Face coverings compulsory on public transport in England from 15 June

[Bantamzen]

Nothing to do with us. I'm still walking around the train answering questions, making sure the bogs haven't packed up, collecting statistics, telling pricks to behave and whatnot. It is the train operators who have conducted their risk assessments regarding cab based working. I'm bored to tears to be honest.

Given BA's stance towards their crew with what even the Tories are calling a blatant attempt to destroy their terms and conditions I can't say I'm that keen to be in their boat.

There's something not quite right about this government accusing anyone of destroying people's employment terms & conditions....

 

[island]

Is it enforced on the tube with the same legislation or by a tfl bylaws?

Both. An instruction relating to safety under section 12.1 of the Byelaws has been published, and the Regulations under the PHA 1984 apply there too.

Are they compulsory in tube stations?

Yes under the instruction relating to safety. No under the Regulations.

 

[Class 33]

I was on the top deck of a double decker bus yesterday in Bristol. I was wearing a face covering, but was the only person on the top deck. When passing a bus coming the other way I noticed a woman on the top deck at the front who wasn't wearing a face covering. "Oh she's not wearing a face covering!" I thought to myself. But then again she was the only person on the top deck, so surely it can't do any harm to be temporarily not wearing a face covering if you're the only person on the top deck of a bus? As long as you keep an eye on if people are coming up the stairs, and if so to then put your face covering back on.

Also on a later journey, I went to the top deck of the bus again. But this time there were several people up there. A few of whomwere not wearing face coverings, even though they were in close proximity to other people. And then another two people boarded and came up to the top deck, who were also not wearing face coverings. It appears a number of bus passengers in Bristol are not wearing face coverings, and First Bristol do not appear to be enforcing this rule very strictly.

 

[adc82140]

It's not up to First Bristol to enforce the rule. Theoretically it's up to the police, but they are never going to have the resources free to do that. It's going to have to be self policing, and yes, common sense will have to come in to it.

 

[duncanp]

It appears a number of bus passengers in Bristol are not wearing face coverings, and First Bristol do not appear to be enforcing this rule very strictly.

Same in Birmingham yesterday, about 50% of passengers were wearing masks (including me) but there was no attempt by any of the drivers to enforce the rule, I guess because there is not much a driver can do if someone point blank refuses to wear a mask.

 

[westv]

I wonder what the compliance rate is in other countries with mandatory face covering rules?

 

[Mojo]

I wonder what the compliance rate is in other countries with mandatory face covering rules?

I suppose the difference is that, in many other countries, society hasn’t been mocking and laughing at people
for wearing face masks for the past few months.

 

[westv]

I suppose the difference is that, in many other countries, society hasn’t been mocking and laughing at people
for wearing face masks for the past few months.

Do we know that though? How many of us look at Spanish or French twitter?

 

[ashkeba]

Do we know that though? How many of us look at Spanish or French twitter?

I do. Well, some French. It appears that people make fun of bad and stupid masks like that guy with a sanitary pad taped on, not simple masks. Lots of leaders and celebritaries are seen masked with little Donald "I'm too important to mask" style protesting.

 

[ashkeba]

Interestingly, TfL's rule appears to have excluded Buffs/snoods which seem ideal for the purpose, because they don't tie behind the head.

They attach behind the head. TfL things I see online say attach not only tie.

 

[island]

The official notice says it must tie. Any websites, tweets, or other reinterpretations of the official notice are not authoritative.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I wonder if they actually don't want Buffs/snoods being used because (a) they tend to be quite thin, and most people won't think to double them over, and (b) they have a habit of slipping down?

 

[Baxenden Bank]

The official notice says it must tie. Any websites, tweets, or other reinterpretations of the official notice are not authoritative.

So Velcro is out of the question then! Much easier for the arthritic, or the single person without a dresser to tie it for them before they leave the house.

 

[Bletchleyite]

So Velcro is out of the question then! Much easier for the arthritic, or the single person without a dresser to tie it for them before they leave the house.

It's really quite bizarre to define it in that way. I know they don't want people using face shields as they protect only the wearer, nor I guess balaclavas due to the CCTV seeing even less than before, but there must surely be a better way to word it than that. "Secure behind the head, but do not cover the head itself" would do.

As an aside, I wonder how effective a niqab is? I guess not very as I think the face piece is mesh?

 

[westv]

The official notice says it must tie. Any websites, tweets, or other reinterpretations of the official notice are not authoritative.

Only a real pendant would be checking everybody to see whether the item was tied or not.

 

[Ianno87]

Only a real pendant would be checking everybody to see whether the item was tied or not.

Just imagining an inspector at the ticket barriers giving everybody a good "twang" on the way past...

