What lines should we NOT electrify?

[NoMorePacers]

Now, a frequent question that is asked here is "Well, what lines should we electrify?". However, I don't think we should be asking that question.

Instead, I think (and this is me giving my serious opinion) that the question we should be asking is "What lines should we not electrify?". I would assume that the main answers consist of the long, slow, single track, subsidy-dependent branch lines with just a few trains a day (so Esk Valley, Heart of Wales, West Highland Line etc), but I'm interested as to what else would fit the list.

 

[Purple Orange]

The only reason a line should not be electrified is due to resources being used on electrifying other lines, therefore the current state of the unnelectrified lines should be a temporary state. The only valid reason to never electrify a line would be if technology is developed to a point where the traction does not rely on overhead wires for its energy source, but derives a clean source of energy elsewhere.

So why not electrify the west highland line or the elk valley or the heart of wales? Over time (most likely not in our lifetimes) all lines should be rid of carbon emitting trains.

 

[py_megapixel]

Erm... the Stourbridge branch?

 

[scrapy]

I was told that many years ago a proposal to electrify the Hope Valley line was scuppered early in the design stage by the National Park Authority and the local planning department due to overheads having a detrimental effect on the look of the valley. So despite its importance maybe this shouldn't be electrified to preserve the views.

 

[Energy]

I was told that many years ago a proposal to electrify the Hope Valley line was scuppered early in the design stage by the National Park Authority and the local planning department due to overheads having a detrimental effect on the look of the valley. So despite its importance maybe this shouldn't be electrified to preserve the views.

Electrification can look fine though, I think most would agree that the upsides of electrification outweigh that it looks a tiny bit worse.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

I was told that many years ago a proposal to electrify the Hope Valley line was scuppered early in the design stage by the National Park Authority and the local planning department due to overheads having a detrimental effect on the look of the valley. So despite its importance maybe this shouldn't be electrified to preserve the views.

There are ways of doing this. The Swiss Alps is one such example. OHLE can be designed to be aesthetically pleasing (relatively) - it would just cost a little extra - probably.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Anyway, to answer the OPs question.

In the next 25 years – lets be honest, to do everything else is going to take 25 years anyway – I would NOT ELECTRIFY the following:

1. Heart of Wales line
2. Fishguard Harbour (unless you are going to do Milford Haven anyway)
3. West Highland lines to Oban, FW and Mallaig
4. Kyle of Lochalsh
5. The far north line
6. Probably not the Settle and Carlisle

 

[py_megapixel]

There are ways of doing this. The Swiss Alps is one such example. OHLE can be designed to be aesthetically pleasing (relatively) - it would just cost a little extra - probably.

Even if they don't I would honestly rather have the OHLE looking a bit ugly than noisy diesel engines in a national park.
Plus it's not like modern signalling infrastructure or Network Rail's lineside fences are beautiful.

 

[Bevan Price]

(Started before GBALISTAIR's post appeared on line)

As suggested above - anywhere with sparse infrequent services, so, for example:
Anywhere North of Inverness or Helensburgh (West Highland)
Girvan to Stranraer.
Carlisle to Barrow in Furness
Battersby to Whitby
Central Wales Line
Machynlleth to Pwllheli

Some branch lines might, on their own, not justify being electrified, but could be electrified to justify elimination of isolated islands of diesel operation in areas that are mainly electrified.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Don't know if you saw this good news on the twitter feed of Noel Dolphin but --

Noel Dolphin on Twitter

“They are recommending to DfT that electrification increases from 40% of the UK rail network to 80%. That is roughly 11,000 single track KM of electrification to be delivered in next 30 years (2/3).”

twitter.com

Basically NR saying to the Dft there really is no alternative to electrification and recommending increasing the network move for 40% electrified to 80% - just amazing.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Erm... the Stourbridge branch?

Should be electrified alongside the Snow Hill lines; there's little point in diesel islands, it's so short that it'd just require wires.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The Cumbrian Coast I wouldn't send wires round the coast, but I would go to Barrow. That could potentially allow the Coast to be operated using batteries, with them being charged during the run from Manchester Airport.

Conwy Valley...probably wouldn't fit the tunnel! But again batteries might suit. The tunnel aside, though, wiring it (or indeed any branch line) isn't ridiculous - ask the Swiss!

For standalone branch lines which have no prospect of being operated with through services I'd seriously look at a light rail concept similar to the Swiss narrow gauge lines with dedicated off the shelf tram type vehicles being used and DC overhead - a bit like the Sheffield tram train in concept. Keeps the cost down.

 

[Energy]

Should be electrified alongside the Snow Hill lines; there's little point in diesel islands, it's so short that it'd just require wires.

It would probably be cheaper in the long run to electrify it when the rest of the Snow Hill lines get electrified as otherwise a tiny fleet would be required.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It would probably be cheaper in the long run to electrify it when the rest of the Snow Hill lines get electrified as otherwise a tiny fleet would be required.

Indeed. A 4-car EMU might be overkill, but like Lymington or Snorbens it's just easier to keep it all standardised.

