Go Cornwall Bus

[fchd]

Plymouth Citybus liveried WJ65HMC on Route 93 this afternoon on the first day of service

 

[Lizard1324]

 

[Lizard1324]

One of the new TFC ADL Enviro 200mmc seen on route 34 in the lizard village
Reg: WA20DVG
https://www.flickr.com/photos/148020805@N03/49712197233/in/photolist-2iJWJhX-2iJU1hR-2iJTUEJ/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/148020805@N03/49712178318/in/photolist-2iJWJhX-2iJU1hR-2iJTUEJ/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/148020805@N03/49712728751/in/photolist-2iJWJhX-2iJU1hR-2iJTUEJ/

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Bog standard stock builds. I'm still waiting to find out what this "quality" aspect of the new network is.

Given current circumstances I think we may have quite a wait.

Depends what you mean by quality. Are you referring to the quality score of the tender, or just a more general sense?

 

[MB162435]

Depends what you mean by quality. Are you referring to the quality score of the tender, or just a more general sense?

Apparently the lockdown could last until June, so doesn't look like we need to worry about how brilliant or terrible the buses are for a good while yet

As long as all operators get the essential workers to where they need to be, operators can't do much more until life gets back to normal

 

[busdave]

Surprised to see in St Just earlier the 17.23 A17 still operated by FK.
Not one passenger.

 

[Goldfish62]

Depends what you mean by quality. Are you referring to the quality score of the tender, or just a more general sense?

I would hope the quality score in the evaluation would equate to quality for the user. There's something very wrong if not!

 

[richw]

Surprised to see in St Just earlier the 17.23 A17 still operated by FK.
Not one passenger.

from TfC:

Covid-19 Transport for Cornwall emergency timetables
Please find attached below two downloadable files which contain the timetables that will be in operation from this coming Sunday. The Sunday file will operate only on Sundays and will begin this Sunday 29th March, The other file is for Monday to Saturdays and will begin on Monday 30th March until further notice.

Unfortunately we will not be running the A17, 90 & T1,T2 as previously advertised.

I would like to personally thank all our new passengers for your patience whilst we have been working hard to get these timetables to you.

Obviously the current set of circumstances were not what we originally had planned for this coming week and we look forward to getting out into the local communities with the standard timetable when the current situation has passed.

If you need any further informtion on this set of timetables please contact our Customer Experience Team on 0808 196 2632 or email [email protected]

Thank you and stay safe.

 

[richw]

I would hope the quality score in the evaluation would equate to quality for the user. There's something very wrong if not!

nope the quality score was meeting onerous and irrelevant requirements the council wanted such as losing your own brand and livery.

 

[Goldfish62]

Apparently the lockdown could last until June, so doesn't look like we need to worry about how brilliant or terrible the buses are for a good while yet

As long as all operators get the essential workers to where they need to be, operators can't do much more until life gets back to normal

I don't think anyone is suggesting that operators should be doing anything else at this stage!

 

[Goldfish62]

Surprised to see in St Just earlier the 17.23 A17 still operated by FK.
Not one passenger.

It's an interesting anomaly that FK are retaining the Sunday Pendeen leg during the emergency period.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I would hope the quality score in the evaluation would equate to quality for the user. There's something very wrong if not!

nope the quality score was meeting onerous and irrelevant requirements the council wanted such as losing your own brand and livery.

I've done quite a few public sector (MEAT) tenders. I can't speak for this CC tender but they are usually scored in two ways.

There's a commercial score (usually worth 60-70% of total marks). However, it's not usually a straight comparison but scored on a % variance between your bid and the best bid.

However, quality is something different. It doesn't relate to the quality of the service per se.... that's a given as you're signing up to specific conditions and KPIs. The quality relates to how well you answer the questions in the tender. So you might be asked:

• "The tenderer must demonstrate how they operate within a quality framework"
  • "They must demonstrate how they work with other operators to deliver consistent service"
  • "They must demonstrate how they measure and manage service delivery"
  • "They must demonstrate how they implement measures to identify below standard performance and initiate remedial actions"

They'll be a raft of seemingly pointless, box ticking questions to answer. Public sector MEAT tenders are painful to do.

Quality as we would expect is normally wrapped up in a raft of KPIs, service and quality standards etc.

 

[Goldfish62]

I've done quite a few public sector (MEAT) tenders. I can't speak for this CC tender but they are usually scored in two ways.

There's a commercial score (usually worth 60-70% of total marks). However, it's not usually a straight comparison but scored on a % variance between your bid and the best bid.

