TOC plans regarding advance tickets if destinations become no-go (Coronavirus)?

[westv]

I contacted LNER about the £10. They said it was because the system did an auto refund and they are refunding the £10 to me.

 

[westv]

Maybe, but people with bookings for April and May don’t need to be applying the second a company says it will give refunds.

I have April bookings but won't apply for refunds until I'm sure I won't be travelling.

 

[trainophile]

What... you mean...

Quite!

 

[trainophile]

I have April bookings but won't apply for refunds until I'm sure I won't be travelling.

I think we can write off our Morecambe trip next week . We only booked it because the Travelodge were throwing special offers around . They aren't refunding either. Oh well, just have to put it down to bad luck - we've been pretty lucky with our travel for several years.

 

[Silver Cobra]

Looks like LNER are no longer offering outright refunds for advances, instead opting to issue 'credit' to online accounts to use instead. I guess they had far too many people requesting refunds for these tickets. Makes me glad that at least one of my advance tickets was able to be refunded before this policy change came into effect. The two tickets I sent off this morning will now most likely be 'credit' instead of a proper refund.

From LNER's page on Coronavirus travel information:

Book with confidence

We want our customers to be able to book with confidence. For a temporary period during the Coronavirus outbreak, up to and including 30 April, we have made it as easy as possible for you to rearrange your travel plans after directly booking with us, including removing the standard £10 administration charge to change any booking.

Advance Tickets

Advance tickets are usually none refundable or changeable. However, up to and including 30 April, if you have an Advance ticket and want to reschedule your travel, LNER is happy to credit your online account with an e-voucher to the value of your current ticket which you can use for future travel. You can do this easily and for free by emailing our Customer Services team at [email protected] quoting COVID19 in the subject field or by calling us on 03457 225 333.

Our team are on hand to support you. Please be aware that we may not respond as quickly as usually due to current volumes.

And from Twitter:

I’m being given conflicting info. Trainline tweeted that LNER were giving Trainline customers refunds in Advance bookings so I completed the refund form and Advance Singles was one of the options on the form. Will I get a refund as stated or a credit on my Trainline account

this has changed within the last hour where we are crediting online account rather process refunds.^CL

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think we need to suspend Advance ticket sales entirely. One way to discourage unnecessary travel is for it to be expensive.

 

[yorkie]

I think we need to suspend Advance ticket sales entirely. One way to discourage unnecessary travel is for it to be expensive.

That could be damaging on routes where the vast majority of users are normally on Advances. People are not necessarily buying Advances (much) in advance these days. The name is perhaps a misnomer.

 

[xydancer]

Just a thought, but it seems likely reduced timetables will be brought in. Am I correct in thinking that if the train shown on your advance ticket is cancelled, you are able to claim a full refund with no admin charge anyway under the National Rail Terms and Conditions.

 

[westv]

Looks like LNER are no longer offering outright refunds for advances, instead opting to issue 'credit' to online accounts to use instead. I guess they had far too many people requesting refunds for these tickets. Makes me glad that at least one of my advance tickets was able to be refunded before this policy change came into effect. The two tickets I sent off this morning will now most likely be 'credit' instead of a proper refund.

From LNER's page on Coronavirus travel information:


And from Twitter:

Which is totally different to what they said yesterday. Then it was to ask for a refund via your account, select "other" in the options and put "Covid-19" in the text box. Presumably they will still be refunded.

 

[cslogg]

Just my luck.Booked Advanced Tickets from Exeter to Edinburgh for next Thursday.Never travelled First Class before so treated ourselves.I am assuming the only way we will get a refund is if the train is cancelled ?Booked on Cross Country Trains through Trainline.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Just a thought, but it seems likely reduced timetables will be brought in. Am I correct in thinking that if the train shown on your advance ticket is cancelled, you are able to claim a full refund with no admin charge anyway under the National Rail Terms and Conditions.

Correct.

 

[Haywain]

Which is totally different to what they said yesterday.

It's been changed this morning. Rather than a refund a credit voucher will be added to the customer's account.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

Northern giving full refunds and allowing changes to tickets without an admin fee. Details on this link.

https://media.northernrailway.co.uk/news/coronavirus-travel-information

 

[Haywain]

Northern giving full refunds and allowing changes to tickets without an admin fee. Details on this link.

https://media.northernrailway.co.uk/news/coronavirus-travel-information

Not entirely, no refunds on Advance tickets:

For customers who have purchased Advance Purchase tickets from a Northern ticket office, our ticket machines, website or app, changes to the date of travel will be permitted - with no admin fee charged.

 

[westv]

It's been changed this morning. Rather than a refund a credit voucher will be added to the customer's account.

I wonder when/if they will expire.

 

[Aictos]

I've brought some tickets from a Thameslink managed station, have asked social media team to verify policy on amendments or refunding advance tickets and was told business as usual eg advance tickets do not have the ease of ticket restrictions that LNER etc have in place.

Do anyone here know more on what Thameslink policy is please?

 

[hkstudent]

I am kind of surprise to see there is a inconsistency in the refund policy during this virus outbreak. Why don't DfT announce a blanket wide free-of-charge cancellation policy for all tickets including advance ticket in response to the pandemic?

 

[trainophile]

I am kind of surprise to see there is a inconsistency in the refund policy during this virus outbreak. Why don't DfT announce a blanket wide free-of-charge cancellation policy for all tickets including advance ticket in response to the pandemic?

Agree (but could be because I have a box full of future dated Advance tickets ). If they don't want us to travel they should encourage us not to.

