Minstral25
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Announced on Travel news this morning - East London Line opens at 12:05 with train from Dalston Junction 
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East London Line
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Anyone been on one yet?
BBC has http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8620188.stm but oddly I can't find *anything* about it on the TfL website apart from the fact its appeared on the maps.
BBC has http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8620188.stm but oddly I can't find *anything* about it on the TfL website apart from the fact its appeared on the maps.
swt_passenger
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That wasn't there earlier - but still only if you're looking for it, and as that page stated only the 23rd of May until recently I'm not sure many people will until they hear about ti elsewhere - I would have though at least a link of www.tfl.gov.uk would have been appropriate.
swt_passenger
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I agree, it does seem a suitable news story for a headline on the home page, but maybe someone thought that page is too untidy as it is :roll:
Did you see there was a TfL press release as well?
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/media/newscentre/15358.aspx
They seem to have dropped a bolloc# about the four new stations putting the borough (Hackney) on the tube map for the first time - they must've forgotten the LO stations on the NLL that are already on the map...
Paul
Did you see there was a TfL press release as well?
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/media/newscentre/15358.aspx
They seem to have dropped a bolloc# about the four new stations putting the borough (Hackney) on the tube map for the first time - they must've forgotten the LO stations on the NLL that are already on the map...
Paul
Minstral25
Established Member
Travelled home Dalston to New Cross this afternoon. Had never been on the East London Line before and the stations are really surprising with sunlight coming through on the Underground - really enjoyed that.
Quite a few passengers for a mid afternoon train but I suspect quite a few were just travelling as it was the first day. The ride was smooth and the temperature was a lovely and cool. The CIS had just the right level of messages (i.e. the next station is... and this is the train to .... which was announced once at each station).
All trains I saw had one or two Overground staff walking up and down them, presumably to keep an eye on things.
Quite a few passengers had problems with the doors - they seem to flash before they actually release and people had pushed the button but the doors didn't open.
Good experience except for one thing, I still think the 378's are an awful design with the longitudinal seating - yes more people can strand but over 95% of services won't be that full and the frequency will deal with much of the potential crowds. The seats are hard and uncomfortable as well.
At New Cross got on an 8 year old Southern 377 to Norwood Junction followed by another to Redhill and have to say they are both a much nicer traveller experience - and both were local stopper services too!
Excellent that a new service is now open
Quite a few passengers for a mid afternoon train but I suspect quite a few were just travelling as it was the first day. The ride was smooth and the temperature was a lovely and cool. The CIS had just the right level of messages (i.e. the next station is... and this is the train to .... which was announced once at each station).
All trains I saw had one or two Overground staff walking up and down them, presumably to keep an eye on things.
Quite a few passengers had problems with the doors - they seem to flash before they actually release and people had pushed the button but the doors didn't open.
Good experience except for one thing, I still think the 378's are an awful design with the longitudinal seating - yes more people can strand but over 95% of services won't be that full and the frequency will deal with much of the potential crowds. The seats are hard and uncomfortable as well.
At New Cross got on an 8 year old Southern 377 to Norwood Junction followed by another to Redhill and have to say they are both a much nicer traveller experience - and both were local stopper services too!
Excellent that a new service is now open
Went on it tonight to give it a try.. perhaps it was me that had the problem opening the doors!
When the train came in, I held the button down before it lit up, and when it lit up I released - thinking it would now open. It beeped, which made me think it was just the delay to open, but it didn't. Someone else then came up and pressed it a second time and it opened straight away!
Note in diary; you have to wait or hold the button down. Somewhat confusing for those who use trains (unless you're used to 317s that need to be held to stop them going 'pfft' and doing nothing!). It does in fact beep all the time to tell you the doors are 'active' and possibly to aid the blind to identify where the doors are?
The internal door buttons also seem to both light up - but one is to open, the other is to close. Is that right? Should both be lit? I can't quite remember if that was the case, but I'm sure both were lit.
Each station had staff with megaphones - and a lot were telling people to press the button to open the doors. Clearly people didn't see them (odd that one set of buttons is in a different position to the other) and are too used to the tube. That's going to catch people out who are using this for the first time, despite the 378s already being used elsewhere.
The trains look stunning from the outside but look drab and uninspiring inside. For short journeys, the space is amazing and will cope well in peak times, but there really aren't many seats. Still, that works in Hong Kong and the UK population isn't decreasing, so it's probably a wise move for trains that will be around for quite a while.
