First South West (Kernow & Buses of Somerset)

[Andyh82]

So when you saw '2020 vision' you expected Kernow to run services at the same time along the same routes as GCB?

At least GCB are trying something different, no matter if it works or not

Hopefully March will give us all the definition we are after

Why would you expect them to give up some of the routes that they run now, that they know the passenger numbers, and know if they might be borderline commercial if they do something a bit different, and instead just let Go Ahead run them and instead come up with some completely new link, where they have no idea how popular it would be?

I expect the 2020 vision is about reshaping the business without the tendered contracts and making the commercial services work better, not just replacing the lost vehicle mileage with a load of new routes.

 

[carlberry]

At least GCB are trying something different, no matter if it works or not

I dont understand what you mean by 'GCB are trying something different'. They're running some contracts for the council, that isn't innovative or different, it's been done my numerous operators for many years. This is a bigger contract than most but I cant see anything about it that's different.

 

[carlberry]

Presumably ex London. Ensign has built up a fair business doing these conversions.

From Ross Newman at Ensign, part of an email to another group covering Ensign's sales during Feb, obviously this could be nothing to do with Cornwall as it dosent quote the specific company.

VEHICLES OUT.

E400’s LK08FND / NVN / NVP : First Group, all converted to part open top.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

So when you saw '2020 vision' you expected Kernow to run services at the same time along the same routes as GCB?

Well, yes. When a similar tendering exercise took place in Dorset (in which AC and MMH were involved), both First and Go Ahead made tactical registrations of a similar nature.

Travelling patterns are well established so a rash of entirely new services, at FK's commercial risk whilst allowing PCB to operate on established routes on which FK have the passenger data, would seem highly unlikely. The 2020 vision is a strategic plan over X years? We don't even know what is contained within and the timetable for delivery.

At least GCB are trying something different, no matter if it works or not

As @carlberry says, GCB are merely providers to the council. Any innovation is coming from CC and, to be fair, most of the services GCB are replacements for existing tenders, or modest enhancements.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

From Ross Newman at Ensign, part of an email to another group covering Ensign's sales during Feb, obviously this could be nothing to do with Cornwall as it dosent quote the specific company.

VEHICLES OUT.

E400’s LK08FND / NVN / NVP : First Group, all converted to part open top.

The first one is at Bright Bus for use in Edinburgh, and suspect the others probably are going that way too

 

[richw]

From Ross Newman at Ensign, part of an email to another group covering Ensign's sales during Feb, obviously this could be nothing to do with Cornwall as it dosent quote the specific company.

VEHICLES OUT.

E400’s LK08FND / NVN / NVP : First Group, all converted to part open top.

We’ve had it confirmed E400 are the additional 7 open toppers.
From a reliable source albeit nothing official I heard today It’s believed to be 2008/9 vehicles from Ensign. As above at least one of these vehicles has turned to Scotland, although I’d expect similar conversions to Kernow.

regarding twitter/Facebook, First are very good at communicating via these streams, citybus not so good. I was at padstow recently waiting time for an A5, and the last two 11A had no showed, nothing on social media. I contacted a friend who is senior at citybus and found out for the passengers what was going on. most passengers don’t recognise who is who so it’s more a case of showing And caring for all of the bus industry.

 

[Nickincornwall]

Why would you expect them to give up some of the routes that they run now, that they know the passenger numbers, and know if they might be borderline commercial if they do something a bit different, and instead just let Go Ahead run them and instead come up with some completely new link, where they have no idea how popular it would be?

I expect the 2020 vision is about reshaping the business without the tendered contracts and making the commercial services work better, not just replacing the lost vehicle mileage with a load of new routes.

I think you forget one important point about the tenders.

The tenders are based on replacing what Cornwall Council wants covered versus what companies like first kernow say they will operate and can operate commercially. So first had ample opportunity to register commercial routes in addition to the traditional commercial routes, nobody took the routes or journeys off the company. Or it could be that first were trying to maximise income by getting subsidy for routes they could operate commercially.

Now responding to the daft of gradual change, while I can see that, my guess is that some drivers will be left sitting around being paid because there are no buses to drive which is equally bad. It goes back to what I posted earlier, where is the what if plan?

 

[Nickincornwall]

I dont understand what you mean by 'GCB are trying something different'. They're running some contracts for the council, that isn't innovative or different, it's been done my numerous operators for many years. This is a bigger contract than most but I cant see anything about it that's different.

There are a few things different, route 176, the Newquay to Redruth. Add additional journies on Sunday on the 27 earlier and later Sunday journeys on the 24 need I go on.

Like first kernow I expect the commercial journeys to cone later from gcb.

I doubt if there will b e any further new vehicles for first kernow in the foreseeable future whereas we know 100 new vehicle will be delivered to gcb

 

[Nickincornwall]

You just have to follow PCB and Kernow on twitter to see just how much better Kernow are on both the number of breakdowns and on the speed of replacement. Also Kernow have far less staffing issues that PCB already do. I am certainly no fan of First at all but Nickinconwall's very blinkered view of PCB is not at all reflective of the day to day reality of travelling on PCB and Kernow. Summercourt are also hardly a gold star operator and will not exactly enhance PCB's operations. I agree that the apparent curent mess will sort itself out but ultimately it will cost the council and this will be seen as a mistake of equal magnitude to the disaster in Dorset and the Buses in Sheffield mess.

I live in Plymouth and see pcb operations daily and I don't recognise the fact that kernow is a better operator. First are an operator of high cost and actually they do have staffing issues which involve turnover of drivers and some with attitudes. The issue with first us that outside the t and u services everything else is low frequency. First have new buses but frankly the cleanliness is worse than older darts on the pcb fleet and I suspect the Stagecoach Plymouth fleet. Externally we know winter is a, bad time to keep external cleaning up to scratch but internally it is sad to see new vehicles in a condition which clearly shows that cleaning is a low priority. Passengers want clean buses, reliable buses, affordable buses going where and when they need then to go. As an established operation first should be able to get most of it right, but when it is cheaper to drive than go by bus we'll the business has failed.

The 11a is a very difficult route because of its length with the 11 and given recent accidents and storms the 11a would gd all victim. Now we know gcb is, setting up outlets in truro and Liskeard at the less abc if they follow Plymouth Royal parade I guess the observation you made will be less likely to happen

 

[carlberry]

There are a few things different, route 176, the Newquay to Redruth. Add additional journies on Sunday on the 27 earlier and later Sunday journeys on the 24 need I go on.

Like first kernow I expect the commercial journeys to cone later from gcb.

I doubt if there will b e any further new vehicles for first kernow in the foreseeable future whereas we know 100 new vehicle will be delivered to gcb

I may be missing some vital point here, however I still cant see how this proves that 'GCB are doing something different'. Cornwall county council have asked somebody to run the above services (some of which are new) and have paid Go to do it. This is the same as has been happening since 1986; a council decides what it can pay for and an operator runs it.

