Chaos at Exeter Central

[FGW_DID]

I see this thread is going true to forum form:

A) all rail staff are rude/untrained/uneducated and don’t know what they are talking about.
B) People who don’t and haven’t worked on the railway let alone doing revenue / tickets = instant experts on all things railway especially ticketing / revenue, timetabling, diagramming, signalling, rolling stock maintenance etc etc

 

[RPI]

So you're a revenue protection staffer, talking about a gateline you don't work at, trying to convince us that multiple passengers reporting unsafe working practices didn't actually see what they saw, or experience what they experienced. I'd take that as equivalent to calling them liars.
Do you view all passengers in the same way?

Take it as you like mate, at what point did I say I didn't work at that station? RP staff work at all stations but the day to day running is done by stations. Someone highlighted what they saw as safety issues and asked why staff cant just open the gates, I've pointed out that the staff are trained and are competent in when its necessary and that what happened wasnt usual.
For the record I have worked at this station on and off since the gates were installed in 2010 and as with all RPI'S I'm a competent gateline operative, an accusation was made about unsafe working and im disputing that the method of working is unsafe and that the scenes from that day are a regular occurrence. I dont really think theres much more to add.

 

[RPI]

I see this thread is going true to forum form:

A) all rail staff are rude/untrained/uneducated and don’t know what they are talking about.
B) People who don’t and haven’t worked on the railway let alone doing revenue / tickets = instant experts on all things railway especially ticketing / revenue, timetabling, diagramming, signalling, rolling stock maintenance etc etc

Think you hit the nail on the head

 

[randyrippley]

Take it as you like mate, at what point did I say I didn't work at that station? RP staff work at all stations but the day to day running is done by stations. Someone highlighted what they saw as safety issues and asked why staff cant just open the gates, I've pointed out that the staff are trained and are competent in when its necessary and that what happened wasnt usual.
For the record I have worked at this station on and off since the gates were installed in 2010 and as with all RPI'S I'm a competent gateline operative, an accusation was made about unsafe working and im disputing that the method of working is unsafe and that the scenes from that day are a regular occurrence. I dont really think theres much more to add.

So you claim the staff are trained, even though one of them stated here that only ONE appears to be trained and the rest are learning as they go.
There's an accusation of unsafe working in a way which you now seem to agree happened, but say is unusual whereas before you said it didn't happen. I see a degree of collective backside covering here.

 

[randyrippley]

I see this thread is going true to forum form:

A) all rail staff are rude/untrained/uneducated and don’t know what they are talking about.
B) People who don’t and haven’t worked on the railway let alone doing revenue / tickets = instant experts on all things railway especially ticketing / revenue, timetabling, diagramming, signalling, rolling stock maintenance etc etc

I notice you make no mention of safety, which is the key issue here and a subject on which plenty of posters are qualified to comment.
Also its clear from the disputes section of this forum that many gateline staff do fit your characterisation in (A) above

 

[LMS 4F]

I have used many gated stations, including some in London at peak times, Leeds regularly and Manchester Piccadilly.
What bothered me at Exeter Central was the narrow corridor leading to and from the gate line with a set of steps down to the platform close to the gates.
On the Sunday we chose not to use the train but went by bus and I wonder but will never know how many other infrequent rail users were put off by their experience. Judging by the comments I heard quite a few won't be coming back.

 

[yorkie]

IT is of course a matter of opinion but what I saw and experienced on Saturday last was not safe in my opinion...l.

If it happens again, I recommend obtaining photographic/video evidence.

 

[RealTrainBoi]

I don't want anything from this, except maybe a re-evaluation of safety at the site.
The OP wasn't being rude: he saw a safety issue and reported it. Only people being rude are those who are effectively calling him a liar.
As for whether or not its his call.........if his safety is at threat then its very much his call. And intelligent people hired as gateline staff? Are you auditioning as a comedian? Passengers are people and need the respect of the railway company staff: who's paying for their wages? It does matter.

