

C J

Yeah uncertainties are never nice are they,and in an ideal world when you pass the tests you start the job X amount of time later but in this day in age talent pools are the norm and when people apply they accept this may be an experience for them.

I've been quite fortunate where the intakes I've been involved with have been to directly fill vacancies so talent pools haven't been an issue. I think the closest I've come is submitting a speculative CV ha!

These talent pools seem to be a bit of a marmite thing don't they lol.

 

[Monty]

To be honest I'd look at a FOC or TOC that's a little more stable than DB atm. They have lost much work over the past decade and have had several rounds of depot closures and redundancies. Probably not the most secure company to be a driver for..

 

[Stigy]

Dear All,
I have been sitting in a Talent Pool for this role now since 28th September 2018. Any amount of chasing with HR seems to yield the same staunch response.

"We have not yet been informed of any vacancy release dates for Toton hub, Be assured though that you are listed for the East Midlands region and as soon as we can progress your application further, we will be in touch.

Now i know the Railway Industry is unlike many other - but having been dragged up to Doncaster as the only participant for the Second Stage Assessment & then a year later, with still no voluntary updates - I think that is really poor.

Just curious if anyone is in a similar position ?

I understand it can be a frustrating wait, but a talent pool is just that. A holding pool whilst they await vacancies to arise. Historically people can quite frequently be held in pools indefinitely, which is just the way it is with changing staffing requirements etc.

I have to disagree with the part about being dragged up to Doncaster. You went of your own freewill. Nobody forced you to. If it was such a chore you could have quite easily withdrawn from the process, could you not? Remember, whatever happens, DB have done you a favour by assessing you in the first place, and you can use these assessment passes for up to five years with other TOCs/FOCs. If vacancies arise elsewhere, you’d be fully not to apply whilst still being held in this pool.

 

[Stigy]

The unfortunate thing about talent pools and something you may not be aware of and I'm sorry to say is there's no guarantee of actually ever getting a job......all it says is you've been successful as testing.....but all testing has a validity period unfortunately.

Although there’s no guarantee of a job, a talent pool is more than just saying you were successful at the assessment stage. To be placed in a pool you’d ‘usually’ have had a DMI so have demonstrated that you’re suitable and the hiring manager wants you as part of their team when vacancies arise. The issue comes with how many people are in the pool, how many vacancies they have or propose to have and how they order those in the pool (for example, GWR order there’s by how the candidates performed at interview, therefore you could be suitable and meet the criteria, but have several others in front of you with better interview scores).

 

[C J Snarzell]

Stigy is right.

Be prepared to go that extra mile for ANY job. I've had a handful of interviews this year, three were for TOC jobs, the others were outside the railway industry.

I've forked out a small fortune in travelling expenses such as petrol, car park prices and rail fares to attend the venues which have included central Manchester and Liverpool. Sadly this is the nature of the beast with any job application and I fully appreciate it is frustrating and I've had a few moments at feeling deflated myself when I got the 'unsuccessful' e-mail.

Like I've said keeping plugging away and be prepared to do the traveling bit if you really want the job! I even think assessment people will look on you favourably for making that extra effort to travel for your interview or assessment. It's only a small comfort I know but effort is the key to everything in the recruitment process.

All the best.

C J

 

[Applepie356]

If you passed all the psychometric assessments can they be carried over to other TOC’s if you get bored of waiting in talent pool or do you have to go through tests again?

I assume if you passed all the assessments you are more likely to be shortlisted on other trainee driver jobs if you mention it on the application form?

 

[Louby]

The feeling when you do get the call is amazing! 2 years plus i was waiting , a year is a week in railway world ! don't give up

 

[Red1980]

Although there’s no guarantee of a job, a talent pool is more than just saying you were successful at the assessment stage. To be placed in a pool you’d ‘usually’ have had a DMI so have demonstrated that you’re suitable and the hiring manager wants you as part of their team when vacancies arise. The issue comes with how many people are in the pool, how many vacancies they have or propose to have and how they order those in the pool (for example, GWR order there’s by how the candidates performed at interview, therefore you could be suitable and meet the criteria, but have several others in front of you with better interview scores).