If Go register commercial services then they may do something truly different (i.e. something that's not already provided), however it's more likely that they'll just register over existing routes which, again, isn't 'different'.

The only new thing that's going on so far is that Cornwall have some money to improve bus services and, in the near future, to reduce fares.

 

[Nickincornwall]

I may be missing some vital point here, however I still cant see how this proves that 'GCB are doing something different'. Cornwall county council have asked somebody to run the above services (some of which are new) and have paid Go to do it. This is the same as has been happening since 1986; a council decides what it can pay for and an operator runs it.

If Go register commercial services then they may do something truly different (i.e. something that's not already provided), however it's more likely that they'll just register over existing routes which, again, isn't 'different'.

The only new thing that's going on so far is that Cornwall have some money to improve bus services and, in the near future, to reduce fares.

Well no you actually don't understand the system.

The tendering authority puts out a tender specifying the service, standards required and other relevant parts of the contract (in the case of stagecoach for rail pensions). The company tendering must submit a compliant bid to remain in contention (where stagecoach rail failed). After that however the bidder can put in bids that enhance or downgrade the tender. The bidder can also package a number of tenders or in this case all the tenders into one big package.

Now in the past First and Western Greyhound both packaged groups of tenders together at a discount in the individual tender prices. Western Greyhound and Truronian would also submit bids that enhanced the service or changed the route to cover more population centres, first did not go this aspect.

In the past the overriding factor was price, however the council publicised that these tenders would be decided 60% on quality, 40% on price because Cornwall Council wanted a transport mode change from he private car to public transport. Hence the investment in rail to double mainline frequencies and get most branch lines onto clock face timetables and I suspect this will hurt the tonner Services as the rail service is faster and cheaper than the bus thus the to e vehicle of the bus needs to be to feed into the rail service as in Newcastle, West Midlands etc.

SO pcb utilising it's experts actually adopted the Western Greyhound bidding approach but although we know the council did enhance the service requirements gcb will have enhanced the service provision involved in bidding.

One other factor which undoubtedly had to be considered by the council is that as the contract base length is eight years the council had to take into account if the bidder was likely to fulfil the contract. Gcb backed by Go Ahead and a profitable group expanding both at home and overseas would be no issue. But firstgroup chose this period to announce that in an attempt to satisfy its shareholders (of which I am one) that it would concentrate on America and Rail and sell off or float is bus businesses. Given this background and sales made to Go Ahead of a Manchester Depot and sales of Redditch, Kidderminster and another Manchester depot to Rotala then Cornwall Council could not guarantee that First Kernow was as secure a bet as Go Ahead backed gcb.

First shareholders have not received dividends in years because the group has been loosing money which the council will also have checked.

The fact that now firstgroup now says the bus sake us in hold is of no help to first kernow and us frustrating to us as shareholders. We want a viable group. We want an exosnding group because one that contracts heads in the wrong direction.

What first shows us is that it's bus companies need strong local management based in the operation area and an enquiry customer line based in the area not as First have it based in Leeds, how us that having your finger on the pulse.

Now no operation is perfect but the best I believe is natex wm, they know, their market and have dominated the, area since PTE Days because, fares are low, they feed into the, rail network provide services commercially at most times of the, day. Go ahead tried to compete against natex and could not because natex is a Birmingham based company it is local run by local people despite being a, national company. Its other bus operation run on the same standards is Xplore Dundee. Both natex And Go Ahead are expanding whereas Arriva owned by dB are up for sale, Stagecoach are rationalising following First earlier attempts.

You have to understand the tender process and having operated in both the West Midlands and, Cornwall I know the ins and outs of tenders

Both first and gcb will add to their networks on a commercial basis

 

[richw]

Debate is great, but how about we inject some fact into it…

MB162435 said: ↑↑

Sensible it isn't, if the GCB bus comes first everyone will get on that and not the commercial kernow bus., Kernow needs the bums on seats more than GCB. What I was expecting is areas to be connected that aren't currently, or with increased services, like the return of services every 10 minutes between Camborne and Truro. Sensible it isn't not in the long run, maybe in the Summer but not in the winter, why scrap the 93, only to increase the A5 when GCB is running the 56 but not the 93?

Yes Kernow have to make a profit but they are already doing that, they are just trying to annoy GCB/CC and not benefit the people of Cornwall, all we are going to have is convoy of buses on some routes and none at all in many areas

You’re clearly not understanding. There isn’t going to be the two operators running together. The next part of the registration process if for Cornwall Council to remove the tendered journeys and routes that have been registered commercially by Kernow.

It’s nothing to do with Kernow ‘trying to annoy people’. This is just the registration process taking it’s course within the wider tendering process.

Nickincornwall said: ↑

What you have to look at is if the conflicting journies are subsidised, that means the timings must be within a certain tolerance. On the A5 the PCB service is hourly Monday to Fridays, Two Hourly Saturday and Sunday BUT Hourly to Newquay Airport- First Kernow is every 90 minutes when operational, so very little would fall within the conflicts rules. That is of course if First Kernow manage to actually maintain the service with their aged Tridents, which last year suffered from numerous Breakdowns.

On the 24 on Sundays PCB is outside the conflicts zone and runs earlier and later managing to get workers of shops into work and back from the Fowey/Par direction - something the First Kernow service has in the past and continues to not look at this aspect of travel.

There is only one way to increase bus ridership getting people out of their cars- you have to cater for the whole travel needs of your target group. National Express West Midlands do this very well as do fellow Go Ahead companies- Go North East, Brighton and Hove and Go South Coast. First as a Group are to quote the rail commentators terrible at running buses, I say they are risk averse and if you wish to run services commercially you have to take risks.

Let me mention this - when First came back into the St Austell area against Western Greyhound the 24- Fowey to St Austell was Half Hourly and worked, the 21 St Austell to Newquay was commercial. Now under 2020 vision the 21 is not commercial and the 24 is hourly despite the greater number of houses built in Newquay and Par and St Austell. So the post about the lack of vision of 2020 vision is in my view correct. I and sure that PCB with the expertise in Cornwall that personnel there have will in time ensure the services they run are as commercial as you can get whereas First Kernow have not seemingly learnt for their past and need to listen to their Cornish employees rather than those from outside the county. In essence this is the difference between a First Company and a Go AheadCompany.

Finally for the idiocy that Kernow are putting a strapline on their buses of Proper Cornish buses let me point out- First is a Scottish Group based in Aberdeen and run by people from outside Cornwall. PCB is part of an English Group based in Newcastle and run by local managers it maybe based in Plymouth nominally BUT the managers are local people living in Plymouth and Cornwall

The A5 /56 registrations are actually very similar. It’s clear Kernow have registered commercially the route. It was only tendered for Winter anyway. Kernow has just brought the summer commercial operation forward.