(Of course it has a tiny fleet now - of just two units! Though that is a downside of it - you need a spare for that line, rather than a spare which covers a number of potential diagrams - it's the same problem the Marston Vale suffers, and for that reason I'd give that the 25kV treatment and run it with Class 350s).

 

[61653 HTAFC]

So why not electrify the west highland line or the elk valley or the heart of wales? Over time (most likely not in our lifetimes) all lines should be rid of carbon emitting trains.

I think that would be far too deer...

(Sorry, couldn't resist!)

 

[td97]

overheads having a detrimental effect on the look of the valley

Is that because when you compare a photo of OLE in the Austrian/Swiss Alps with a photo of OLE in Reading, the OLE is ugly or Reading is ugly?
Or conversely, the OLE in the Alps looks nice because the Alps look nice?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Is that because when you compare a photo of OLE in the Austrian/Swiss Alps with a photo of OLE in Reading, the OLE is ugly or Reading is ugly?
Or conversely, the OLE in the Alps looks nice because the Alps look nice?

Anyone who thinks OHLE is ugly should go to the north Chilterns or Shap, see the WCML in some stunning scenery, and note that the OHLE really doesn't affect it at all.

And the south WCML is all big hefty portals, too.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Should be electrified alongside the Snow Hill lines; there's little point in diesel islands, it's so short that it'd just require wires.

The downside to that is that 3 carriages (or even two) will always be overkill for the line- so if you electrify you still end up with either a micro fleet of 1/2-car electric units, or massive overcapacity with extended turnarounds. As battery technology improves, simply replacing the small diesel generator with a battery and motor to start the flywheel would make more sense.

 

[London Trains]

None.

All lines should eventually be electrified. The question is more in the order. What has the most benefits to electrify now, and what can be left for, let's say, 50 years.

 

[Purple Orange]

Anyone who thinks OHLE is ugly should go to the north Chilterns or Shap, see the WCML in some stunning scenery, and note that the OHLE really doesn't affect it at all.

And the south WCML is all big hefty portals, too.

And the WCML between Glasgow & Lancaster. Beautiful scenery, unspoilt views, with miles of overhead wires.

I also find beauty in wind turbines.

 

[BigCj34]

I would say OHLE is an acquired taste, just as a steam railway would have been when first built. Remember William Wordsworth was a huge opponent! Nowadays seeing a steam train run on a railway in the countryside is picturesque if not quintessentially British.

I would say the M6 and A74(M), arguably overengineered as they traverse Cumbria and Dumfries and Galloway, are more of an impediment to the landscape than the OHLE on the WCML.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

I would say OHLE is an acquired taste, just as a steam railway would have been when first built. Remember William Wordsworth was a huge opponent! Nowadays seeing a steam train run on a railway in the countryside is picturesque if not quintessentially British.

I would say the M6 and A74(M), arguably overengineered as they traverse Cumbria and Dumfries and Galloway, are more of an impediment to the landscape than the OHLE on the WCML.

Perfectly stated.

 

[OhNoAPacer]

The Cumbrian Coast I wouldn't send wires round the coast, but I would go to Barrow. That could potentially allow the Coast to be operated using batteries, with them being charged during the run from Manchester Airport./QUOTE]

2 hours plus from Barrow to Carlisle, I know battery performance is improving and will improve but not sure about this being feasible, but prepared for someone who knows about these things to correct me. The other issue is charging the batteries to get from Carlisle to Barrow. Okay could wire up platform 2 at Carlisle but usually most services are roll in then roll back out again, so little charging time. There is also the issue of what happens to services that are not going past Barrow or that might start there, or even, either routinely or due to disruption, services that run Carlisle to Whitehaven one way or Barrow to Whitehaven or Workington the other.

If you wire to Barrow in Furness, and I am not against this idea, then either the Cumbrian Coast is left as a diesel island, albeit a long island, or I think other technologies would be needed, say hydrogen.

 

[HSTEd]

Any railway that is not "worth" electrifying should probably be prepared for closure.

A diesel or magically fuel cell railway has little to recommend it over electrified road transport.

 

[class26]

I think that would be far too deer...

(Sorry, couldn't resist!)

You never know, after electrifying the rest of the net work even the UK ought to have the art of electrification sorted and a lot cheaper (relatively)

 

[PeterC]

Anyone who thinks OHLE is ugly should go to the north Chilterns or Shap, see the WCML in some stunning scenery, and note that the OHLE really doesn't affect it at all.

And the south WCML is all big hefty portals, too.

But look at more recent OHLE on the GWML, now that is ugly.

 

[Energy]

But look at more recent OHLE on the GWML, now that is ugly.

The GWML also needs to support high speed trains which will consume more power.

 

[Bletchleyite]

But look at more recent OHLE on the GWML, now that is ugly.

The German stuff isn't pretty but they paint it green, which very much helps it blend in. But it can be made very pretty indeed, look at some of the tram systems.

 

[A Challenge]

The GWML also needs to support high speed trains which will consume more power.

The WCML is also a high speed railway though.

 

[Whistler40145]

Highland Mainlne