However, quality is something different. It doesn't relate to the quality of the service per se.... that's a given as you're signing up to specific conditions and KPIs. The quality relates to how well you answer the questions in the tender. So you might be asked:

• "The tenderer must demonstrate how they operate within a quality framework"
  • "They must demonstrate how they work with other operators to deliver consistent service"
  • "They must demonstrate how they measure and manage service delivery"
  • "They must demonstrate how they implement measures to identify below standard performance and initiate remedial actions"

They'll be a raft of seemingly pointless, box ticking questions to answer. Public sector MEAT tenders are painful to do.

Quality as we would expect is normally wrapped up in a raft of KPIs, service and quality standards etc.

One of my last jobs was evaluating public sector tenders so I do understand it.

In this case the council stated that PCB won because of their quality score. I don't think anyone would seriously expect that First wouldn't at least have been on a par with GCB in meeting the criteria you have listed above, which is all pretty basic stuff for a competent operator.

The clear inference from the council is that passengers can expect something better than they've had in the past.

And for the benefit of doubt so as to avoid any pedantry I obviously don't mean right now in the midst of our emergency.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

One of my last jobs was evaluating public sector tenders so I do understand it.

In this case the council stated that PCB won because of their quality score. I don't think anyone would seriously expect that First wouldn't at least have been on a par with GCB in meeting the criteria you have listed above, which is all pretty basic stuff for a competent operator.

The clear inference from the council is that passengers can expect something better than they've had in the past.

And for the benefit of doubt so as to avoid any pedantry I obviously don't mean right now in the midst of our emergency.

No worries - I wasn't looking to teach anyone to suck eggs!!

They managed to accrue a better quality or technical score (and were allegedly more expensive) so must have submitted a very good technical bid.

Now, the council can rightly say that passengers ARE getting something better than in the past. Take the 16 - instead of a knackered Solo, you get an hourly e200. Hourly runs to St Mawes, or early morning Falmouth locals, or the Bodmin Moor mystery tour!

I suspect that we probably share the view as to how beneficial all of these enhancements are.

 

[richw]

No worries - I wasn't looking to teach anyone to suck eggs!!

They managed to accrue a better quality or technical score (and were allegedly more expensive) so must have submitted a very good technical bid.

Now, the council can rightly say that passengers ARE getting something better than in the past. Take the 16 - instead of a knackered Solo, you get an hourly e200. Hourly runs to St Mawes, or early morning Falmouth locals, or the Bodmin Moor mystery tour!

I suspect that we probably share the view as to how beneficial all of these enhancements are.

£24m over 8 years more expensive and over budget.

 

[Busaholic]

Interesting questions being asked at a Cornwall Council meeting

One of my last jobs was evaluating public sector tenders so I do understand it.

In this case the council stated that PCB won because of their quality score. I don't think anyone would seriously expect that First wouldn't at least have been on a par with GCB in meeting the criteria you have listed above, which is all pretty basic stuff for a competent operator.

The clear inference from the council is that passengers can expect something better than they've had in the past.

And for the benefit of doubt so as to avoid any pedantry I obviously don't mean right now in the midst of our emergency.

You'll probably understand that I can't now devote too much of my time or, more importantly, energies either physical or mental to all this, much as I'd love to, but I found very interesting that a recent meeting of Cornwall Council's customer and support services overview and scrutiny committee asked certain questions of Corserv's managing director and finance officer. This was the meeting that revealed Corserv hadn't bought into the council's new Oracle Cloud IT system, and then it came out that Corserv, 100% owned by Cornwall Council, were allowed to use CC-owned buildings allocated to them not only without paying rent but also no business rates ''at the moment''.

So, presumably, PCB's bid was made after they had agreed terms with Corserv as to what the latter would charge for the servicing/cleaning/garaging of a known number of vehicles should the bid be successful, and Corserv's charges would, also presumably, have been able to reflect their ability to undercut possible competitors with their financial advantages. Now, if even with this consideration PCB's tender bid was significantly higher than First's, you might ask why that was, let alone why it was accepted. I would think FK and their bosses might be very interested in this revelation, and ask about level playing fields, should things get messy. Now, though, would not be a politic time to bring it up.

 

[83G/84D]

E200MMC's 2402 (WA20 DVX), 2412 (WA20 DWL) & 2421 (WA20 DWY) seen around Camborne during my permitted walk / trip to Post Office. OTS had a white Mercedes Benz BU55 EVM on service 42.

 

[richw]

Oops. TfC E200mmc crashed into another at Newquay today both having smashed windows.
A dart was smashed up last week on route training hitting a wall

 

[Busaholic]

Oops. TfC E200mmc crashed into another at Newquay today both having smashed windows.
A dart was smashed up last week on route training hitting a wall

Presume there weren't any passengers to worry about?!