The ‘aged Tridents’ are being replaced. The replacements have been sourced. Keep up!


Increasing bus ridership – Cornwall bucked the national trend of a 1.7% fall in patronage in the figures released recently – by getting 5% growth. That was concentrated on the Kernow commercial network, with growth figures hitting 12% and 15%. Again – keep up!

Back to the ‘when Western Greyhound were running’ saga…

1. WG went bust
2. Kernow ran against them with a combined higher frequency because they chose a few routes including that one to take them on
So First haven’t learnt anything – highest negative margin (loss) First bus business to the 3rd highest margin (profit). Growth bucking the national trend – yes, keep up!

It’s ‘Proper Job – real Cornish buses’ that they have put on their buses. You’re choosing to read it as something to do with Go Ahead. It actually appeared first on 53040 in mid 2019. But if you want to get really narked, how about the fact that 100% of Kernow’s drivers – the very people the public interact with – are from Cornwall – while Go Ahead are booking hotels for the drivers they need to bring in from across the UK and the agency drivers from outside Cornwall that they are currently advertising for?

If you think Kernow don’t have the support of their drivers, and that Go Ahead are the dogs b******, ask yourself why Kernow’s drivers and other staff simply aren’t interested in moving to Go Ahead, despite all the cash and holiday incentives!

MB162435

Thank you, someone who actually understands what I'm getting at. Problem is not everyone likes change, so instantly reject GCB and back team Kernow, even thoKernow will survive no matter what

Kernow has the opportunity to build on their existing network but instead they are keeping what they got, even when they have needed CC to support those services all these years. What they have proposed so far is around tourists and college students, they made it sound brilliant but in fact itswhat we already had in 2019 with a few tweaks.

If Traveline shows Kernow's 2020 vision in full, it's fallen flat. Hopefully it doesn't and there is more exciting developments to come. If not, I hope May or September brings real change or at least something different to actually benefit people. I think GCB is proposing real change to benefit everyone, Kernow is just targeting specific markets

You clearly haven’t seen 2020 Vision – which is the overview of the wider Cornwall business plan. In the absence of any actual knowledge about 2020 Vision, you’re resorting to assumption and supposition, but passing it off as fact,

GoAhead aren’t proposing real change. They are operating Cornwall Council’s tenders under contract. If any of it is innovative (if) then that’s down to Cornwall Council – and being funded by Cornwall Council taxpers – for a tender price £2.7m a year above the original budget.

NickinCornwall

The very last thing GCB needs to do is sub contract back to First Kernow. They are sub contracting to Ots and Summercourt as, we know but First Kernow have breakdowns daily and in any event I am sure GCB will have everything under control.

On Go Ahead, East Anglia it is a small operation expanding if first withdraw from areas, which is, happening in Clacton. SOUTH Oxfordshire I am unaware of however I am positive group will bring it into line assuming the local authority actions allow that to occur.

Even t h e best group operations, suffer as, First Bristol is, suffering from local authority actions, which are wrecking the operations, reliability. I congratulate James Freeman for naming and shaming in this unlike first normal policy of covering it up. I think James for his actions is more respected than a subsidiary who is easy going.

Local authorities are a part of the puzzle and part of first kernow failure on the Cornwall tenders was the uncertainty of group. Like there being no what of plan at kernow, group came up with a plan to get rid of the bus, division which probably was part cause of kernow loss of tenders only to now put a halt on. Groups plans seem to last says rather than years and business and councils need certainty

Good to hear that you are sure they have everything under control. Like the 200 drivers they need, and the engineering and support staff that Corserv need to maintain their buses.

Positive Go Ahead will ‘bring it into line’ (South Oxfordshire – and East Anglia) – you are very ‘glass half full’ aren’t

As for ‘part of first kernow failure on the Cornwall tenders was the uncertainty of group. Like there being no what of plan at kernow’ why don’t you start such statements with ‘I think that maybe’, instead of passing off your complteleyunsubstantiated supposition as fact. Unless you’re going to claim to be a Cornwall Council Procurement of staff with detailed knowledge of the qualitative scoring of the tenders?

 

[Nickincornwall]

Debate is great, but how about we inject some fact into it…

MB162435 said: ↑↑

Sensible it isn't, if the GCB bus comes first everyone will get on that and not the commercial kernow bus., Kernow needs the bums on seats more than GCB. What I was expecting is areas to be connected that aren't currently, or with increased services, like the return of services every 10 minutes between Camborne and Truro. Sensible it isn't not in the long run, maybe in the Summer but not in the winter, why scrap the 93, only to increase the A5 when GCB is running the 56 but not the 93?

Yes Kernow have to make a profit but they are already doing that, they are just trying to annoy GCB/CC and not benefit the people of Cornwall, all we are going to have is convoy of buses on some routes and none at all in many areas

You’re clearly not understanding. There isn’t going to be the two operators running together. The next part of the registration process if for Cornwall Council to remove the tendered journeys and routes that have been registered commercially by Kernow.

It’s nothing to do with Kernow ‘trying to annoy people’. This is just the registration process taking it’s course within the wider tendering process.

Nickincornwall said: ↑

What you have to look at is if the conflicting journies are subsidised, that means the timings must be within a certain tolerance. On the A5 the PCB service is hourly Monday to Fridays, Two Hourly Saturday and Sunday BUT Hourly to Newquay Airport- First Kernow is every 90 minutes when operational, so very little would fall within the conflicts rules. That is of course if First Kernow manage to actually maintain the service with their aged Tridents, which last year suffered from numerous Breakdowns.

On the 24 on Sundays PCB is outside the conflicts zone and runs earlier and later managing to get workers of shops into work and back from the Fowey/Par direction - something the First Kernow service has in the past and continues to not look at this aspect of travel.

There is only one way to increase bus ridership getting people out of their cars- you have to cater for the whole travel needs of your target group. National Express West Midlands do this very well as do fellow Go Ahead companies- Go North East, Brighton and Hove and Go South Coast. First as a Group are to quote the rail commentators terrible at running buses, I say they are risk averse and if you wish to run services commercially you have to take risks.

Let me mention this - when First came back into the St Austell area against Western Greyhound the 24- Fowey to St Austell was Half Hourly and worked, the 21 St Austell to Newquay was commercial. Now under 2020 vision the 21 is not commercial and the 24 is hourly despite the greater number of houses built in Newquay and Par and St Austell. So the post about the lack of vision of 2020 vision is in my view correct. I and sure that PCB with the expertise in Cornwall that personnel there have will in time ensure the services they run are as commercial as you can get whereas First Kernow have not seemingly learnt for their past and need to listen to their Cornish employees rather than those from outside the county. In essence this is the difference between a First Company and a Go AheadCompany.

