My opinion: children are safer if they are attending school

[nidave]

Quite a lot of teachers have worked throughout the lockdown.

Not nearly enough for when the schools go back on the 1st June...

 

[Llanigraham]

Quite a lot of teachers have worked throughout the lockdown.

I would go further and say that nearly all teachers are working, just in a different way. Even at Primary level they are emailing pupils, writing teaching plans, writing assignments, using Zoom, etc to contact pupils, printing and delivering stuff for those not on-line, dealing with problems, marking submitted work, liaising with referal units and social services, and also attending some schools on a shift basis where there are pupils present.

I know of no teacher who is sat at home doing sweet nothing.

 

[Ianno87]

I would go further and say that nearly all teachers are working, just in a different way. Even at Primary level they are emailing pupils, writing teaching plans, writing assignments, using Zoom, etc to contact pupils, printing and delivering stuff for those not on-line, dealing with problems, marking submitted work, liaising with referal units and social services, and also attending some schools on a shift basis where there are pupils present.

I know of no teacher who is sat at home doing sweet nothing.

I've been quite impressed about the amount of stuff they're doing, TBH.

 

[yorkie]

Don’t be fooled by this thread as an attempt to have genuine concern for children’s education. It’s a good old excuse to have a go at the unions plain and simple!

Nonsense. I am in a Union and if they start being obstructive I will quit the Union.

I'm glad to hear from some teachers on here that the Unions are not being as awkward as reported however the Unions could do with communicating more clearly to say what they actually want to achieve. I still believe that pretty much any Union will put its members wishes above that of society in general and/or the customers/students (as applicable) first, because - at the end of the day - it is their job to do that. And I also believe that most Unions tend to listen to the most vocal members.

 

[cuccir]

I'm coming round to the idea that we need to have different rules per region in England. The local authority leaders in Gateshead and Harletpool have both said that their R is above 1, ie, still growing. Here in Durham, my wife and I have seen 3 ambulances taking people from their home in the last 10 days, including the woman four doors down during the NHS clap last week; I had not seen any before that. Cases here were low during March and April.

There are parts of the country where children colud go back - where R is down below 0.8 - but it seems to me that we are probably at the height of our outbreak, and a delay of 2-3 weeks would be valuable.

 

[nidave]

At the end of the day there's no point going back like that, they'll grow up to be weirdos. It's either safe to go back and be kids or just don't even bother.

 

[scotrail158713]

Not nearly enough for when the schools go back on the 1st June...

The teachers who won’t be able to go back are still working just now though - as others have said, there will be very few sat at home doing nothing.

 

[DannyMich2018]

Schools are already open for children of Key Workers and vunerable children, no one says much about this at all so it's ok to send these to school, I agree with the Government in England that schools should slowly and steadily re-open in England, many European countries are or will be re-opening schools now. In any case a large proportion of English children will not return to school till September which is when we'd expect many colleages to re-open too.

 

[sjpowermac]

Nonsense. I am in a Union and if they start being obstructive I will quit the Union.

I'm glad to hear from some teachers on here that the Unions are not being as awkward as reported however the Unions could do with communicating more clearly to say what they actually want to achieve. I still believe that pretty much any Union will put its members wishes above that of society in general and/or the customers/students (as applicable) first, because - at the end of the day - it is their job to do that. And I also believe that most Unions tend to listen to the most vocal members.

The teaching unions are an embarrassment at a national level. They know that if they called a strike they wouldn’t win. They also know that if the government want schools open from 1st June then that’s exactly what will happen.

I can only speak for my own area but at a local level though there are some very genuine union reps. They are doing their best to find practical and workable solutions.

The teachers I feel sorry for are those working for some of the less reputable multi academy trusts. I sincerely hope that the unions do manage to do something for those colleagues.

 

[sjpowermac]

Schools are already open for children of Key Workers and vunerable children, no one says much about this at all so it's ok to send these to school, I agree with the Government in England that schools should slowly and steadily re-open in England, many European countries are or will be re-opening schools now. In any case a large proportion of English children will not return to school till September which is when we'd expect many colleages to re-open too.

Don’t worry yourself, if the government want schools open from 1st June then that’s exactly what will happen. All the stories in the press last week were just a bit of union bashing and to give them something to whip up a storm about. On the ground preparations are well advanced.