 

[MB162435]

Oops. TfC E200mmc crashed into another at Newquay today both having smashed windows.
A dart was smashed up last week on route training hitting a wall

They just tweeted that the 17:10 85 service from Truro to Newquay won't be operating due to a road traffic collision, presumably one of those buses were meant to work that service or another RTC somewhere?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Interesting questions being asked at a Cornwall Council meeting
You'll probably understand that I can't now devote too much of my time or, more importantly, energies either physical or mental to all this, much as I'd love to, but I found very interesting that a recent meeting of Cornwall Council's customer and support services overview and scrutiny committee asked certain questions of Corserv's managing director and finance officer. This was the meeting that revealed Corserv hadn't bought into the council's new Oracle Cloud IT system, and then it came out that Corserv, 100% owned by Cornwall Council, were allowed to use CC-owned buildings allocated to them not only without paying rent but also no business rates ''at the moment''.

So, presumably, PCB's bid was made after they had agreed terms with Corserv as to what the latter would charge for the servicing/cleaning/garaging of a known number of vehicles should the bid be successful, and Corserv's charges would, also presumably, have been able to reflect their ability to undercut possible competitors with their financial advantages. Now, if even with this consideration PCB's tender bid was significantly higher than First's, you might ask why that was, let alone why it was accepted. I would think FK and their bosses might be very interested in this revelation, and ask about level playing fields, should things get messy. Now, though, would not be a politic time to bring it up.

First of all, hope you and your good lady are keeping yourself safe, even more so in these dark days. Hopefully, we will all come out of this in a few months' time and reflect on something quite pivotal in our lives. Until then, take care of yourselves!

It does seem odd that Corserv should get that sort of assistance in tendering for ANY business vs other commercial organisations. It doesn't so much affect this bid but it does provide them with a competitive advantage over commercial organisations.

In terms of this bid, the fact that the Go Ahead bid was higher than First's isn't an issue per se. Big caveat here: We don't know what the scoring system was for this tender but from experience, the commercial score is NOT a straight comparison of pounds and pence. Also, how the quality aspect was scored is not known by anyone here AFAIK? So the next couple of paragraphs are supposition as to what could have happened.

Let's say the commercial score is worth 50% of the total marks. Not knowing what the costs are but let's say the it was £15m p.a. against FK's bid of £12m. So 50 x (lowest compliant bid price divided by the tenderer's bid price) = so Go Ahead score 40 points and FK would have scored 50.

Then you have the technical or quality score also being 50% of the total marks. They'd be a raft of anodyne questions with various criteria that you have to hit. These will be marked (as @Goldfish62 used to do) by 3 or more assessors to get a representative score for each question. If Go Ahead did some sort of exceptional job and FK didn't, they might have scored 48 and FK scored 37 so Go Ahead would get the gig despite being more expensive because the quality of their bid response was better.

That make sense?

 

[richw]

@TheGrandWazoo it was 60 quality 40 price

 

[Lizard1324]

Oops. TfC E200mmc crashed into another at Newquay today both having smashed windows.
A dart was smashed up last week on route training hitting a wall

That's really not good no the second day of work, presume they rushed training if drivers (might not of)

 

[richw]

They just tweeted that the 17:10 85 service from Truro to Newquay won't be operating due to a road traffic collision, presumably one of those buses were meant to work that service or another RTC somewhere?

that is the last service of the day potentially stranding passengers! Surely a priority service for sending a spare bus out for?

 

[richw]

Seen this on Facebook! Imagine the chaos if they’d launched on a busy Monday!

 

[MB162435]

that is the last service of the day potentially stranding passengers! Surely a priority service for sending a spare bus out for?

Especially when you're running only half the amount of services, so aren't really stretched in terms of fleet availability

 

[Lizard1324]

Especially when you're running only half the amount of services, so aren't really stretched in terms of fleet availability

Totally agree, think everything was very rushed and considering they only have half the route as previously advertised and 3 buses down seems like a bit of **** show, hopefully they will find there feet.
I think it's a bit ridicules how rather drivers have to get to summer court to the drive all the way to the route start location e.g. the lizard imagine the extra mile and fuel that will be used over time

 

[richw]

Totally agree, think everything was very rushed and considering they only have half the route as previously advertised and 3 buses down seems like a bit of **** show, hopefully they will find there feet.
I think it's a bit ridicules how rather drivers have to get to summer court to the drive all the way to the route start location e.g. the lizard imagine the extra mile and fuel that will be used over time

they aren’t running from summercourt. They’re running from st Austell Helston Newquay and Scorrier

 

[Lizard1324]

they aren’t running from summercourt. They’re running from st Austell Helston Newquay and Scorrier

Someone said before there was only the summer court one, where is the helston depot located

 

[MB162435]

Someone said before there was only the summer court one, where is the helston depot located

By Flambards, think they're sharing with Kernow