Finally for the idiocy that Kernow are putting a strapline on their buses of Proper Cornish buses let me point out- First is a Scottish Group based in Aberdeen and run by people from outside Cornwall. PCB is part of an English Group based in Newcastle and run by local managers it maybe based in Plymouth nominally BUT the managers are local people living in Plymouth and Cornwall

The A5 /56 registrations are actually very similar. It’s clear Kernow have registered commercially the route. It was only tendered for Winter anyway. Kernow has just brought the summer commercial operation forward.

The ‘aged Tridents’ are being replaced. The replacements have been sourced. Keep up!


Increasing bus ridership – Cornwall bucked the national trend of a 1.7% fall in patronage in the figures released recently – by getting 5% growth. That was concentrated on the Kernow commercial network, with growth figures hitting 12% and 15%. Again – keep up!

Back to the ‘when Western Greyhound were running’ saga…

1. WG went bust
2. Kernow ran against them with a combined higher frequency because they chose a few routes including that one to take them on
So First haven’t learnt anything – highest negative margin (loss) First bus business to the 3rd highest margin (profit). Growth bucking the national trend – yes, keep up!

It’s ‘Proper Job – real Cornish buses’ that they have put on their buses. You’re choosing to read it as something to do with Go Ahead. It actually appeared first on 53040 in mid 2019. But if you want to get really narked, how about the fact that 100% of Kernow’s drivers – the very people the public interact with – are from Cornwall – while Go Ahead are booking hotels for the drivers they need to bring in from across the UK and the agency drivers from outside Cornwall that they are currently advertising for?

If you think Kernow don’t have the support of their drivers, and that Go Ahead are the dogs b******, ask yourself why Kernow’s drivers and other staff simply aren’t interested in moving to Go Ahead, despite all the cash and holiday incentives!

MB162435

Thank you, someone who actually understands what I'm getting at. Problem is not everyone likes change, so instantly reject GCB and back team Kernow, even thoKernow will survive no matter what

Kernow has the opportunity to build on their existing network but instead they are keeping what they got, even when they have needed CC to support those services all these years. What they have proposed so far is around tourists and college students, they made it sound brilliant but in fact itswhat we already had in 2019 with a few tweaks.

If Traveline shows Kernow's 2020 vision in full, it's fallen flat. Hopefully it doesn't and there is more exciting developments to come. If not, I hope May or September brings real change or at least something different to actually benefit people. I think GCB is proposing real change to benefit everyone, Kernow is just targeting specific markets

You clearly haven’t seen 2020 Vision – which is the overview of the wider Cornwall business plan. In the absence of any actual knowledge about 2020 Vision, you’re resorting to assumption and supposition, but passing it off as fact,

GoAhead aren’t proposing real change. They are operating Cornwall Council’s tenders under contract. If any of it is innovative (if) then that’s down to Cornwall Council – and being funded by Cornwall Council taxpers – for a tender price £2.7m a year above the original budget.

NickinCornwall

The very last thing GCB needs to do is sub contract back to First Kernow. They are sub contracting to Ots and Summercourt as, we know but First Kernow have breakdowns daily and in any event I am sure GCB will have everything under control.

On Go Ahead, East Anglia it is a small operation expanding if first withdraw from areas, which is, happening in Clacton. SOUTH Oxfordshire I am unaware of however I am positive group will bring it into line assuming the local authority actions allow that to occur.

Even t h e best group operations, suffer as, First Bristol is, suffering from local authority actions, which are wrecking the operations, reliability. I congratulate James Freeman for naming and shaming in this unlike first normal policy of covering it up. I think James for his actions is more respected than a subsidiary who is easy going.

Local authorities are a part of the puzzle and part of first kernow failure on the Cornwall tenders was the uncertainty of group. Like there being no what of plan at kernow, group came up with a plan to get rid of the bus, division which probably was part cause of kernow loss of tenders only to now put a halt on. Groups plans seem to last says rather than years and business and councils need certainty

Good to hear that you are sure they have everything under control. Like the 200 drivers they need, and the engineering and support staff that Corserv need to maintain their buses.

Positive Go Ahead will ‘bring it into line’ (South Oxfordshire – and East Anglia) – you are very ‘glass half full’ aren’t

As for ‘part of first kernow failure on the Cornwall tenders was the uncertainty of group. Like there being no what of plan at kernow’ why don’t you start such statements with ‘I think that maybe’, instead of passing off your complteleyunsubstantiated supposition as fact. Unless you’re going to claim to be a Cornwall Council Procurement of staff with detailed knowledge of the qualitative scoring of the tenders?

Richard nobody has called the first drivers bad. They have stayed with first because first have said no redundancies, some have been with first for years and won't be bothered to move if they have a limited time to go tty p retirement, there are many reasons. Yes initially drivers will be drafted in from outside the area as some of you will be asked to go help out other first areas that are short of drivers where they cannot attract sufficient drivers and it won't be the first time, I know the Olympic conract and Bristol have been helped by kernow fairly recently. And this is how, drivers will be used if they can stand doing this work, I know i would not like it.

But ask yourself this Richard, given that the Western Greyhound drivers were a decent lot I know that, most recruited by First are no longer at First. I do remember when greyhound took over the 24 from first Mark Howarth at the annual Newquay Lunch stated the services taken over from first had been run Down, the publicity had been bad as had been reliability and the services would take time to build up. Actually the 24 was traditionally one of the most profitable services on the network and your statement otherwise is nonsense, Before that I was meeting with The MD of First when the service had at the drivers suggestion and that of TAs been moved from the town loop to the main car park. The 24 was loss making until the MD took a suggestion of mine to ru the service from Safe Harbour to Par, Charlestown, St Austell and Mevagissey. Ex midland red minibuses were acquired the service went back to being profitable until a mark reddy came in as MD and replaced Mevagissey with St Dennis then withdrew Peak journies morning and afternoon allowing Western Greyhound onto the service all day. The Mevagissey service soldiered on until the service had a lunchbtrak every day whereas western greyhound did not. First also tried to get peak passengers to travel on the college bus, that did not work. You cannot mix a service with a college bus, it is a sad fact but it fails and one I learnt at Mud Warwickshire Motors in the Midlands.

On 2020 vision it is a policy document the only facts are actually what is registered to operate. And in St Austell whole routes lost are 21/22/25/30 plus journies on 24/27, St Bodmin the 55/95/96 are lost. Overall we know 16 e200 are being handed back to the council. The observations on the A5 & 56 are from traveline and what is registered to operate. Not superstition but fact Richard. My observation on the L1 versus gcb with a four hour gap registered between 1345 & 1745 is normally a disaster when your opponent is more consistent.

