Go Cornwall Bus

[TheGrandWazoo]

The timetables on Traveline showed them going to the harbour. However, clearly GCB had no suitable buses in mind as they'd be using them for the couple of trips they're left with.

I don't there's anything "clear" about it.

PCB aren't some two bit outfit - we'll leave that to Cornwall Busways . The original tender came out and obviously required a small vehicle to serve Mousehole Harbour. Are you really suggesting that they wouldn't have had a small vehicle? That from the get go, they would be in breach of their contract, and in breach of the registrations submitted to the TC? You really think that was the case?

That the tender has now changed for the M6 - that is clear. They are no longer will be running to the harbour on two journeys on Saturday mornings which won't impact too many people given how they dovetail with FK's commercial offering. I don't see how the new tender for two journeys a week means that they couldn't get a smaller vehicle for the original tender.

This is especially so given that they have small vehicles with existing partners (like OTS and Summercourt) and are busy drafting in fleet from across the Go Ahead empire. I don't doubt that they'll have challenges like getting sufficient drivers but they'll have sufficient vehicles even if not each and every one is Euro V from day one.

 

[richw]

GCB have acquired a transit minibus unsure what for yet

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Cornwall Council live in the same rarified world as the International Olympic Committee i.e. up their own back alleyways, so something so obvious and compelling won't happen. They'd no doubt cite possible breach of contract, I'd cite pig-headedness and a lack of intelligence, emotional or other. Today's weekly edition of the Packet free paper, which is mostly Falmouth/Helston based but now ventures into Redruth/Camborne. Truro and Penzance to a degree, is full of woes related to coronavirus, with jobs temporarily or permanently axed, entertainment and hospitality venues closing, even hospital visiting hours at Treliske cut. But with consummate bad timing, there's a piece about the Park and Ride at Truro being extended three hours into late evening from 30th March, just when any demand has ceased to exist. What message does that send out? If the press release had appeared a week earlier, it might just about have been understandable, but there's no excuse now.

Ready to do that late evening shopping.....

In the circumstances, it would make more sense for CC to defer these changes but then again, PCB will have lots of new e200s and e400s incurring depreciation so they will need to be recompensed.

 

[richw]

Ready to do that late evening shopping.....

In the circumstances, it would make more sense for CC to defer these changes but then again, PCB will have lots of new e200s and e400s incurring depreciation so they will need to be recompensed.

it’s too late for deferring the changes.


The late P&R is a lot aimed for hospital workers who assumingly are still working

 

[Goldfish62]

GCB have acquired a transit minibus unsure what for yet

Staff shuttle?

 

[Goldfish62]

I don't there's anything "clear" about it.

PCB aren't some two bit outfit - we'll leave that to Cornwall Busways . The original tender came out and obviously required a small vehicle to serve Mousehole Harbour. Are you really suggesting that they wouldn't have had a small vehicle? That from the get go, they would be in breach of their contract, and in breach of the registrations submitted to the TC? You really think that was the case?

That the tender has now changed for the M6 - that is clear. They are no longer will be running to the harbour on two journeys on Saturday mornings which won't impact too many people given how they dovetail with FK's commercial offering. I don't see how the new tender for two journeys a week means that they couldn't get a smaller vehicle for the original tender.

This is especially so given that they have small vehicles with existing partners (like OTS and Summercourt) and are busy drafting in fleet from across the Go Ahead empire. I don't doubt that they'll have challenges like getting sufficient drivers but they'll have sufficient vehicles even if not each and every one is Euro V from day one.

There really is no point in continuing this debate. We are clearly never going to agree on this issue so let's just leave it there.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

There really is no point in continuing this debate. We are clearly never going to agree on this issue so let's just leave it there.

Fair enough - we will see in a few weeks time what the reality of the situation looks like. Think most of the issues will be at CC's door rather than either of the two operators.

 

[Goldfish62]

Fair enough - we will see in a few weeks time what the reality of the situation looks like. Think most of the issues will be at CC's door rather than either of the two operators.