Christ I cant believe I actually have to get re-involved with it. Do some research. Passengers payi

So you claim the staff are trained, even though one of them stated here that only ONE appears to be trained and the rest are learning as they go. .

He didn't say that only one was trained - he said that one of them is an experienced member of staff and the rest are new. But you still get trained before you start. You really dont seem to grasp how employment works. Everyone learns as they go along. Even if they are fully trained or of they've worked there for years.

 

[randyrippley]

Christ I cant believe I actually have to get re-involved with it. Do some research. Passengers payi

Yes PASSENGERS pay and thats the very point I was trying to get across to you. The passengers pay for a service, and that service does not include getting treated like cattle or being exposed to unsafe working practices. Or being told that what they experienced didn't happen

He didn't say that only one was trained - he said that one of them is an experienced member of staff and the rest are new. But you still get trained before you start. You really dont seem to grasp how employment works. Everyone learns as they go along. Even if they are fully trained or of they've worked there for years.

I suspect I grasp how employment works far better than you. And from what was said its clear that while the staff there may have had initial indoctrination training, their exposure to actual practical training wasn't enough to do the required job.
Not good enough when its both a safety critical role, and a role with possible legal consequences for the passenger if you get it wrong

 

[RealTrainBoi]

Yes PASSENGERS pay and thats the very point I was trying to get across to you. The passengers pay for a service, and that service does not include getting treated like cattle or being exposed to unsafe working practices. Or being told that what they experienced didn't happen


I suspect I grasp how employment works far better than you. And from what was said its clear that while the staff there may have had initial indoctrination training, their exposure to actual practical training wasn't enough to do the required job.
Not good enough when its both a safety critical role, and a role with possible legal consequences for the passenger if you get it wrong

1. If the trains are so bad, don't get them. Simple as that.

2. Gateline is not a Safety Critical role. This information can be found on the firstgroupcareers web page.

 

[randyrippley]

1. If the trains are so bad, don't get them. Simple as that.

That is not realistic

2. Gateline is not a Safety Critical role. This information can be found on the firstgroupcareers web page.

When a crush injury happens on the gate or stairs they'll quickly find it is

 

[RealTrainBoi]

So if the trains are your only option they are doing you a favour. Crush accidents have happened and things have been changed.

You do not have the infinite wisdom to change these things and whining like you are wont help.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Safety Critical has a specific meaning under Railway Safety Critical Work Regulations of 1994 (or similar, cannot post link from mobile device). This may be causing some confusion.

I don’t think that ticket barriers are covered, which isn’t to say that ANY activity still needs a risk assessment, e.g. about crowding in confined spaces.

 

[randyrippley]

So if the trains are your only option they are doing you a favour. Crush accidents have happened and things have been changed.

You do not have the infinite wisdom to change these things and whining like you are wont help.

This gets better and better. So trains are run to do us a favour? Really???
Crush accidents have happened and things have been changed? How about identifying the risk factors and changing them BEFORE the accident happens?
Who's whining? I only see that from you, trying to cover for your mates on the gates

 

[RealTrainBoi]

This gets better and better. So trains are run to do us a favour? Really???
Crush accidents have happened and things have been changed? How about identifying the risk factors and changing them BEFORE the accident happens?
Who's whining? I only see that from you, trying to cover for your mates on the gates

My guy, if the risk is so bad please explain to me how there has never been a crush accident at exc? Or at most major/minor busy stations?

Furthermore - yes the service is doing you a favour. I'm sure your travelling for a reason? And the fares arent decided by the TOC's so they are literally doing us - the travelling customer - a favour. Because otherwise you wouldn't get to your destination.

 

[randyrippley]

My guy, if the risk is so bad please explain to me how there has never been a crush accident at exc? Or at most major/minor busy stations?

Absence of accident does not imply absence of risk.