One fact Richard Kernow will only survive if it makes a profit, remember first closed north Devon when the competition commission blocked a sale to stagecoach, are withdrawing from Clacton as we speak. It is up to you all at Kernow to ensure you remain viable, if you don't you place your future at the mercy of first group and that is not as certain as go ahead or national express but more like stagecoach and arriva who just chop.

 

[Nickincornwall]

Debate is great, but how about we inject some fact into it…

MB162435 said: ↑↑

Sensible it isn't, if the GCB bus comes first everyone will get on that and not the commercial kernow bus., Kernow needs the bums on seats more than GCB. What I was expecting is areas to be connected that aren't currently, or with increased services, like the return of services every 10 minutes between Camborne and Truro. Sensible it isn't not in the long run, maybe in the Summer but not in the winter, why scrap the 93, only to increase the A5 when GCB is running the 56 but not the 93?

Yes Kernow have to make a profit but they are already doing that, they are just trying to annoy GCB/CC and not benefit the people of Cornwall, all we are going to have is convoy of buses on some routes and none at all in many areas

You’re clearly not understanding. There isn’t going to be the two operators running together. The next part of the registration process if for Cornwall Council to remove the tendered journeys and routes that have been registered commercially by Kernow.

It’s nothing to do with Kernow ‘trying to annoy people’. This is just the registration process taking it’s course within the wider tendering process.

Nickincornwall said: ↑

What you have to look at is if the conflicting journies are subsidised, that means the timings must be within a certain tolerance. On the A5 the PCB service is hourly Monday to Fridays, Two Hourly Saturday and Sunday BUT Hourly to Newquay Airport- First Kernow is every 90 minutes when operational, so very little would fall within the conflicts rules. That is of course if First Kernow manage to actually maintain the service with their aged Tridents, which last year suffered from numerous Breakdowns.

On the 24 on Sundays PCB is outside the conflicts zone and runs earlier and later managing to get workers of shops into work and back from the Fowey/Par direction - something the First Kernow service has in the past and continues to not look at this aspect of travel.

There is only one way to increase bus ridership getting people out of their cars- you have to cater for the whole travel needs of your target group. National Express West Midlands do this very well as do fellow Go Ahead companies- Go North East, Brighton and Hove and Go South Coast. First as a Group are to quote the rail commentators terrible at running buses, I say they are risk averse and if you wish to run services commercially you have to take risks.

Let me mention this - when First came back into the St Austell area against Western Greyhound the 24- Fowey to St Austell was Half Hourly and worked, the 21 St Austell to Newquay was commercial. Now under 2020 vision the 21 is not commercial and the 24 is hourly despite the greater number of houses built in Newquay and Par and St Austell. So the post about the lack of vision of 2020 vision is in my view correct. I and sure that PCB with the expertise in Cornwall that personnel there have will in time ensure the services they run are as commercial as you can get whereas First Kernow have not seemingly learnt for their past and need to listen to their Cornish employees rather than those from outside the county. In essence this is the difference between a First Company and a Go AheadCompany.

Finally for the idiocy that Kernow are putting a strapline on their buses of Proper Cornish buses let me point out- First is a Scottish Group based in Aberdeen and run by people from outside Cornwall. PCB is part of an English Group based in Newcastle and run by local managers it maybe based in Plymouth nominally BUT the managers are local people living in Plymouth and Cornwall

The A5 /56 registrations are actually very similar. It’s clear Kernow have registered commercially the route. It was only tendered for Winter anyway. Kernow has just brought the summer commercial operation forward.

The ‘aged Tridents’ are being replaced. The replacements have been sourced. Keep up!


Increasing bus ridership – Cornwall bucked the national trend of a 1.7% fall in patronage in the figures released recently – by getting 5% growth. That was concentrated on the Kernow commercial network, with growth figures hitting 12% and 15%. Again – keep up!

Back to the ‘when Western Greyhound were running’ saga…

1. WG went bust
2. Kernow ran against them with a combined higher frequency because they chose a few routes including that one to take them on
So First haven’t learnt anything – highest negative margin (loss) First bus business to the 3rd highest margin (profit). Growth bucking the national trend – yes, keep up!

It’s ‘Proper Job – real Cornish buses’ that they have put on their buses. You’re choosing to read it as something to do with Go Ahead. It actually appeared first on 53040 in mid 2019. But if you want to get really narked, how about the fact that 100% of Kernow’s drivers – the very people the public interact with – are from Cornwall – while Go Ahead are booking hotels for the drivers they need to bring in from across the UK and the agency drivers from outside Cornwall that they are currently advertising for?

If you think Kernow don’t have the support of their drivers, and that Go Ahead are the dogs b******, ask yourself why Kernow’s drivers and other staff simply aren’t interested in moving to Go Ahead, despite all the cash and holiday incentives!

MB162435

Thank you, someone who actually understands what I'm getting at. Problem is not everyone likes change, so instantly reject GCB and back team Kernow, even thoKernow will survive no matter what

Kernow has the opportunity to build on their existing network but instead they are keeping what they got, even when they have needed CC to support those services all these years. What they have proposed so far is around tourists and college students, they made it sound brilliant but in fact itswhat we already had in 2019 with a few tweaks.

If Traveline shows Kernow's 2020 vision in full, it's fallen flat. Hopefully it doesn't and there is more exciting developments to come. If not, I hope May or September brings real change or at least something different to actually benefit people. I think GCB is proposing real change to benefit everyone, Kernow is just targeting specific markets

You clearly haven’t seen 2020 Vision – which is the overview of the wider Cornwall business plan. In the absence of any actual knowledge about 2020 Vision, you’re resorting to assumption and supposition, but passing it off as fact,

GoAhead aren’t proposing real change. They are operating Cornwall Council’s tenders under contract. If any of it is innovative (if) then that’s down to Cornwall Council – and being funded by Cornwall Council taxpers – for a tender price £2.7m a year above the original budget.

NickinCornwall

The very last thing GCB needs to do is sub contract back to First Kernow. They are sub contracting to Ots and Summercourt as, we know but First Kernow have breakdowns daily and in any event I am sure GCB will have everything under control.

On Go Ahead, East Anglia it is a small operation expanding if first withdraw from areas, which is, happening in Clacton. SOUTH Oxfordshire I am unaware of however I am positive group will bring it into line assuming the local authority actions allow that to occur.

Even t h e best group operations, suffer as, First Bristol is, suffering from local authority actions, which are wrecking the operations, reliability. I congratulate James Freeman for naming and shaming in this unlike first normal policy of covering it up. I think James for his actions is more respected than a subsidiary who is easy going.

