Are your buses good value?

[Geordie driver]

Pre all the virus hoo ha, do you consider your local buses to offer good value?
The last few months of my working life I used the bus, This was Blyth in Northumberland to Newcastle. £5.90 day ticket, I found this a bit steep but then I'd had decades of free travel when I worked for the bus company.

I could, in theory, travel all day but in reality it was just a return ticket for me. The killer was when I met someone at work who would offer me a lift home, making my ticket no further use!

There does appear to be a big difference around the country depending where you are, obviously London is a very different matter.

 

[Enthusiast]

obviously London is a very different matter.

London is indeed a very different matter. £1.50 buys you unlimited travel for an hour (which, of course, can sometimes be as little as the length of Oxford Street on bad day!). That travel can include the tram system. The same fare covers you for one bus if the journey takes more than an hour and a daily cap of £4.50 applies. It is extremely good value, especially in outer London where you can cover quite a distance at those rates.

By contrast, the last time I paid a bus fare was just over a year ago. I travelled to the centre of Oxford from about seven miles outside the city. The journey took about 30 minutes and cost me £5.80.

 

[bussnapperwm]

£3.30 all operator ticket for Mine and the neighbouring borough. Not bad value.

Alternatively £4 and one can travel from Leamington Spa all the way to Cannock on the national Express west Midlands network. Hell yeah!

 

[yorksrob]

West Yorkshire seemed good value. But that was probably because of my annual metrocard.

 

[cactustwirly]

£3.30 all operator ticket for Mine and the neighbouring borough. Not bad value.

Alternatively £4 and one can travel from Leamington Spa all the way to Cannock on the national Express west Midlands network. Hell yeah!

But when the train is £10, that saves you a lot of time and effort, plus the train isn't as torturous as a bus, especially a crappy rattly one that stops at every lamp post!

 

[bussnapperwm]

But when the train is £10, that saves you a lot of time and effort, plus the train isn't as torturous as a bus, especially a crappy rattly one that stops at every lamp post!

Train saving a load of time/effort? Erm...New Street!

Plus I'd rather have a Dennis Trident than a Voyager

 

[Ianno87]

£15 a week here in Cambridge (for a Stagecoach Megarider). I think reasonable value.

Although £2.80 single to the city centre (about 2 miles) plus £4.50 Dayrider is a bit on the pricier side.

All prices for the city Megarider zoner - more if you venture outside into Cambridgshire 'proper'

Train saving a load of time/effort? Erm...New Street!

Plus I'd rather have a Dennis Trident than a Voyager

Erm.. aren't bus routes into the City Centre all split across different areas, needing a walk between stops in lots of cases? New Street is a relative doddle.

Plus at no point do you *have* to use a Voyager - you can do Leamington-Coventry-New street easily without using one.

 

[bussnapperwm]

Erm.. aren't bus routes into the City Centre all split across different areas, needing a walk between stops in lots of cases? New Street is a relative doddle.

Plus at no point do you *have* to use a Voyager - you can do Leamington-Coventry-New street easily without using one.

If you time it right, you can get off the X1, short stroll down Moor Street (crossing over) and be able to jump on a X51/997/935. No waiting at Proof House or relying on a late running LNR required

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

But when the train is £10, that saves you a lot of time and effort, plus the train isn't as torturous as a bus, especially a crappy rattly one that stops at every lamp post!

It all depends how you quantify value? Is it the time that’s the imperative or cost?

When measuring train vs bus, it’s pertinent whether your start and finish points are close to a station and the actual journey times.

 

[JetBlast]

A number of years ago in Greater Manchester it was slightly cheaper to buy a car, insurance, tax, MOT and fuel than it was to buy bus tickets.

 

[scotrail158713]

I’m just outside Edinburgh and have to say generally the buses are good value. Some of the prices for singles are a bit steep, but it’s based on a zonal system where there are also some generally reasonable prices for journeys as well.