Furthermore - yes the service is doing you a favour. I'm sure your travelling for a reason? And the fares arent decided by the TOC's so they are literally doing us - the travelling customer - a favour. Because otherwise you wouldn't get to your destination.

Get real, no business runs as "a favour"

 

[Clip]

The passengers pay for a service, and that service does not include getting treated like cattle or being exposed to unsafe working practices

Whats unsafe about making people queue to go through the ticket barriers?

 

[packermac]

My guy, if the risk is so bad please explain to me how there has never been a crush accident at exc? Or at most major/minor busy stations?

Furthermore - yes the service is doing you a favour. I'm sure your travelling for a reason? And the fares arent decided by the TOC's so they are literally doing us - the travelling customer - a favour. Because otherwise you wouldn't get to your destination.

Whilst no fan of the nanny state modern day H & S ( I ended up suffering pain for two years due to H & S saying because I was six feet I must have my desk raised) it is everyone's responsibility to point out dangerous or potentially dangerous occurrences. If we had not had the fire at Kings Cross all those years ago we would probably still be at a major risk of a fire on the Underground. Safety evolves from previous events, risk assessments or people noticing something is wrong.
So the rail industry is doing its passengers a favour, probably the most bizarre comment I have read on this forum. I am sure all those that live in major conurbations and have to commute or those who try to be a little kind to the environment and not drive will be pleased to hear that.
I will certainly bear in mind next time I can finally find an SWR train to get on at Wareham that I have the recipient of a favour, however much it may be costing me for the privilege.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Has Exeter Central not got the ramp up the roundabout at Blackall Road anymore from the Exmouth-bound platform?

 

[RPI]

Yes PASSENGERS pay and thats the very point I was trying to get across to you. The passengers pay for a service, and that service does not include getting treated like cattle or being exposed to unsafe working practices. Or being told that what they experienced didn't happen


I suspect I grasp how employment works far better than you. And from what was said its clear that while the staff there may have had initial indoctrination training, their exposure to actual practical training wasn't enough to do the required job.
Not good enough when its both a safety critical role, and a role with possible legal consequences for the passenger if you get it wrong

Gateline is not safety critical.

If it was unsafe the staff would have opened the gates.

The gates have been there since 2010 and Central has I believe the highest footfall in Devon (entry and exit) and the staff there manage it both safely and efficiently, I really wont be coming back to this thread as all the questions have been answered and the keyboard warriors our out in force.

Cherio

 

[Llanigraham]

That is not realistic

It might be, so you cannot presume to answer for everyone.

When a crush injury happens on the gate or stairs they'll quickly find it is

I'm sorry, but you are now jumping to some very fanciful ideas!
Were you actually at Exeter Central to see this "incident"?
And from checking H & S reports for several years crush injuries are very rare, and all that I have found have been caused by panic during an evacuation, not by the general public queuing to get out of venues.

 

[philthetube]

Hardly chaos! A very slight inconvenience at most. Don't have a trip to Euston when 2 x 12 car LlNWR trains pull into the gated platforms at once..................

you forgot to mention the overground service bringing up the rear..

 

[richw]

So you claim the staff are trained, even though one of them stated here that only ONE appears to be trained and the rest are learning as they go.
There's an accusation of unsafe working in a way which you now seem to agree happened, but say is unusual whereas before you said it didn't happen. I see a degree of collective backside covering here.

both claims made by untrained and unqualified passengers...
Appears to be untrained, doesn’t mean they’re untrained it means the observer didn’t like the persons way of working.
If as described in the OP a ‘crush’ I somewhat doubt that was the Situation or we’d hear about injuries and local media definitely getting involved. I strongly suggest that is exaggerated and what we really had is a handful of impatient passengers trying to push through.
Exeter gateline staff are some of the best about and do their job excellently well. Seems some passengers just don’t like staff doing their job right. I had a good Yap at EXD around my unusual ticket type.

 

[embers25]

Gateline is not safety critical.