Local authorities are a part of the puzzle and part of first kernow failure on the Cornwall tenders was the uncertainty of group. Like there being no what of plan at kernow, group came up with a plan to get rid of the bus, division which probably was part cause of kernow loss of tenders only to now put a halt on. Groups plans seem to last says rather than years and business and councils need certainty

Good to hear that you are sure they have everything under control. Like the 200 drivers they need, and the engineering and support staff that Corserv need to maintain their buses.

Positive Go Ahead will ‘bring it into line’ (South Oxfordshire – and East Anglia) – you are very ‘glass half full’ aren’t

As for ‘part of first kernow failure on the Cornwall tenders was the uncertainty of group. Like there being no what of plan at kernow’ why don’t you start such statements with ‘I think that maybe’, instead of passing off your complteleyunsubstantiated supposition as fact. Unless you’re going to claim to be a Cornwall Council Procurement of staff with detailed knowledge of the qualitative scoring of the tenders?

The information is that gcb is driver covered at this point.
Yes I am a glass half full person and I know Go Ahead group and it is run totally differently to firstgroup and it has been sucessful so far. As for pcb here in Plymouth and South East Cornwall it is valued by the population and has served the area well in an improveming basis since the go ahead aquistion, as indeed the ex First Manchester depots is having to be reinvigorated by Go Ahead as indeed Rotala is doing the same to its Manchester aquistion.

I suspect internally first managers are thinking gcb will fail, I don't the that is an option anymore than it would have been if first had won the contract but this was a game changer an eight year contract with a two year extension possible making investment viable.

Richard I may not be part of Cornwall Council but I know how they work and the last thing they would want is a western grethound and maybe given the failure of Halton Transport a local authority operator which ceased trading cause it was bust, they are right to be cautious. I have spent 40 years in the industry so I think my observations and statements are valid when they look at registrations and while I won't divulge confidences of info given to me believe me I am concerned as a shareholder for kernow whereas as a Go Ahead shareholder I am not at all concerned. Yes I have share both in first and go ahead

 

[MB162435]

Debate is great, but how about we inject some fact into it…

MB162435 said: ↑↑

Sensible it isn't, if the GCB bus comes first everyone will get on that and not the commercial kernow bus., Kernow needs the bums on seats more than GCB. What I was expecting is areas to be connected that aren't currently, or with increased services, like the return of services every 10 minutes between Camborne and Truro. Sensible it isn't not in the long run, maybe in the Summer but not in the winter, why scrap the 93, only to increase the A5 when GCB is running the 56 but not the 93?

Yes Kernow have to make a profit but they are already doing that, they are just trying to annoy GCB/CC and not benefit the people of Cornwall, all we are going to have is convoy of buses on some routes and none at all in many areas

You’re clearly not understanding. There isn’t going to be the two operators running together. The next part of the registration process if for Cornwall Council to remove the tendered journeys and routes that have been registered commercially by Kernow.

It’s nothing to do with Kernow ‘trying to annoy people’. This is just the registration process taking it’s course within the wider tendering process.

Nickincornwall said: ↑

What you have to look at is if the conflicting journies are subsidised, that means the timings must be within a certain tolerance. On the A5 the PCB service is hourly Monday to Fridays, Two Hourly Saturday and Sunday BUT Hourly to Newquay Airport- First Kernow is every 90 minutes when operational, so very little would fall within the conflicts rules. That is of course if First Kernow manage to actually maintain the service with their aged Tridents, which last year suffered from numerous Breakdowns.

On the 24 on Sundays PCB is outside the conflicts zone and runs earlier and later managing to get workers of shops into work and back from the Fowey/Par direction - something the First Kernow service has in the past and continues to not look at this aspect of travel.

There is only one way to increase bus ridership getting people out of their cars- you have to cater for the whole travel needs of your target group. National Express West Midlands do this very well as do fellow Go Ahead companies- Go North East, Brighton and Hove and Go South Coast. First as a Group are to quote the rail commentators terrible at running buses, I say they are risk averse and if you wish to run services commercially you have to take risks.

Let me mention this - when First came back into the St Austell area against Western Greyhound the 24- Fowey to St Austell was Half Hourly and worked, the 21 St Austell to Newquay was commercial. Now under 2020 vision the 21 is not commercial and the 24 is hourly despite the greater number of houses built in Newquay and Par and St Austell. So the post about the lack of vision of 2020 vision is in my view correct. I and sure that PCB with the expertise in Cornwall that personnel there have will in time ensure the services they run are as commercial as you can get whereas First Kernow have not seemingly learnt for their past and need to listen to their Cornish employees rather than those from outside the county. In essence this is the difference between a First Company and a Go AheadCompany.

Finally for the idiocy that Kernow are putting a strapline on their buses of Proper Cornish buses let me point out- First is a Scottish Group based in Aberdeen and run by people from outside Cornwall. PCB is part of an English Group based in Newcastle and run by local managers it maybe based in Plymouth nominally BUT the managers are local people living in Plymouth and Cornwall

The A5 /56 registrations are actually very similar. It’s clear Kernow have registered commercially the route. It was only tendered for Winter anyway. Kernow has just brought the summer commercial operation forward.

The ‘aged Tridents’ are being replaced. The replacements have been sourced. Keep up!


Increasing bus ridership – Cornwall bucked the national trend of a 1.7% fall in patronage in the figures released recently – by getting 5% growth. That was concentrated on the Kernow commercial network, with growth figures hitting 12% and 15%. Again – keep up!

Back to the ‘when Western Greyhound were running’ saga…

1. WG went bust
2. Kernow ran against them with a combined higher frequency because they chose a few routes including that one to take them on
So First haven’t learnt anything – highest negative margin (loss) First bus business to the 3rd highest margin (profit). Growth bucking the national trend – yes, keep up!

It’s ‘Proper Job – real Cornish buses’ that they have put on their buses. You’re choosing to read it as something to do with Go Ahead. It actually appeared first on 53040 in mid 2019. But if you want to get really narked, how about the fact that 100% of Kernow’s drivers – the very people the public interact with – are from Cornwall – while Go Ahead are booking hotels for the drivers they need to bring in from across the UK and the agency drivers from outside Cornwall that they are currently advertising for?

If you think Kernow don’t have the support of their drivers, and that Go Ahead are the dogs b******, ask yourself why Kernow’s drivers and other staff simply aren’t interested in moving to Go Ahead, despite all the cash and holiday incentives!

MB162435

Thank you, someone who actually understands what I'm getting at. Problem is not everyone likes change, so instantly reject GCB and back team Kernow, even thoKernow will survive no matter what

Kernow has the opportunity to build on their existing network but instead they are keeping what they got, even when they have needed CC to support those services all these years. What they have proposed so far is around tourists and college students, they made it sound brilliant but in fact itswhat we already had in 2019 with a few tweaks.