Potato potato........ Bottom line is the DMI as a whole is part of the assessment process. Yes it does show you've met the standards, but even if you have you could sit there with 3 DMI passes under your belt but if the sands of time ebb away it doesn't matter how well you've done or how outstanding a candidate you were the tests will expire or if there's no job there's no job.

Plenty of companies recruit to talent pools with absolutely no signs of jobs coming up.....hence why it's far from a foregone conclusion that you'll ever be contacted......no matter how enhanced your passes are or even if you aced the DMI.

Dangerous territory using the word "usually" when talking about railway recruitment....I've not experienced 2 TOCs nationwide who's process is the same. More often than not there's differences in the order things are done and pass marks etc.

 

[Atishyou]

To be honest I'd look at a FOC or TOC that's a little more stable than DB atm. They have lost much work over the past decade and have had several rounds of depot closures and redundancies. Probably not the most secure company to be a driver for..

They've also gained a lot of work. They've done the restructuring and are now looking to the future.

 

[jamess115]

Thanks all for the responses, most of which was informative and other points I may not necessarily agree with. However Im grateful for your input.

 

[Stigy]

Potato potato........ Bottom line is the DMI as a whole is part of the assessment process. Yes it does show you've met the standards, but even if you have you could sit there with 3 DMI passes under your belt but if the sands of time ebb away it doesn't matter how well you've done or how outstanding a candidate you were the tests will expire or if there's no job there's no job.

Plenty of companies recruit to talent pools with absolutely no signs of jobs coming up.....hence why it's far from a foregone conclusion that you'll ever be contacted......no matter how enhanced your passes are or even if you aced the DMI.

Dangerous territory using the word "usually" when talking about railway recruitment....I've not experienced 2 TOCs nationwide who's process is the same. More often than not there's differences in the order things are done and pass marks etc.

In my 13-years on the railway I’ve never heard of a talent pool where candidates are placed in it without having had an interview. I agree that TOCs/FOCs differ in their processes, which I wasn’t disputing.

Regarding the interview; A DMI is not part of the assessment process. If we start referring to it as such it’ll only serve to confuse people, especially since the MMI is part of the psychometric assessments.

 

[Stigy]

If you passed all the psychometric assessments can they be carried over to other TOC’s if you get bored of waiting in talent pool or do you have to go through tests again?

I assume if you passed all the assessments you are more likely to be shortlisted on other trainee driver jobs if you mention it on the application form?

Yes. The results are valid between 1 and 5 years depending on the company.

 

[Monty]

They've also gained a lot of work. They've done the restructuring and are now looking to the future.

I'll believe it when I see some real improvements, they may have won some work recently but it still pales in comparison to when EWS was still around. Since DB have bought the company they have asset stripped it to the bone with little regard for its UK based operations and staff with a lot of the operational fleet being sold or exported to Europe.

 

[Atishyou]

I'll believe it when I see some real improvements, they may have won some work recently but it still pales in comparison to when EWS was still around. Since DB have bought the company they have asset stripped it to the bone with little regard for its UK based operations and staff with a lot of the operational fleet being sold or exported to Europe.

Do you work for them?

 

[Monty]

Do you work for them?

I don't make a habit of declaring on what rail companies I may or may not work for on this forum for obvious reasons.

 

[saracen]

They've also gained a lot of work. They've done the restructuring and are now looking to the future.

DB are the laughing stock of the rail industry. Drivers are still actively leaving and they’re in a real pickle. Plus their final salary pension for new starters is being done away with

 

[Red1980]

In my 13-years on the railway I’ve never heard of a talent pool where candidates are placed in it without having had an interview. I agree that TOCs/FOCs differ in their processes, which I wasn’t disputing.

Regarding the interview; A DMI is not part of the assessment process. If we start referring to it as such it’ll only serve to confuse people, especially since the MMI is part of the psychometric assessments.

Look we can sugar coat things until we're blue in the face but the bottom line is even if the DMI doesn't take one of your lives away it's still part of the recruitment process.