Can't say I was blown away by the stations. Shoreditch High Street looks unfinished inside (look at the track or ceiling) and there are a lot of stairs to climb (no escalators that I could see). Yes, you have a lift but how many people will fit in there? From a disabled access point of view, we all know that the lifts often go out of service. By comparison, escalators are pretty good. My mum has difficulty walking, but can use an escalator. She'd now have to use the lift - but if that was out of service, she'd be totally stuck. I apologise if there are escalators there somewhere!
Loads of BT police were around too. Are they going to patrol all the time or were they just keen to try the trains out? Two officers at Shoreditch and another two on my train, with more at the station I turned around at.
Overall though, niggles aside, it's good to see any new railway put into operation. I certainly have no significant complaints.
When the train came in, I held the button down before it lit up, and when it lit up I released - thinking it would now open. It beeped, which made me think it was just the delay to open, but it didn't. Someone else then came up and pressed it a second time and it opened straight away!
Note in diary; you have to wait or hold the button down. Somewhat confusing for those who use trains (unless you're used to 317s that need to be held to stop them going 'pfft' and doing nothing!). It does in fact beep all the time to tell you the doors are 'active' and possibly to aid the blind to identify where the doors are?
The internal door buttons also seem to both light up - but one is to open, the other is to close. Is that right? Should both be lit? I can't quite remember if that was the case, but I'm sure both were lit.
Each station had staff with megaphones - and a lot were telling people to press the button to open the doors. Clearly people didn't see them (odd that one set of buttons is in a different position to the other) and are too used to the tube. That's going to catch people out who are using this for the first time, despite the 378s already being used elsewhere.
The trains look stunning from the outside but look drab and uninspiring inside. For short journeys, the space is amazing and will cope well in peak times, but there really aren't many seats. Still, that works in Hong Kong and the UK population isn't decreasing, so it's probably a wise move for trains that will be around for quite a while.
Can't say I was blown away by the stations. Shoreditch High Street looks unfinished inside (look at the track or ceiling) and there are a lot of stairs to climb (no escalators that I could see). Yes, you have a lift but how many people will fit in there? From a disabled access point of view, we all know that the lifts often go out of service. By comparison, escalators are pretty good. My mum has difficulty walking, but can use an escalator. She'd now have to use the lift - but if that was out of service, she'd be totally stuck. I apologise if there are escalators there somewhere!
Loads of BT police were around too. Are they going to patrol all the time or were they just keen to try the trains out? Two officers at Shoreditch and another two on my train, with more at the station I turned around at.
Overall though, niggles aside, it's good to see any new railway put into operation. I certainly have no significant complaints.
It's a "feature" of most modern trains (certainly Turbostars and later) that the passenger door controls won't work until the release has been given by the Driver/Guard, whereas older units (like the 317s) only "look" to see if the button is being pressed, and will open the doors immediately the release is given. (I believe the technical terms for this behaviour is that modern units are edge sensitive, whereas older ones are level sensitive...though I stand for correction on that).
Cheers,
Barry
royaloak
Established Member
If the button isnt lit then it wont work, just wait a couple of seconds for it to light up THEN press it.
But it WAS lit, yet I'd obviously either need to hold it longer or perhaps release and try again (as it was held down from when it wasn't lit). That'll teach me to try and operate the doors like every other train I've been on (which obviously isn't all of them - hence me not having experienced this before). It does seem odd that the light can come on, yet the driver (or guard) could still not have released the doors.
I thought the beeping was a warning the door was opening, which is why I didn't press it again. As I'd have discovered (although I would have pressed again if someone else hadn't), that would mean the doors would never have opened and it would have just gone off without me in 20-30 seconds!!
It's funny that I had a different problem to the people who didn't even know to press a button - but with the exact same outcome!
I thought the beeping was a warning the door was opening, which is why I didn't press it again. As I'd have discovered (although I would have pressed again if someone else hadn't), that would mean the doors would never have opened and it would have just gone off without me in 20-30 seconds!!
It's funny that I had a different problem to the people who didn't even know to press a button - but with the exact same outcome!
royaloak
Established Member
It wasnt lit when you pressed it, the light must be on BEFORE you press the button, do you try and open your car door before unlocking it?
The beeping (along with the light) is to tell you that the doors can now be opened.
I realise what the beeping is for now. It's fairly unique though isn't it? Some doors beep when opening/closing, then you have the hustle alarm.. this has beeping when the doors are doing nothing.
And, the car door thing is irrelevant. I actually open the door by remote, and then open it. I can press the button and my wife could try the handle before it unlocks, but it's not quite the same. There's no sound or lights. The car won't leave if I don't get in it!