If Traveline shows Kernow's 2020 vision in full, it's fallen flat. Hopefully it doesn't and there is more exciting developments to come. If not, I hope May or September brings real change or at least something different to actually benefit people. I think GCB is proposing real change to benefit everyone, Kernow is just targeting specific markets

You clearly haven’t seen 2020 Vision – which is the overview of the wider Cornwall business plan. In the absence of any actual knowledge about 2020 Vision, you’re resorting to assumption and supposition, but passing it off as fact,

GoAhead aren’t proposing real change. They are operating Cornwall Council’s tenders under contract. If any of it is innovative (if) then that’s down to Cornwall Council – and being funded by Cornwall Council taxpers – for a tender price £2.7m a year above the original budget.

NickinCornwall

The very last thing GCB needs to do is sub contract back to First Kernow. They are sub contracting to Ots and Summercourt as, we know but First Kernow have breakdowns daily and in any event I am sure GCB will have everything under control.

On Go Ahead, East Anglia it is a small operation expanding if first withdraw from areas, which is, happening in Clacton. SOUTH Oxfordshire I am unaware of however I am positive group will bring it into line assuming the local authority actions allow that to occur.

Even t h e best group operations, suffer as, First Bristol is, suffering from local authority actions, which are wrecking the operations, reliability. I congratulate James Freeman for naming and shaming in this unlike first normal policy of covering it up. I think James for his actions is more respected than a subsidiary who is easy going.

Local authorities are a part of the puzzle and part of first kernow failure on the Cornwall tenders was the uncertainty of group. Like there being no what of plan at kernow, group came up with a plan to get rid of the bus, division which probably was part cause of kernow loss of tenders only to now put a halt on. Groups plans seem to last says rather than years and business and councils need certainty

Good to hear that you are sure they have everything under control. Like the 200 drivers they need, and the engineering and support staff that Corserv need to maintain their buses.

Positive Go Ahead will ‘bring it into line’ (South Oxfordshire – and East Anglia) – you are very ‘glass half full’ aren’t

As for ‘part of first kernow failure on the Cornwall tenders was the uncertainty of group. Like there being no what of plan at kernow’ why don’t you start such statements with ‘I think that maybe’, instead of passing off your complteleyunsubstantiated supposition as fact. Unless you’re going to claim to be a Cornwall Council Procurement of staff with detailed knowledge of the qualitative scoring of the tenders?

When did I pass it off as 'fact', that's your assumption not mine. I certainly hope you don't think I'm spreading false information or lying, I wouldn't appreciate that if you are

Kernow need to get on and actually give some indication to what this vision is then, 2 months has gone by and nobody is any of the wiser. I did say I hope there is plenty of exciting of developments to come, so I'm not trying to say I've read or seen it, that's what you just presume

What some in this forum need to do is get rid of this GCB is 'going to be rubbish' attitude, I know you want Kernow to succeed for obvious reasons, GCB is offering routes between places and at times Kernow hasn't. I'm not saying Kernow is history and GCB is going to be brilliant. It will take time, blood sweat and tears but GCB will get there, like Kernow has. Gaining the publics trust is one of the hardest things to do for a company. This forum shows this, everyone backs Kernow as we all know them and can trust them, GCB are the new kids on the blocks down here, so we don't know what they will be like.

I don't care who pays them to operate services or if it was there decision or somebody else to run services, as long as it runs or even being attempted, has to be admired and supported. Any services that are being added not cut has to be applauded these days.

This is a forum remember, we are all allowed are views

Let's support GCB and whish them success, instead of dismissing them all the time, shall we?

 

[busKernow]

How do u delete a post heere

 

[Goldfish62]

From Ross Newman at Ensign, part of an email to another group covering Ensign's sales during Feb, obviously this could be nothing to do with Cornwall as it dosent quote the specific company.

VEHICLES OUT.

E400’s LK08FND / NVN / NVP : First Group, all converted to part open top.

Ex Metroline.

 

[busKernow]

A spare bus is near enough always brought out to a breakdown. Albeit delayed I’ve never lost mileage from breaking down

Its all starting to sound a bit silly There's been loads of lost mileage though Breakdowns with Kernow a spare bus isn't always sent out & im in Engineering , both Company's should work together to make a better bus service for Cornwall .

 

[richw]

On the subject of breakdowns an Enviro 400 broke down on the Torpoint ferry this morning!

 

[baza585]

What you have to look at is if the conflicting journies are subsidised, that means the timings must be within a certain tolerance. On the A5 the PCB service is hourly Monday to Fridays, Two Hourly Saturday and Sunday BUT Hourly to Newquay Airport- First Kernow is every 90 minutes when operational, so very little would fall within the conflicts rules. That is of course if First Kernow manage to actually maintain the service with their aged Tridents, which last year suffered from numerous Breakdowns.

On the 24 on Sundays PCB is outside the conflicts zone and runs earlier and later managing to get workers of shops into work and back from the Fowey/Par direction - something the First Kernow service has in the past and continues to not look at this aspect of travel.

There is only one way to increase bus ridership getting people out of their cars- you have to cater for the whole travel needs of your target group. National Express West Midlands do this very well as do fellow Go Ahead companies- Go North East, Brighton and Hove and Go South Coast. First as a Group are to quote the rail commentators terrible at running buses, I say they are risk averse and if you wish to run services commercially you have to take risks.

Let me mention this - when First came back into the St Austell area against Western Greyhound the 24- Fowey to St Austell was Half Hourly and worked, the 21 St Austell to Newquay was commercial. Now under 2020 vision the 21 is not commercial and the 24 is hourly despite the greater number of houses built in Newquay and Par and St Austell. So the post about the lack of vision of 2020 vision is in my view correct. I and sure that PCB with the expertise in Cornwall that personnel there have will in time ensure the services they run are as commercial as you can get whereas First Kernow have not seemingly learnt for their past and need to listen to their Cornish employees rather than those from outside the county. In essence this is the difference between a First Company and a Go Ahead Company.

Finally for the idiocy that Kernow are putting a strapline on their buses of Proper Cornish buses let me point out- First is a Scottish Group based in Aberdeen and run by people from outside Cornwall. PCB is part of an English Group based in Newcastle and run by local managers it maybe based in Plymouth nominally BUT the managers are local people living in Plymouth and Cornwall

If you think Go South Coast are a quality operation, you have clearly never used Bluestar or Damory, who are considerably worse than the equivalent FHD operations. Yes SV and more are good operators but GSC is a curate's egg, good in parts. I use Bluestar 18 every day, and despite the shiny new buses, their regulation of the service is non-existent, and the scheduling is done by someone who has never driven a bus in city traffic. Bless them the driver's do their best. Yes GSC win awards and their spin is world class but below the surface, parts of their operation are dreadful.

 

[richw]

Kernow need to get on and actually give some indication to what this vision is then, 2 months has gone by and nobody is any of the wiser.

why do they? Your assuming it’s all service work! Take a look at the number of incoming coaches on the fleet list being shared in the behind the scenes Facebook, doesn’t that say something?