If it was unsafe the staff would have opened the gates.

The gates have been there since 2010 and Central has I believe the highest footfall in Devon (entry and exit) and the staff there manage it both safely and efficiently, I really wont be coming back to this thread as all the questions have been answered and the keyboard warriors our out in force.

Cherio

There is certiainly NOTHING efficient about the gateline staff at Central. To FGW_DID, you'll actually find this thread has gone the usual way (but not how you describe). Read it and you'll find it's the staff first claiming they are right, then others including staff refusing to acknowledge they could ever be anything wrong as rail staff are perfect, then saying don't like it don't travel. When you use a service, you expect safety and staff competence, I fail to see why we all should just accept that neither apply on the railway, is it is inconvenient for some rail staff, like those at Central. Read through the PAGES of threads on Paddington GWR gateline staff issues and you'll see their training far from equips them to do their job effectively (equally many just decide they know better). This is the same training the Central staff got and shock and horror, they have the same awful customer service attitude and some poor level of competence.
On safety, H&S is all about identifying and mitigating risk BEFORE accidents happen to help prevent them. Gateline installation and operation works the reverse way round and at Central it is pure luck there hasn't been a serious accident and that is not down to the staff knowing when to open gates as, from the gateline, you can't even see properly down the steps to know if there was a safety issue. If any safety issue was to arise, the gateline staff would be oblivious to it until the platform staff notified them somehow so they are hardly in control of the situation at all, whatever you may think or say. Also, if another train arrives, platform staff are also oblivious, meaning the stairway is completely unmonitored by anyone.

 

[randyrippley]

Yep, this thread is definitely going down a familiar path: gateline and RP staff coming out of the woodwork to denigrate passengers and claim that the passengers shared experiences never happened.
I can't think of another industry where customer concerns are treated as untruths

 

[FGW_DID]

If they need more training perhaps we should send them to the same place you did your Gateline training, perhaps you could teach the course because I am presuming that you are indeed qualified & competent, obviously more so than 99% of front line rail staff apparently!

Doesn’t anybody find it rather strange that the ‘experts’ who inhabit various parts of this forum, don’t actually work on the railway, such a lot of wasted talent!

 

[randyrippley]

If they need more training perhaps we should send them to the same place you did your Gateline training, perhaps you could teach the course because I am presuming that you are indeed qualified & competent, obviously more so than 99% of front line rail staff apparently!

Doesn’t anybody find it rather strange that the ‘experts’ who inhabit various parts of this forum, don’t actually work on the railway, such a lot of wasted talent!

If untrained passengers can see a safety issue where you corporately blinkered talking heads can't then maybe there is a major fault in your training

 

[LMS 4F]

I have recieved a reply from GWR to my Email pointing out what I had experienced at Exeter Central on the 14-12-19.
They assure me that safety is their highest priority and that my comments have been passed to the manager at that location, and this person will ensure this doesn't happen again.
I am left to wonder why this person didn't know about what appears to be a regular occurrence according to posts on here. As to whether it will not happen again as I have no plans to return to Exeter in the near or long term future then I will leave it to someone else to monitor the situation.

 

[Steve Harris]

I see this thread is going true to forum form:

A) all rail staff are rude/untrained/uneducated and don’t know what they are talking about.
B) People who don’t and haven’t worked on the railway let alone doing revenue / tickets = instant experts on all things railway especially ticketing / revenue, timetabling, diagramming, signalling, rolling stock maintenance etc etc

What a very true post but you also missed out

C) I work on the railway and what I post is true because I say so and don't question it.


This forum works both ways for Staff and non staff. It's all about respect for each other and learning from each other. As contrary to belief, no one knows everything.

 

[yorkie]

This forum works both ways for Staff and non staff. It's all about respect for each other and learning from each other. As contrary to belief, no one knows everything.

Very true!

The key is not to try to know everything, but to know that there are things you don't know, and on how/where to find the answers