I do press door buttons before they light up quite a bit, usually on a train when it's coming to a stop. The second they are released, it will open. I can remove my finger at this time and get off. Funnily enough, I am not the only one to do this. Mind you, on the trains yesterday a lot of people just don't realise there are buttons - I guess this is because the previous service had no buttons (unlike the NLL 313s).
Clearly these trains light the door buttons before you can actually use them. It's no biggie, but caught me out and I bet it will catch others out who use trains a lot that work this way. For me, that's any 313, 365, 321, 319 and in the case of a 317 just needs a sightly longer push. I haven't used the buttons on a 377 as I don't use them enough and someone will have opened the doors, but I am presuming they're the same as the 378s? If people do make the same mistake as me (which I won't obviously do ever again) then I should add that it costs a good few seconds boarding time (maybe in the peaks, the driver will open the doors regardless?).
You can certainly say I'm wrong to do what I do, but that's how it works on every other train I use. I guess that means that however long I held the button down, it wouldn't have worked because I pressed it before it lit up. I am not sure why that's a good thing? What if the driver delays slightly before releasing the doors? On a busy commuter service, surely that's going to mean loads of people pressing the button before it is lit. Do people always wait? Do they all know it will light up? Will they assume the light might be faulty when it hasn't come on and press anyway?
All of this should have come up during usage trials on earlier rolling stock that worked this way, although I saw they've put covers over the emergency alarm button in the wheelchair area now. I guess they do listen to some comments!
And, the car door thing is irrelevant. I actually open the door by remote, and then open it. I can press the button and my wife could try the handle before it unlocks, but it's not quite the same. There's no sound or lights. The car won't leave if I don't get in it!
I do press door buttons before they light up quite a bit, usually on a train when it's coming to a stop. The second they are released, it will open. I can remove my finger at this time and get off. Funnily enough, I am not the only one to do this. Mind you, on the trains yesterday a lot of people just don't realise there are buttons - I guess this is because the previous service had no buttons (unlike the NLL 313s).
Clearly these trains light the door buttons before you can actually use them. It's no biggie, but caught me out and I bet it will catch others out who use trains a lot that work this way. For me, that's any 313, 365, 321, 319 and in the case of a 317 just needs a sightly longer push. I haven't used the buttons on a 377 as I don't use them enough and someone will have opened the doors, but I am presuming they're the same as the 378s? If people do make the same mistake as me (which I won't obviously do ever again) then I should add that it costs a good few seconds boarding time (maybe in the peaks, the driver will open the doors regardless?).
You can certainly say I'm wrong to do what I do, but that's how it works on every other train I use. I guess that means that however long I held the button down, it wouldn't have worked because I pressed it before it lit up. I am not sure why that's a good thing? What if the driver delays slightly before releasing the doors? On a busy commuter service, surely that's going to mean loads of people pressing the button before it is lit. Do people always wait? Do they all know it will light up? Will they assume the light might be faulty when it hasn't come on and press anyway?
All of this should have come up during usage trials on earlier rolling stock that worked this way, although I saw they've put covers over the emergency alarm button in the wheelchair area now. I guess they do listen to some comments!
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asylumxl
Established Member
Somewhat OT, but from experience, you can't hold the button on Electrostars to make them open as soon as they're unlocked
Desiros you can though and most of the MK3 based stock..
Desiros you can though and most of the MK3 based stock..
royaloak
Established Member
JM, I never said it was a good thing because it isnt.
The car door bit was that on some cars if you hold the handle up when unlocking them, then that door will remain locked, didn't put it across very well.
Trains are designed by people who do not fully understand the workings of the railways and don't see a few seconds delay as significant, staff and passengers will dis-agree with that!
The car door bit was that on some cars if you hold the handle up when unlocking them, then that door will remain locked, didn't put it across very well.
Trains are designed by people who do not fully understand the workings of the railways and don't see a few seconds delay as significant, staff and passengers will dis-agree with that!
chuffchuff
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395 door buttons are the same, button lights up and the beeps
start but the button won't work till about the fifth beep.
start but the button won't work till about the fifth beep.
ladydsm
Member
How long does it take to get to dalston from new cross gate?
swt_passenger
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21 mins timetabled, which is what it seemed to take this afternoon on my tour of inspection...