 

[cnjb8]

In Nottingham, I find CT4N prices a bit steep but you get an electric bus.
Trent Barton prices are quite steep and continue to rise but they are good in terms of comfort etc

 

[Geordie driver]

I will say, for once something positive about the industry, the quality of the fleet is vastly improved since the days I worked there.

The joke amongst the drivers was NMS ( Northumbria Motor Services) stood for No Money Spent.

Not keen on those electric buses that switch off at every stop then pull away on battery power only for the diesel engine to lurch back in at ten mph.

 

[ATW Alex 101]

In Ellesmere Port, the local bus from near my house to the town centre used to cost about £3.60!

At the time that was extortionate, as it wasn’t really that long a journey, about 10 minutes. I must have been the only cash-paying customer though, most of the patrons were pensioners using their bus pass. All three of them that were usually on when I caught that bus. Me plus those three and the driver must have had a combined age of about 1900! (Give or take 3-4 years).

 

[EnviroExplorer]

Train saving a load of time/effort? Erm...New Street!

Plus I'd rather have a Dennis Trident than a Voyager

You’re not getting a Trident from Leamington to Cannock, none of that direct journey is likely to be one really. That aside, the NXWM day ticket is very good value!

 

[bussnapperwm]

You’re not getting a Trident from Leamington to Cannock, none of that direct journey is likely to be one really. That aside, the NXWM day ticket is very good value!

There does still (pre Coronavirus) have the odd Trident drop on the 11 (plus the odd 61 plate E400 on the X51).

Plus the run through Meriden is worth the money on its own

 

[philthetube]

Generalising daily/weekly tickets are not too bad, single fares are extortionate, different ball game in multi operator areas though.

 

[PaulMc7]

In Glasgow especially with First I think their 4 week and 10 week tickets are great value but anything below isn't great. Single fare prices aren't good at all

 

[tbtc]

Generally good value - the First app lets me buy ten single tickets for £1.80 each (i.e. £18) which is pretty decent.

As others have said above, single "cash" fares are often on the high side but daily/weekly tickets better value - part of the reason being to "game" the concessionary rebate system?

Obviously it'd be better if the fares were heavily subsidised and increases limited to once per year in line with RPI (like train fares are)

I think that part of the problem with the perception of fares is that people have been buying their own bus tickets since they were teenagers, so a £2 single seems expensive when you compare that to the thirty pence that you started paying (as a child, many years ago).

IMHO, it's the same with chip shops - I know plenty of people who are happy to pay over a fiver for a curry (or other exotic dish) but baulk at the fact that a fish supper ("fish and chips" for English members) costs £5 (since they remember buying their own portions years ago, so have price like £1.50 in their heads for What Fish And Chips Ought To Cost. The same is true of cheap chocolate bars (every time the price of a Chomp goes up by a penny there's a million posts on Facebook about it, because we remember how cheap they were in the era when we had to stretch our pocket money as tightly as we could) - but people don't notice a box of Persil going up in price in the same way as you generally weren't buying your own Persil when you were fourteen years old.

So bus fares appear expensive but it might just be the same as one hour in a multi storey car park (however, as people weren't paying for that as teenagers, they don't think the price has increased at the same rate)... if that makes sense?

 

[Llandudno]

Generally good value - the First app lets me buy ten single tickets for £1.80 each (i.e. £18) which is pretty decent.

As others have said above, single "cash" fares are often on the high side but daily/weekly tickets better value - part of the reason being to "game" the concessionary rebate system?

Obviously it'd be better if the fares were heavily subsidised and increases limited to once per year in line with RPI (like train fares are)

I think that part of the problem with the perception of fares is that people have been buying their own bus tickets since they were teenagers, so a £2 single seems expensive when you compare that to the thirty pence that you started paying (as a child, many years ago).