 

[Puffing Devil]

Don’t worry yourself, if the government want schools open from 1st June then that’s exactly what will happen. All the stories in the press last week were just a bit of union bashing and to give them something to whip up a storm about. On the ground preparations are well advanced.

Maybe someone should have a word with my boy's school: I had an email update from them on Friday stating that they would not be reopening before September. Offspring of Key Workers and Vulnerable Children excepted, as currently.

 

[yorkie]

Schools are already open for children of Key Workers and vunerable children, no one says much about this at all so it's ok to send these to school, I agree with the Government in England that schools should slowly and steadily re-open in England, many European countries are or will be re-opening schools now. In any case a large proportion of English children will not return to school till September which is when we'd expect many colleages to re-open too.

Without knowing what kind of school it is and what areas it serves, it's difficult to comment, but it doesn't sound likely to be the right choice to me.

 

[sjpowermac]

Maybe someone should have a word with my boy's school: I had an email update from them on Friday stating that they would not be reopening before September. Offspring of Key Workers and Vulnerable Children excepted, as currently.

Did the school explain why they are not following what the government have told them to do?

In the email that I received from my school it was made abundantly clear to staff that if the school is open then they are contractually obliged to turn up from 1st June. School open to Year 10 on a limited basis (i.e. not all the year group in everyday) but open to all, not just the children of key workers/vulnerable children.

 

[Puffing Devil]

Did the school explain why they are not following what the government have told them to do?

School leaders and governing bodies are being asked to consider the most appropriate, local response and the Department of Education has issued broad guidelines to help schools to make these decisions.

It appears they have interpreted the decision to open as being a local decision. They have decided to stay closed to pupils and use the time to prepare for a reopening in September.

 

[sjpowermac]

Do you vote Tory by any chance? It's just you seem very supportive of opening schools despite the evidence...

Nope. I’m simply telling you that the teaching unions have no power. They have done practically zero in the last 25 years to protect their members. Schools are not militant work places, contrary to what the press would have you believe.

The last dispute was in 2014, that was over some draconian changes to pensions and contracts. It ushered in the era of ‘performance related pay’ and ‘competency measures’. Sadly the dispute was poorly supported by teachers and soon fizzled out. A result of this has been a significant strengthening of the hand of unscrupulous school managements and academy chains. The idea that the teaching unions have any power is absurd, the government couldn’t care less what the unions say.

I make zero representation as to whether I consider the opening of schools to be ‘safe’ or not: I’m neither a doctor nor an epidemiologist, are you?

What I do know is that my school have told staff that they are contractually obliged to attend. I have a mortgage to pay, hence I will be attending.

 

[sjpowermac]

It appears they have interpreted the decision to open as being a local decision. They have decided to stay closed to pupils and use the time to prepare for a reopening in September.

Would you mind me asking if that’s an LEA school, academy, part of an academy chain or independent school? I understand, of course, if you prefer not to answer.

In my city the head teachers are all working together. There is a mix of academies and LEA schools. The primaries and secondary schools are all opening to the year groups the government has directed from 1st June.

There was a questionnaire for staff to fill in asking about shielding letters, if staff were self isolating, if they had tested positive. The letter also made clear that all those who could attend were contractually obliged to do so.

As with my response to other posters, I make no representation as to the safety of going back to school or its likely effect on the ‘R’ value. I’m neither a doctor nor an epidemiologist. I do, however, need a job and as such will be presenting for work on 1st June.

 

[WelshBluebird]

One thing to consider, that I don't think many people have mentioned, is opening schools will increase travel by quite a lot. It isn't just the kids to think about here.
So even if we say children don't spread it or don't get (too) ill from it, teachers and other staff travelling to schools, parents dropping kids off at schools and school buses having to run will create more journeys for adults too. The school gate drop off got quite mad from what I remember, so that is a particular cause for concern in my eyes.

Then you have the staff rooms, shared classrooms (not all schools have one classroom per member of staff, many teachers use multiple classrooms a day) and other considerations for adults being in a workplace (again ignoring the kids for a second). Are you going to have classroom surface disinfected between lessons etc?