Paul
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I note that in some comments mention was made of staff patrolling the trains, would just like to add that this was a first day thing and is most unlikely to continue. It was to probably show the mayor that it is safe to travel. Suffice to say in the future the trains will not be in this mode. The trains are DOO and no extra provision has been made to have a member of on board staff.
This will be phased out soon once the service and customers have settled in
Minstral25
Established Member
Reliability problems already - got turfed off the 5:12 to New Cross Gate at Dalston Junction this evening as they couldn't sort the doors. Train was cancelled and was still in platform when we left on the following service (sorry forgot to get number of train)
Is that why they have 4 platforms at Dalston to leave failed trains in?
Question for those who know - why are the arriving trains shown on all the CIS screens at Dalston - makes it very hard to work out which train is going out first?
Is that why they have 4 platforms at Dalston to leave failed trains in?
Question for those who know - why are the arriving trains shown on all the CIS screens at Dalston - makes it very hard to work out which train is going out first?
The two outer platforms 1 and 4 i think are through platforms that will enable ELL trains to connect to the NLL just West of Dalston Kingsland and run to Highbury and Islington in about two years, but i know there are buffers there at the moment.
Minstral25
Established Member
They are - it's a clever design as you go down to platform level and can go to any of the four platforms - excellent choice at Dalston in two months when NLL reopens as well.
I think it was 378 153 - I saw it in the depot on the way in to New Cross Gate and got a pic on the way back out again - but grainy due to the distance but looks like 153.
Had the opportunity to go on ELL today on a day trip to London (talk about well timed as it has been planned for a few weeks without it being open actually in mind!)
Pretty impressed with the trains and the stations visited - the train backs air con I think had been set to ice box! but that will bode well I'm sure for the hot summer commutes - and are very spacious. Not entirely sure about the differing seats moquettes though (as my friend who was with me pointed out, the priority seats look like the fabric has worn)
I think now is a good time to get good pics of them as they are currently reflective as they are so clean! but not sure how long that will last!
The 378 I went on had a big sticker on the front, so I wonder if this was the train that Boris used? I didn't get the number though. It just said about trains starting in April (can't remember if it had a specific date).
You're so right about the seating looking worn on the priority seats.
Frankly, the interior is drab and ruins what could have looked stunning. Take a Southern 377 (or indeed the brand new 377/5s for FCC before Southern get them) and they look dated too.
I'm sure that another interior scheme could make them look as stunning on the inside as I think the 378s look from the outside. They just don't look real from the outside. Every photo ends up looking like some bright, vivid, 3D rendering. Whatever I might say about Bombardier and reliability, they've got a great design going there.
What a shame Southern and TfL have not done them justice inside (in my opinion - some people will no doubt love them).
You're so right about the seating looking worn on the priority seats.
Frankly, the interior is drab and ruins what could have looked stunning. Take a Southern 377 (or indeed the brand new 377/5s for FCC before Southern get them) and they look dated too.
I'm sure that another interior scheme could make them look as stunning on the inside as I think the 378s look from the outside. They just don't look real from the outside. Every photo ends up looking like some bright, vivid, 3D rendering. Whatever I might say about Bombardier and reliability, they've got a great design going there.
What a shame Southern and TfL have not done them justice inside (in my opinion - some people will no doubt love them).
Dreadnought
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Had a ride on the East London Line yesterday and 378154 is the unit carrying the "First East London Line Train" stickers. 378152 is also carrying stickers but unable to read them as only saw it as it passed the train I was on. Didn't see 378153 so not sure if this has stickers as well.
What times will the trains run to when it is officially running? I was told by a member of staff that the station (Shoreditch at least) would be staffed until 0100. But, he did also say the link up to Highbury & Islington would open in a few months! When I pushed him a bit on that, he said 'in time for the Olympics'. I really cannot fathom exactly what he meant by that!
I never noticed myself but I had seen that the release buttons are in two different locations and there was one person who seemed to have trouble getting the doors open...I suspect he was using the ose button before trying to the other side and them opening OK
I noticed the lack of escalators at Shadwell as well and its a fair few steps up to street level as we found out! (There were some school students who got off at the same time as us, took one look at one flight of stairs and decided to take the lift!)
On an aside from the above too, we were waiting at Whitechapel for quite some time for a train towards New Cross/Gate to arrive while about 4 came through in the opposite direction during the time - not sure what caused it but evidently some delays somewhere.
Also found the footbridge there looks a little odd too - with the emergency escape routes its pretty much a box above it and looks a little messy - nice old vs new architecture though - and it is also quite amusing to see the Underground trains running over the (now) Overground trains at this station!!!
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