IMHO, it's the same with chip shops - I know plenty of people who are happy to pay over a fiver for a curry (or other exotic dish) but baulk at the fact that a fish supper ("fish and chips" for English members) costs £5 (since they remember buying their own portions years ago, so have price like £1.50 in their heads for What Fish And Chips Ought To Cost. The same is true of cheap chocolate bars (every time the price of a Chomp goes up by a penny there's a million posts on Facebook about it, because we remember how cheap they were in the era when we had to stretch our pocket money as tightly as we could) - but people don't notice a box of Persil going up in price in the same way as you generally weren't buying your own Persil when you were fourteen years old.

So bus fares appear expensive but it might just be the same as one hour in a multi storey car park (however, as people weren't paying for that as teenagers, they don't think the price has increased at the same rate)... if that makes sense?

Crikey where in 2020 can you get a ‘fish supper’ for £5?

More like £7+ unless you go for the mini-fish (a tiddler with lots of batter!)

 

[markymark2000]

In Ellesmere Port, the local bus from near my house to the town centre used to cost about £3.60!

At the time that was extortionate, as it wasn’t really that long a journey, about 10 minutes. I must have been the only cash-paying customer though, most of the patrons were pensioners using their bus pass. All three of them that were usually on when I caught that bus. Me plus those three and the driver must have had a combined age of about 1900! (Give or take 3-4 years).

£3.60 sounds like when Stagecoach first reduced the ticket prices when they bought Chester and Wirral. Now, fares in Eport are like £4.40 return for a 10 minute journey.



In my experience, my local fares are quite cheap because it's a QBP corridor but all other local routes are very highly priced and the quality isn't anything special. I think that overall, bus fares aren't as good value for money as they once were but I can see why they are so expensive (concessionary reimbursement).

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

As others have said above, single "cash" fares are often on the high side but daily/weekly tickets better value - part of the reason being to "game" the concessionary rebate system?

I always think that when people say it's to "game" or "exploit" the system, that it suggest some underhand or quasi-criminal behaviour. It's not - it's the pernicious way that successive governments have firstly set up a system and then sought to transfer the costs of it to either the local authority (whose grant has been successively cut) or to the operator.

When my other half worked in Bath a couple of years ago, her parking cost alone meant it was far cheaper driving to the P&R (we live in the sticks and our tendered bus doesn't really help). On current pre Covid prices, it's £75/wk vs. £18.30 for a weekly ticket on the bus - no brainer.

If you look at single fares, then things will look pricey but you have to look at the different fares packages that might suit you.

 

[Llandudno]

As the vast majority of the GB bus network is commercial (irrespective of the political view re. Franchising, but I won’t go there!)

Then it makes sense to effectively penalise the occasional traveller and offer discounts for loyal customers who use the bus on a frequent basis, either with a day rover or season ticket.

Perhaps most of these single trips are being made by:
I have left my car at the garage for servicing so using the bus for one day per year
My spouse needs the car today I will use the bus
Going to the pub on Saturday night, but catching a taxi back
Snow and ice forecast, so leave car at home to avoid being damaged and catch the bus
Travelling to sports event then having a few beers
Teenagers using bus to town/cinema etc on a Saturday afternoon

Most other bus users are season ticket or concessionary pass holders

I would like to see more bus operators offer family tickets or two together tickets as they may be missing out on revenue as in many small to medium towns it is actually cheaper to prebook a taxi from your front door if two or more people are travelling together.

 

[Geordie driver]

As the vast majority of the GB bus network is commercial (irrespective of the political view re. Franchising, but I won’t go there!)

Then it makes sense to effectively penalise the occasional traveller and offer discounts for loyal customers who use the bus on a frequent basis, either with a day rover or season ticket.