Given the time of the year, and that kids would be starting to wind down for the summer holidays within a couple of weeks anyway, I really do question if it is worth opening schools before the summer. The exam season will have passed so it isn't even like we are getting kids ready for the important bit of the year (insert sarcastic remark about how exam focused our education system is here).

 

[Ianno87]

One thing to consider, that I don't think many people have mentioned, is opening schools will increase travel by quite a lot. It isn't just the kids to think about here.
So even if we say children don't spread it or don't get (too) ill from it, teachers and other staff travelling to schools, parents dropping kids off at schools and school buses having to run will create more journeys for adults too. The school gate drop off got quite mad from what I remember, so that is a particular cause for concern in my eyes.

My son's nursery has said it would address this by revising the collection arrangements, staggering start/finish times, etc.

Buses and social distancing are however and issue for schools with a large catchment. Either extra buses (with the extra cost this brings) or limit pupils who require them (or attendance more generally) to only a percentage of the school each day.

Given the time of the year, and that kids would be starting to wind down for the summer holidays within a couple of weeks anyway, I really do question if it is worth opening schools before the summer. The exam season will have passed so it isn't even like we are getting kids ready for the important bit of the year (insert sarcastic remark about how exam focused our education system is here).

It is important for those moving from Nursery to Reception, Reception to Year 1, Year 6 to Year 7 in particular.

 

[Puffing Devil]

Would you mind me asking if that’s an LEA school, academy, part of an academy chain or independent school? I understand, of course, if you prefer not to answer.

It's an academy converter, not part of a chain.

 

[sjpowermac]

It's an academy converter, not part of a chain.

Thanks for that. An interesting decision on the part of the school. Certainly a very brave Head to make that call...

 

[Llanigraham]

Buses and social distancing are however and issue for schools with a large catchment. Either extra buses (with the extra cost this brings) or limit pupils who require them (or attendance more generally) to only a percentage of the school each day.

And that presumes that the bus companies have extra buses and the extra staff required.
Knowing the company that provides the service around here, it won't happen.

 

[Esker-pades]

Additionally re. the buses, it also assumes that bus companies have the staff to run even the same level of service as they could pre-COVID, let alone thinking of running additional services.

 

[Puffing Devil]

Thanks for that. An interesting decision on the part of the school. Certainly a very brave Head to make that call...

They're saying it's a decision taken by the leadership and the governing body.

We're in a rural area and many of the pupils come in by bus, which may also have affected the decision, per the capacity issues discussed upthread.

 

[sjpowermac]

They're saying it's a decision taken by the leadership and the governing body.

We're in a rural area and many of the pupils come in by bus, which may also have affected the decision, per the capacity issues discussed upthread.

Thank you for that.

Yes, I can imagine transport being a tricky one. In at least some regards schools can put measures in place within school to try and reduce risk. I don’t envy bus drivers and railway staff dealing with the school run at the best of times, let alone right now.

 

[thejuggler]

Any reopening on 1st June will be little more than a hollow victory for both sides.

 

[Wuffle]

My wife is a Data Manager in a Secondary School and currently trying to devise a timetable to allow some children who are taking exams back
There have been online meetings from 8:00 3 days a week to discuss teachers on line lessons
Both our children teach

 

[sjpowermac]

Any reopening on 1st June will be little more than a hollow victory for both sides.

As I understand it, the proposals for Year 10 and 12 are designed to offer them additional support over and above their online learning.

I think plans are still quite fluid but from what I understand, in my city the format of the days will be more like that of a small group seminar rather than a traditional lesson.

Why do you feel this will be a ‘hollow victory’?

 

[Harvey B]

I fully support Mayor Anderson's stance of keeping Liverpool's schools closed until he is satisfied it is safe for them to be reopened again.

100% agree

 

[Ianno87]

Interestingly my son's nursery replied today following their request seeking interest as to which parents would like to have their children return, should they decide to reopen.

It seems that demand for children to return is sufficient that not everybody who wanted a place will be able to have one given the restrictions on numbers that will be in place, and even then only for two half-days per week will be possible.

 

[Ianno87]

And that presumes that the bus companies have extra buses and the extra staff required.
Knowing the company that provides the service around here, it won't happen.

So limiting attendance to fit bus capacity would be the solution.