Absolutely. Quite agree.

 

[MB162435]

Printed TfC timetables should be available next week announced on Twitter that they are being printed now

Although Kernow have pre-warned about potential timetable changes if things get worse, likely TfC will follow suit if things deteriorate

 

[richw]

Printed TfC timetables should be available next week announced on Twitter that they are being printed now

Although Kernow have pre-warned about potential timetable changes if things get worse, likely TfC will follow suit if things deteriorate

TfC have deferred driver start dates I’ve seen on Facebook. Plymouth citybus have announced from 30th March they are going to a Sunday plus timetable, Sunday times with earlier starts and later finishes

 

[MB162435]

TfC have deferred driver start dates I’ve seen on Facebook. Plymouth citybus have announced from 30th March they are going to a Sunday plus timetable, Sunday times with earlier starts and later finishes

The level of service for all operators both rail and bus isn't sustainable in the long run with the current amount of passengers, so changes are inevitable

I've got down to 1 shift a week myself now, so I will only need the bus for one day next week, expect many people will hardly need them either

Most buses only have a handful of people on them these days, Kernow could get away with single deckers even on most of the core routes and TfC with a Smart Car!

 

[Goldfish62]

The level of service for all operators both rail and bus isn't sustainable in the long run with the current amount of passengers, so changes are inevitable

I've got down to 1 shift a week myself now, so I will only need the bus for one day next week, expect many people will hardly need them either

Most buses only have a handful of people on them these days, Kernow could get away with single deckers even on most of the core routes and TfC with a Smart Car!

To hazard a guess I'd say from 29 March on the route

The level of service for all operators both rail and bus isn't sustainable in the long run with the current amount of passengers, so changes are inevitable

I've got down to 1 shift a week myself now, so I will only need the bus for one day next week, expect many people will hardly need them either

Most buses only have a handful of people on them these days, Kernow could get away with single deckers even on most of the core routes and TfC with a Smart Car!

Winter Sunday service with earlier start/later finish would seem to be the way to go, perhaps with a reduced Saturday service on those routes which have no Sunday service.

 

[MB162435]

To hazard a guess I'd say from 29 March on the route

Winter Sunday service with earlier start/later finish would seem to be the way to go, perhaps with a reduced Saturday service on those routes which have no Sunday service.

Yeah certainly an option, only the PR1 seems to be the only service that is needed to serve the hospital, although many seemed empty on the Tregurra end

With schools and colleges finishing tomorrow, with face to face Uni lectures already suspended, you won't even have students on the buses, further reducing demand

All operators are likely to taking it day by day like all of us and listing closely to Boris, expect they will come up with different level of service provision immediately, with things set to stay unpredictable for a good while yet

 

[Goldfish62]

Yeah certainly an option, only the PR1 seems to be the only service that is needed to serve the hospital, although many seemed empty on the Tregurra end

With schools and colleges finishing tomorrow, with face to face Uni lectures already suspended, you won't even have students on the buses, further reducing demand

All operators are likely to taking it day by day like all of us and listing closely to Boris, expect they will come up with different level of service provision immediately, with things set to stay unpredictable for a good while yet

Ali of course subject to Traffic Commissioner "approval", who, true to form, aren't being as flexible as they should be in this unprecedented situation.

 

[didbygraham]

it’s too late for deferring the changes.


The late P&R is a lot aimed for hospital workers who assumingly are still working

Cant see that its too late to defer the changes. Things are changing on a daily basis at the moment and normal rules no longer apply. I personally suspect we will have some kind of emergency timetables in place for a few key routes in Cornwall - and probably most places in the UK over the coming weeks. Unless govt funding is made available to operators to keep some services going I cant see that many being sustainable for much longer

 

[Busaholic]

There really is no point in continuing this debate. We are clearly never going to agree on this issue so let's just leave it there.

Hear! Hear! No knockout, level on points, my (hopefully) unbiased opinion. At the end of the day, in the old cliche, with everything else going on, it matters hardly a jot.

it’s too late for deferring the changes.