Perhaps most of these single trips are being made by:
I have left my car at the garage for servicing so using the bus for one day per year
My spouse needs the car today I will use the bus
Going to the pub on Saturday night, but catching a taxi back
Snow and ice forecast, so leave car at home to avoid being damaged and catch the bus
Travelling to sports event then having a few beers
Teenagers using bus to town/cinema etc on a Saturday afternoon

Most other bus users are season ticket or concessionary pass holders

I would like to see more bus operators offer family tickets or two together tickets as they may be missing out on revenue as in many small to medium towns it is actually cheaper to prebook a taxi from your front door if two or more people are travelling together.

Very good and accurate post. Lost count of the number of once a year passengers going to pick their car up moaning about the price of the ticket!

 

[JetBlast]

I thought I would add some info about my local service here in Australia. The following tickets will allow you to use unlimited amount of busses, trains and trams within 2 hours. I can get into the city and back on 1 ticket.

Adult Off Peak - £1.05
Adult Peak - £1.90
Concession Off Peak - 50p
Concession Peak - 95p
Student Off Peak - 50p
Student Peak - 64p
Seniors Off Peak - Free
Seniors Peak - 95p

There are also certain routes within the city that are free.

Unlimited 28 day adult pass is £50.

 

[Pat1105]

As the vast majority of the GB bus network is commercial (irrespective of the political view re. Franchising, but I won’t go there!)

Then it makes sense to effectively penalise the occasional traveller and offer discounts for loyal customers who use the bus on a frequent basis, either with a day rover or season ticket.

Perhaps most of these single trips are being made by:
I have left my car at the garage for servicing so using the bus for one day per year
My spouse needs the car today I will use the bus
Going to the pub on Saturday night, but catching a taxi back
Snow and ice forecast, so leave car at home to avoid being damaged and catch the bus
Travelling to sports event then having a few beers
Teenagers using bus to town/cinema etc on a Saturday afternoon

Most other bus users are season ticket or concessionary pass holders

I would like to see more bus operators offer family tickets or two together tickets as they may be missing out on revenue as in many small to medium towns it is actually cheaper to prebook a taxi from your front door if two or more people are travelling together.

Here in the WM, NXWM offer a group ticket for up to 5 people, which also doubles as a family ticket allowing 2 adults and up to 4 children for £8 (£5 after 6pm). There is also the Network Day-tripper ticket and Network Day-tripper Plus (allows travel into border towns in Worcestershire & Warwickshire. These are £14.50/£17.50, which can be used on all local bus operators, West Midlands Metro and train services within the boundaries. I think this is excellent value and the ticket covers a wide area. On the whole though, I find travel in the West Midlands to be exceptional value for money, with tickets available for multiple modes of transport. When I lived in the North of Scotland, public transport was extortionate. For an 8 mile return journey, it would cost £8.80 for a 30 minute journey whereas in the midlands, it only costs £3.30!

 

[Statto]

Isn't Australia similar to London were the local authority set the fares, routes & times & not the company?

 

[JetBlast]

Isn't Australia similar to London were the local authority set the fares, routes & times & not the company?

Correct. Most of it it still government owned - not much of the system is private. It's a good service as well, I use public transport more here than I did in the UK. Even with the cheap price of fuel, insurance and readily available free parking.

 

[Statto]

Correct. Most of it it still government owned - not much of the system is private. It's a good service as well, I use public transport more here than I did in the UK. Even with the cheap price of fuel, insurance and readily available free parking.

Isn't some areas the bus companies are privately owned like i've said the routes, times & fares are controlled by the local authority?

 

[JetBlast]

Isn't some areas the bus companies are privately owned like i've said the routes, times & fares are controlled by the local authority?

It depends on the areas and state I guess.

Like you said I think in some areas busses are ran by a private company under contract and full control of the authority. There isn't a free enterprise.

I know some areas are 100% government.

This isn't my areas but Brisbane works like this:
TransLink this is the equivalent to TFL everything is under this banner - State Government owned.
Trains are run by Queensland Rail - State Government owned.
Busses are run by Brisbane Transport - Local Government owned.

Transdev do something in Melbourne but I am not sure what the situation is.