 

[richw]

If you think Go South Coast are a quality operation, you have clearly never used Bluestar or Damory, who are considerably worse than the equivalent FHD operations. Yes SV and more are good operators but GSC is a curate's egg, good in parts. I use Bluestar 18 every day, and despite the shiny new buses, their regulation of the service is non-existent, and the scheduling is done by someone who has never driven a bus in city traffic. Bless them the driver's do their best. Yes GSC win awards and their spin is world class but below the surface, parts of their operation are dreadful.

A friend drives for bluestar and is regularly mentioning the awful scheduling and impossible timings.

 

[njlawley]

(deleted)

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

When did I pass it off as 'fact', that's your assumption not mine. I certainly hope you don't think I'm spreading false information or lying, I wouldn't appreciate that if you are

Kernow need to get on and actually give some indication to what this vision is then, 2 months has gone by and nobody is any of the wiser. I did say I hope there is plenty of exciting of developments to come, so I'm not trying to say I've read or seen it, that's what you just presume

What some in this forum need to do is get rid of this GCB is 'going to be rubbish' attitude, I know you want Kernow to succeed for obvious reasons, GCB is offering routes between places and at times Kernow hasn't. I'm not saying Kernow is history and GCB is going to be brilliant. It will take time, blood sweat and tears but GCB will get there, like Kernow has. Gaining the publics trust is one of the hardest things to do for a company. This forum shows this, everyone backs Kernow as we all know them and can trust them, GCB are the new kids on the blocks down here, so we don't know what they will be like.

I don't care who pays them to operate services or if it was there decision or somebody else to run services, as long as it runs or even being attempted, has to be admired and supported. Any services that are being added not cut has to be applauded these days.

This is a forum remember, we are all allowed are views

Let's support GCB and whish them success, instead of dismissing them all the time, shall we?

Aside from one person, I don’t see anyone dismissing dismissing PCB.

However, I’m struggling to understand why you think that PCB are bringing something new and innovative when, in truth, they are just operating what the council have specified. They haven’t just elected to run a bus from Launceston across to Bodmin - they’re being contracted to do so.

Also, you seem to be criticising FK for not being more bold and radical but again, your expectations are probably unreasonable. Their strategy is exactly what seasoned observers would expect.

As for the rest of 2020 vision, I’d anticipate there’s probably more in there as regards how they will develop things, upgrading fleet, new vehicles, enhancements etc

What you won’t see from anyone is lots of fantastical new routes as a commercial punt.

 

[Nickincornwall]

Aside from one person, I don’t see anyone dismissing dismissing PCB.

However, I’m struggling to understand why you think that PCB are bringing something new and innovative when, in truth, they are just operating what the council have specified. They haven’t just elected to run a bus from Launceston across to Bodmin - they’re being contracted to do so.

Also, you seem to be criticising FK for not being more bold and radical but again, your expectations are probably unreasonable. Their strategy is exactly what seasoned observers would expect.

As for the rest of 2020 vision, I’d anticipate there’s probably more in there as regards how they will develop things, upgrading fleet, new vehicles, enhancements etc

What you won’t see from anyone is lots of fantastical new routes as a commercial punt.

Look at my post regards tenders, you make assumptions which are not necessarily accurate unless you have seen the tender

 

[Goldfish62]

Look at my post regards tenders, you make assumptions which are not necessarily accurate unless you have seen the tender

Are you saying you have seen the tender docs? If so then fair enough.

 

[MB162435]

Aside from one person, I don’t see anyone dismissing dismissing PCB.

However, I’m struggling to understand why you think that PCB are bringing something new and innovative when, in truth, they are just operating what the council have specified. They haven’t just elected to run a bus from Launceston across to Bodmin - they’re being contracted to do so.

Also, you seem to be criticising FK for not being more bold and radical but again, your expectations are probably unreasonable. Their strategy is exactly what seasoned observers would expect.

As for the rest of 2020 vision, I’d anticipate there’s probably more in there as regards how they will develop things, upgrading fleet, new vehicles, enhancements etc

What you won’t see from anyone is lots of fantastical new routes as a commercial punt.

OK then, CC are trying something new and innovative. A council that is adding services and building a bigger bus network is rare these days and should be encouraged not dismissed

Let me know when Kernow or any other operator linked Redruth and Newquay or Truro and Newquay Airport, and run later services in the evenings and on Sundays on many routes. GCB is trying to deliver routes and services at times we haven't seen, and hopefully it will get even better

Yes there will be more to the 2020 vision, Marc said on Twitter registrations will come in three batches, obviously the first lot is for the tourist summer months, the next two should be the more long term, all year round ones

 

[MB162435]

why do they? Your assuming it’s all service work! Take a look at the number of incoming coaches on the fleet list being shared in the behind the scenes Facebook, doesn’t that say something?

No that's one of your assumptions again

To give people security, so they know there services will be safe long term, so they know they can get to work and keep the shifts they currently do. I often do early or late shifts, so often catch the early or late night services, so I would like to know what the future hold for them.

yes some will be coach work, but if most of the 2020 vision is coach work, what's the point of selling it to all your customers, you hardly are going to use Truronian to get to work?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

There are a few things different, route 176, the Newquay to Redruth. Add additional journies on Sunday on the 27 earlier and later Sunday journeys on the 24 need I go on.

Like first kernow I expect the commercial journeys to cone later from gcb.

I doubt if there will b e any further new vehicles for first kernow in the foreseeable future whereas we know 100 new vehicle will be delivered to gcb

Look at my post regards tenders, you make assumptions which are not necessarily accurate unless you have seen the tender

That post??

Sorry but not understanding your point.

 

[Goldfish62]

OK then, CC are trying something new and innovative. A council that is adding services and building a bigger bus network is rare these days and should be encouraged not dismissed

Let me know when Kernow or any other operator linked Redruth and Newquay or Truro and Newquay Airport, and run later services in the evenings and on Sundays on many routes. GCB is trying to deliver routes and services at times we haven't seen, and hopefully it will get even better

Yes there will be more to the 2020 vision, Marc said on Twitter registrations will come in three batches, obviously the first lot is for the tourist summer months, the next two should be the more long term, all year round ones

I certainly agree with your comments about the council. Of all the non-metropolitan local authorities in England it has to easily be one of the most positive in respect of improving public transport. Cornwall's bus network would be a shadow of its current self if CC behaved like, eg Somerset or Northamptonshire.

I haven't seen the tender so I don't know what the service specs were, but if I'm reading this right you're inferring that GCB bid with frequencies and later journeys over and above the service specs?

Talking of Newquay Airport to Truro railway station, what's happened to that? I haven't seen it registered.