 

[Luke McDonnell]

Is a face shield or visor (like a medical face shield) considered a face covering and are they OK to wear? I would also think a motorcycle helmet could also be OK lol especially a full face one with a visor as it would provide a lot of protection.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Is a face shield or visor (like a medical face shield) considered a face covering and are they OK to wear? I would also think a motorcycle helmet could also be OK lol especially a full face one with a visor as it would provide a lot of protection.

No, absolutely not, as they protect only the wearer, they do not catch droplets eminating from that person's breath to prevent them getting to others.

I'm sure you can wear one if you like, but you must also wear a fabric type face covering.

A motorcycle helmet would depend on whether it had a filter on the user's breath, I suspect they don't.

 

[westv]

I think this might be a good idea.

 

[greatkingrat]

No, absolutely not, as they protect only the wearer, they do not catch droplets eminating from that person's breath to prevent them getting to others.

I'm sure you can wear one if you like, but you must also wear a fabric type face covering.

A motorcycle helmet would depend on whether it had a filter on the user's breath, I suspect they don't.

There is no such requirement for any filters. As long as it covers your mouth and nose it meets the criteria.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

My experiences on the train so far are that people are wearing masks when boarding the train and choosing their seat, but once they're settled and they realise there's no-one watching, they pull. the mask down and breathe normally. I think this is a good thing; it's reassuring that people are thinking for themselves and not blindly obeying orders for no good reason.

 

[MikeWM]

My experiences on the train so far are that people are wearing masks when boarding the train and choosing their seat, but once they're settled and they realise there's no-one watching, they pull. the mask down and breathe normally.

Clearly they're not judging well whether anyone is watching (as you must have been

But yes, that seems fairly inevitable, especially with the miserable current loadings.

 

[ashkeba]

The official notice says it must tie. Any websites, tweets, or other reinterpretations of the official notice are not authoritative.

You may like to read that again and notice that it is "...or ties..."

 

[Skymonster]

My experiences on the train so far are that people are wearing masks when boarding the train and choosing their seat, but once they're settled and they realise there's no-one watching, they pull. the mask down and breathe normally. I think this is a good thing; it's reassuring that people are thinking for themselves and not blindly obeying orders for no good reason.

Good - and that's exactly what I will do when I start to travel by train again this weekend.

 

[Skymonster]

No, absolutely not, as they protect only the wearer, they do not catch droplets eminating from that person's breath to prevent them getting to others.

I'm sure you can wear one if you like, but you must also wear a fabric type face covering.

A motorcycle helmet would depend on whether it had a filter on the user's breath, I suspect they don't.

Making rules up by yourself again I see Bletchleyite. The rules say it must cover the nose and mouth. No mention that they must be fabric, no mention that motorcycle helmets are not appropriate. I really don't understand why you can't see it - the rules are so wide open to what you would describe as "loopholes" that they are merely pure theatre aimed at trying to convince the proletariat that the government is doing something, anything. If this was a serious problem, the rules would be much tighter. Most people are too ignorant to question what is being asked of them. Its just another in a long litany of "do what we say without question" edicts from the government (including the lockdown rules), which have been ignored by many with no detriment.

 

[island]

You may like to read that again and notice that it is "...or ties..."

The face covering must (cover their (nose and mouth)) and (attach behind the ears or tie behind their head). In other words, it must either attach behind the ears or tie behind the head. A “gas mask“ does neither of these things.

If you are advancing the bracketing (cover their (nose and mouth) and attach behind the ears) or tie behind their head) I do not think that is what is meant.

 

[alex397]

Good - and that's exactly what I will do when I start to travel by train again this weekend.

How selfish of you. Whether you like them or not, the rules are there. If you don't like them, then find another way to travel.

'If this was a serious problem, the rules would be much tighter

If they were tighter, no doubt you would be moaning about them and trying to find a way out of it.

 

[island]

No, absolutely not, as they protect only the wearer, they do not catch droplets eminating from that person's breath to prevent them getting to others.

I'm sure you can wear one if you like, but you must also wear a fabric type face covering.

Perhaps you might think that such a covering is advisable, or a good idea, or even that it is what they intended to require. But it is not what the law says, and therefore saying you “must also wear a fabric type face covering” is simply not correct.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Perhaps you might think that such a covering is advisable, or a good idea, or even that it is what they intended to require. But it is not what the law says, and therefore saying you “must also wear a fabric type face covering” is simply not correct.

A visor does not "cover the mouth and nose". They remain uncovered from the bottom and sides.

 

[island]

Of course it covers the mouth and nose. I kept hitting my visor when I tried to take a drink of water on the train at the weekend. That’s a cover.

If I take your definition forward, then the “non-medical face coverings” that people are wearing are also non-compliant because they all have little gaps at the top, bottom, and sides, and are not tight to the face.