The late P&R is a lot aimed for hospital workers who assumingly are still working

Okay - introduce a half hourly service PR2, stopping only at Treliske. routed to avoid the city centre, and operating on a Sunday as well. In fact, continue it beyond 22.30. That would be a good use of council (i.e. our) money (personally, I'd abolish fares or checking on it as well during the current emergency). Maybe an overlaid Langarth Park to Treliske half hour service as well.

It's NEVER too late to defer changes until the appointed hour. I'd let the managements of FK and GCB, none of whom are fools, sort out some of this between themselves until normality returns (if it ever does) and just inform CC what they are doing to satisfy the beancounters. I still think, other than new or altered routes, CURRENT timetables should pertain, even if specific journeys were run by a different operator. Let's face it, some of these evening journeys at least may not last much longer: I suspect most of the new routes too, if they're carrying nobody, and the Lizard in particular is going to be considerably overbussed.

 

[Busaholic]

Ali of course subject to Traffic Commissioner "approval", who, true to form, aren't being as flexible as they should be in this unprecedented situation.

They need a rocket up the backside from Grant Shapps, and told their whole modus operandi will be up for discussion once the emergency ends, not before time imo.

 

[Goldfish62]

Hear! Hear! No knockout, level on points, my (hopefully) unbiased opinion. At the end of the day, in the old cliche, with everything else going on, it matters hardly a jot.
Okay - introduce a half hourly service PR2, stopping only at Treliske. routed to avoid the city centre, and operating on a Sunday as well. In fact, continue it beyond 22.30. That would be a good use of council (i.e. our) money (personally, I'd abolish fares or checking on it as well during the current emergency). Maybe an overlaid Tregurra to Treliske half hour service as well.

It's NEVER too late to defer changes until the appointed hour. I'd let the managements of FK and GCB, none of whom are fools, sort out some of this between themselves until normality returns (if it ever does) and just inform CC what they are doing to satisfy the beancounters. I still think, other than new or altered routes, CURRENT timetables should pertain, even if specific journeys were run by a different operator. Let's face it, some of these evening journeys at least may not last much longer: I suspect most of the new routes too, if they're carrying nobody, and the Lizard in particular is going to be considerably overbussed.

Unbelievably the only concession the traffic commissioners are making is allowing operators to use driver shortages/downturn in passenger numbers as allowable reasons to seek approval for short notice changes. Each registration change is still subject to approval, still subject to the £60 fee and still requires pre notification to the local authority.

I wouldn't be surprised if operators are largely ignoring this. The TCs can't take all of them to public enquiries and imagine how it would look if they did.

 

[Busaholic]

Unbelievably the only concession the traffic commissioners are making is allowing operators to use driver shortages/downturn in passenger numbers as allowable reasons to seek approval for short notice changes. Each registration change is still subject to approval, still subject to the £60 fee and still requires pre notification to the local authority.

I wouldn't be surprised if operators are largely ignoring this. The TCs can't take all of them to public enquiries and imagine how it would look if they did.

I know Dr John Reid is now seen as a largely discredited Labour politician but his old description of the Home Office as ''not fit for purpose'' should apply to these people too.

 

[Man of Kent]

They need a rocket up the backside from Grant Shapps, and told their whole modus operandi will be up for discussion once the emergency ends, not before time imo

The general gist of the Traffic Commissioners' Annual Reports is that they don't have enough staff (supplied by the DVSA) to carry out all their duties. The centralisation of registrations in Leeds is one aspect of this. Contrast this to the Office of Rail and Road, effectively another agency of the DfT, which has over 300 staff.

I believe the Statutory Guidance issued yesterday goes as far as the TC's authority allows - further changes require the appropriate legislation to be amended, very much not in their control.

 

[Goldfish62]

I believe the Statutory Guidance issued yesterday goes as far as the TC's authority allows - further changes require the appropriate legislation to be amended, very much not in their control.