In regards to the talent pool and DMI it doesn't matter whether the manager wants you as part of his/her team or not......at no point is anyone told "the job is yours" " welcome to the company" welcome aboard" blah blah blah........ So in effect whilst in a talent pool you're just someone who's met " a standard" and nothing more.

 

[Atishyou]

I don't make a habit of declaring on what rail companies I may or may not work for on this forum for obvious reasons.

That's a no then

 

[Atishyou]

DB are the laughing stock of the rail industry. Drivers are still actively leaving and they’re in a real pickle. Plus their final salary pension for new starters is being done away with

Not sure who has said that... Their customers don't think so, including quite a few large companies who have just signed long term contracts.

What pickle are they in?

Where's the evidence for pensions please? The consultation has only recently been completed and no further information has come out.

 

[Monty]

That's a no then

Do you? If so i'm guessing it hasn't been any great length of time. My Depot is full of enough ex DB drivers to know that all is not well, many of them were made redundant. They may well have gotten themselves some big contracts recently but when you consider they nearly had a virtual monopoly on UK rail freight after privatisation it doesn't look good.

 

[Atishyou]

Do you? If so i'm guessing it hasn't been any great length of time. My Depot is full of enough ex DB drivers to know that all is not well, many of them were made redundant. They may well have gotten themselves some big contracts recently but when you consider they nearly had a virtual monopoly on UK rail freight after privatisation it doesn't look good.

Yes I do and for over a decade.

DB weren't the owners after privatisation, that was EWS. Not only that, since then, a lot of ex EWS staff have formed other freight companies. Redundancy has been a big thing in the freight industry in the past, but the new CEO wants to make a difference and is doing so.

 

[saracen]

Yes I do and for over a decade.

DB weren't the owners after privatisation, that was EWS. Not only that, since then, a lot of ex EWS staff have formed other freight companies. Redundancy has been a big thing in the freight industry in the past, but the new CEO wants to make a difference and is doing so.

DB have never been in such a worst state.

Sure, they needed to make cuts but they went too deep and haven’t recovered. Morale is rock bottom, the pay rise offer is paltry and the Final Salary Pension is going. Anyone would be deluded to think that DB are heading in the right direction.

For any prospective trainee, I say go for it; get trained up, get your key, then get out.

 

[Stigy]

DB have never been in such a worst state.

Sure, they needed to make cuts but they went too deep and haven’t recovered. Morale is rock bottom, the pay rise offer is paltry and the Final Salary Pension is going. Anyone would be deluded to think that DB are heading in the right direction.

For any prospective trainee, I say go for it; get trained up, get your key, then get out.

I’d agree that any TOC or FOC is worth working for if not just to key that magical key. However, it’s not necessarily as easy as getting trained up and moving on. For a start, you’d have to be there at least three years after passing out to stand even half a chance of getting a job elsewhere. You make a good point, but it’s still a risk in my opinion. If I was in still looking for a trainee job and DB offered me one, would I take it? Of course, but in the knowledge that I’d be tied in for a few years.

 

[Atishyou]

DB have never been in such a worst state.

Sure, they needed to make cuts but they went too deep and haven’t recovered. Morale is rock bottom, the pay rise offer is paltry and the Final Salary Pension is going. Anyone would be deluded to think that DB are heading in the right direction.

For any prospective trainee, I say go for it; get trained up, get your key, then get out.

Is it perfect? I doubt you'd find anyone that would say that, but for a poster, who doesn't work for them, to say they are the 'laughing stock of the railway' does no service or credit to the people who work for them and have worked their damned hardest to try turn the company around.

Are there worse FOCs to work for? I've heard many a story.

I'm bemused how everyone else knows what's happening with the pensions, yet the employees don't. It's not going. It'll still be there for current contributors. It just depends how much you want to contribute.

Anyone who has applied, take all the opinions on here with a pinch of salt, including mine, but especially those who haven't and don't work for the company.

 

[TrainFan1]

DB are an absolute shambles!

 

[MostlyHarmless]

DB are an absolute shambles!

Care to elaborate on that statement?

 

[ninhog]

Care to elaborate on that statement?

I’m guessing he had a bad experience whilst working for DB

See DBS Shunter.