 

[yorkie]

There was another thread where RailEurope were refusing to refund tickets. I don't know why people choose to book via these sort of third party sites ...... but each to their own.

The status now is that NO retailer is allowed to refund Advance fares.

On what grounds? As far as I was aware LNER are refunding their own advance tickets booked directly though them, The Trainline has likely come to an agreement with LNER to do the same. That doesnt mean other retailers are obligated to do the same.

At the time I wrote that, the information was apparently that LNER were allowing their own Advance fares to be refunded, however it now turns out LNER were not allowed to do what they did, and all train companies must not issue refunds for Advance fares.

Of course, the usual T&Cs apply so if the train is cancelled you can obtain a refund.

 

[trainophile]

The status now is that NO retailer is allowed to refund Advance fares.

At the time I wrote that, the information was apparently that LNER were allowing their own Advance fares to be refunded, however it now turns out LNER were not allowed to do what they did, and all train companies must not issue refunds for Advance fares.

Of course, the usual T&Cs apply so if the train is cancelled you can obtain a refund.

On whose edict? I wouldn't have thought "they"(?) could enforce such a ruling on every TOC, as some might wish to be more accommodating in the circs.

 

[yorkie]

On whose edict? I wouldn't have thought "they"(?) could enforce such a ruling on every TOC, as some might wish to be more accommodating in the circs.

When you say "TOC" do you mean TOC as in a retailer or the carrier? There is a huge difference!

 

[trainophile]

When you say "TOC" do you mean TOC as in a retailer or the carrier? There is a huge difference!

Sorry, there's not always a difference between the operator and the vendor of your ticket but I take your point. I was just wondering what authority is apparently above all of them and can make such a sweeping all-encompassing ruling that apparently leaves no discretion to either the vendor or the TOC.

 

[yorkie]

Sorry, there's not always a difference between the operator and the vendor of your ticket ...

Indeed, and some TOCs like it that way... but that's a whole new topic.

but I take your point. I was just wondering what authority is apparently above all of them and can make such a sweeping all-encompassing ruling that apparently leaves no discretion to either the vendor or the TOC.

All TOCs together form ATOC (trading as Rail Delivery Group). So when one or two TOCs do decide to do something differently to all the others, RDG can intervene. Ultimately the DfT can intervene, though the DfT aren't going to act in a way that makes TOCs go bust sooner.

I don't know whether the decision for consistency came from RDG or DfT (or even both).

Either way, the nonsensical nature of it, and the manner in which LNER did not distinguish between itself as a TOC and a retailer, was highlighted on Twitter and this forum. And once something is posted here, it's going to be read by relevant people at the very top.

Let's be honest, it makes no sense for there to be an inconsistent approach, especially not when there is confusion over whether LNER means an operator or retailer, and the suggestion that LNER could waive admin fees only when the ticket is issued to a customer in both senses is a clear case of an abuse of a dominant position, which is very clearly unlawful.

 

[trainophile]

Thanks for explaining. Pity they can't for once act in the best interests of the travelling public, who pay their wages the rest of the year.

 

[yorkie]

Thanks for explaining. Pity they can't for once act in the best interests of the travelling public, who pay their wages the rest of the year.

they can't afford to.

 

[dvboy]

Can't believe Avanti West Coast still aren't offering full refunds on all tickets over 24 hours since government advice to only make essential journeys.
Even a credit voucher would be fine. No-one knows when they are going to be able to travel for leisure again so this position is ridiculous.

 

[sheff1]

they can't afford to.

That is really an issue for the government, rather than the passenger.
The government are advising people not to make "non essential" journeys, yet not being able to refund tickets bought in good faith before the crisis emerged will likely result in some people making such journeys. Many of those who do follow the advice, and lose money as a result, may well decide to drive in future.

 

[yorkie]

Can't believe Avanti West Coast still aren't offering full refunds on all tickets over 24 hours since government advice to only make essential journeys.
Even a credit voucher would be fine. No-one knows when they are going to be able to travel for leisure again so this position is ridiculous.

They aren't allowed to, just as LNER weren't allowed to (except LNER did anyway and had to backtrack)

As for vouchers, it's interesting you should say that... Does anyone know if the LNER website is refunding Advances booked for travel with any operator? From what I've read, it sounds like they are. And, if you do obtain a refund, the voucher can be used on any train company? So someone could cancel an Avanti Advance, obtain an LNER voucher, then book with LNER?

If so, are other retailers allowed to do that?

 

[Skymonster]

This is an area where the national media could have a big impact if they picked up the story and crafted it well... “Evil train companies refuse to refund tickets despite government recommending only essential travel”. Find a subtext of a family refused a refund despite having an elderly relative living with them, get a quote saying from a parent saying something like ‘all we want is our money back because our kids don’t want to make granny die’ and it would make a great RDG-shaming story.

 

[Kite159]

This is an area where the national media could have a big impact if they picked up the story and crafted it well... “Evil train companies refuse to refund tickets despite government recommending only essential travel”. Find a subtext of a family refused a refund despite having an elderly relative living with them, get a quote saying from a parent saying something like ‘all we want is our money back because our kids don’t want to make granny die’ and it would make a great RDG-shaming story.

Agreed, we all know some media outlets love a chance to make the railways look inflexible and evil.

Although it isn't just the railways making things hard if you want to cancel due to following the advice to limit travel, try getting money back from hotel rooms, some are allowing transfers to alternative dates but who knows when it will be safe to resume leisure travel