You might be right, but it would have been helpful if the STC had pointed this out, as well as put what is a generally unreadable document (unless you're a lawyer) in plain and simple language.

What is certainly in the TCs' gift is whether to pursue sanctions against operators for not operating services as registered and I very much hope they'll turn a blind eye to this in these circumstances which are an existential threat to so many operators.

 

[carlberry]

You might be right, but it would have been helpful if the STC had pointed this out, as well as put what is a generally unreadable document (unless you're a lawyer) in plain and simple language.

What is certainly in the TCs' gift is whether to pursue sanctions against operators for not operating services as registered and I very much hope they'll turn a blind eye to this in these circumstances which are an existential threat to so many operators.

Their role is to uphold the law, they cant decide to suddenly ignore the law any more than the police can decide to change the law. The change has to come from the government, despite their tendency to avoid responsibility and sit back whilst the people at the sharp end take the flack.

 

[Goldfish62]

Their role is to uphold the law, they cant decide to suddenly ignore the law any more than the police can decide to change the law. The change has to come from the government, despite their tendency to avoid responsibility and sit back whilst the people at the sharp end take the flack.

Your interpretation of the limitation of their powers is incorrect and you're taking a more generous view of them than most local authorities and operators do. Even Roger French was critical of their current non action in his latest blog.

And for your information they do have considerable scope to make exceptions if they want. They do not operate in the same way as the police (who, nevertheless, have already stated they may be turning a blind eye to some low level offences in the current situation). Unlike the police they also act as CPS, judge and jury.

 

[swifty]

I passed a couple of 54 plate Morebus Volvo B7/Eclipse heading south bound on the M5 at Gordano this afternoon. Presumably heading to Plymouth for Cornwall?

 

[Busaholic]

Their role is to uphold the law, they cant decide to suddenly ignore the law any more than the police can decide to change the law. The change has to come from the government, despite their tendency to avoid responsibility and sit back whilst the people at the sharp end take the flack.

The police's role is to uphold the law, yet many forces openly state they will not investigate or follow up certain categories e.g. shoplifting below a certain level or, in the case of Devon and Cornwall police, drivers leaving garages without paying. D&C police consider this to be a 'civil matter' so RESULT, no need to investigate and no need to record it as a crime! The T.C.s can decide to prioritise within their limited resources, and much easier to go after Joe Bloggs for operating a defective vehicle and 'not having sufficient provable funds' to continue rather than the time-consuming business of truly investigating a shoddily-run subsidiary of one of the big boys.

 

[Stan Drews]

Unbelievably the only concession the traffic commissioners are making is allowing operators to use driver shortages/downturn in passenger numbers as allowable reasons to seek approval for short notice changes. Each registration change is still subject to approval, still subject to the £60 fee and still requires pre notification to the local authority.

I wouldn't be surprised if operators are largely ignoring this. The TCs can't take all of them to public enquiries and imagine how it would look if they did.

That is quite simply untrue.
I have personally seen the letter from the Senior Traffic Commissioner and the significant concessions they have made to allow short notice changes to be made as a result of the current Coronavirus. Indeed we submitted over 40 of them yesterday evening, without any fees being necessary.

 

[Goldfish62]

That is quite simply untrue.
I have personally seen the letter from the Senior Traffic Commissioner and the significant concessions they have made to allow short notice changes to be made as a result of the current Coronavirus. Indeed we submitted over 40 of them yesterday evening, without any fees being necessary.

Thanks for the clarification, which is good news. Obviously moved on from a few days ago when an operator was ranting to me about it.

 

[plebb11]

The www.gocornwallbus.co.uk website has gone down

 

[DaveHarries]

The www.gocornwallbus.co.uk website has gone down

Indeed. The partnership between OTS, PCB and Summercourt Travel will be under the Transport for Cornwall brand.
https://www.transportforcornwall.co.uk/

Dave

 

[Lizard1324]

Anyone got a list of all the vehicles they will be using for Cornwall