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Has Boris and the government done a good job of handling the pandemic?

Has Boris and the UK government done a good job of handling the pandemic?

  • Yes

    Votes: 8 4.1%
  • No

    Votes: 140 72.2%
  • No, but no one else could have done better

    Votes: 46 23.7%

  • Total voters
    194
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317 forever

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Boris Johnson was slow to take us into lockdown. On March 16th he encouraged home working and avoiding public transport if possible. On March 20th he ordered bars to close. Then finally on the evening of March 23rd he introduced the lockdown.

By then, the open borders with lack of quarantine, testing etc had enabled a considerable spread of Coronavirus. Sending non-fully recovered patients (even from other conditions) without Coronavirus tests back to care homes exacerbated the spread too.
 
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Ianno87

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I think effectively the last election was a de-facto second Brexit referendum (which was very much in favour of "leave") and not really a proper general election. I can't imagine the former coal towns of the North East voting Tory again in a hurry - they did it for one specific reason.

It was definitely not in favour of leave. More people voted for parties that supported remain or a 2nd Ref (Labour, SNP, Lib Dems) than pro Leave (Tories, Brexit Party). It's only the First Pass the Post system that meant the Tories ended up with a majority (i.e. the non-leave vote was too split)
 

edwin_m

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It was definitely not in favour of leave. More people voted for parties that supported remain or a 2nd Ref (Labour, SNP, Lib Dems) than pro Leave (Tories, Brexit Party). It's only the First Pass the Post system that meant the Tories ended up with a majority (i.e. the non-leave vote was too split)
Boris framed it as a second Brexit referendum but as you say it certainly wasn't. Many people would have voted for the Tories, or not voted at all, because of the dismal nature of the alternative. Had Keir Starmer been Labour leader, then I believe there would at the very least have been a hung parliament.
 

Ianno87

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Boris framed it as a second Brexit referendum but as you say it certainly wasn't. Many people would have voted for the Tories, or not voted at all, because of the dismal nature of the alternative. Had Keir Starmer been Labour leader, then I believe there would at the very least have been a hung parliament.

In terms of the popular vote, the total Tory vote fell by about 300k from 2017 to 2019, but the Labour Vote fell by 2.6 million.

It was not Labour voters turning Tory. It was Labour voters not voting!
 

Huntergreed

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Boris Johnson was slow to take us into lockdown. On March 16th he encouraged home working and avoiding public transport if possible. On March 20th he ordered bars to close. Then finally on the evening of March 23rd he introduced the lockdown.

By then, the open borders with lack of quarantine, testing etc had enabled a considerable spread of Coronavirus. Sending non-fully recovered patients (even from other conditions) without Coronavirus tests back to care homes exacerbated the spread too.
Precisely; and this is exactly the root cause of most of the problems we now face.

We had decided as a nation to adopt an approach of natural herd immunity, which is an effective approach provided that you shield away those who are most vulnerable and likely to die from the virus (ie care homes locked down, those who are currently shielding would have been advised to do so). We didn't do this effectively enough and the virus spread through the vulnerable quickly meaning that, in order to prevent any risk of the NHS being overwhelmed, we had no choice but to enter a national lockdown.

The purpose of the lockdown was achieved weeks ago, and now the government have lost sight of what they're trying to achieve. As I've stated many times now, establishing herd immunity is quite literally the only way out of the pandemic now. The first steps taken by the government were somewhat logical provided that we were planning to follow the herd immunity approach, however, we seem to now have our hearts set on eliminating the virus, which due to the high number of cases in all settings across the country, is simply impossible. The government need to, quite frankly, open their eyes and start to plan on how to best go about achieving herd immunity on the presumption that we may never get a vaccine, as this current approach of pretending to ourselves we can eliminate the virus in order to convince the public that we're 'safe' is just immature and pointless and is causing serious damage to the economy, our mental health, the education of our children, and many other aspects of society.

Moderator note: Some posts from here on moved to
 
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yorkie

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Actually cannot believe the borders were left open without quarantine.
We would have had to close the borders some time in 2019 to keep it out! Would that have been achievable ? what about bringing people back who were abroad at the time? There were potentially somewhere between 300,000 and a million British people affected; where would you have quarantined them?

The virus was estimated to have been brought into the UK on at least 1,300 occasions. Some of the cases could have been much earlier than originally thought.
 

SouthEastBuses

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No because he imposed the lockdown, mandatory quarantine and mandatory face masks on public transport way too late, in my opinion.

My last trip on buses was on the 9th of March, and since then I avoided public transport. That was the date when the whole of Italy went under lockdown, yet the life in the UK was really normal. Johnson, in my opinion, should have imposed the lockdown at about the same date as Italy did, in order to reduce the deaths.

And he should have imposed mandatory quarantine on, China to begin with (in February), then northern Italy at the end of February, and the rest of the world on the first day of lockdown (not the real one).

All he basically cares about is himself and the UK economy. Damn these Conservative idiots (no offence to anyone who likes the Conservatives politicians, this is just my opinion).
 

SouthEastBuses

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Oh and he forgot to close the borders to non essential travel like Italy and many other European countries did.

Also, he closed the schools too late and banned mass gatherings too late.
 

jfollows

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All he basically cares about is himself and the UK economy. Damn these Conservative idiots (no offence to anyone who likes the Conservatives politicians, this is just my opinion).
Actually, all that Boris Johnson cares about is Boris Johnson.
And, if possible, his reputation at the expense of anyone or anything else.
The thing is, I've known this for a long time. Actually, I think most people have known this for a long time, but many people haven't cared. Maybe that'll change in future? I can but hope!
 

SouthEastBuses

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Actually, all that Boris Johnson cares about is Boris Johnson.
And, if possible, his reputation at the expense of anyone or anything else.
The thing is, I've known this for a long time. Actually, I think most people have known this for a long time, but many people haven't cared. Maybe that'll change in future? I can but hope!

Indeed, as I've just said, all he cares about is himself. And tbf I'd agree with you that he cares about himself even more than the economy.

That's Conservatives for you.
 

ainsworth74

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It was definitely not in favour of leave.

I didn't speak to many people who were voting Tory (or at least were willing to admit it!) but of the people I did speak to who were voting Tory it wasn't Brexit that was their driving factor. It was Corbyn...
 

Bletchleyite

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I didn't speak to many people who were voting Tory (or at least were willing to admit it!) but of the people I did speak to who were voting Tory it wasn't Brexit that was their driving factor. It was Corbyn...

True. Labour essentially threw away victory - someone like Starmer would have won with a landslide, I reckon, particularly if he had also declared himself pro Brexit.
 

jfollows

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The Economist notes that the Brexit project rests on the shoulders of "two journalists and a maniac" and that the current government supports "the four biggest lemons in British politics", specifically Priti Patel, Gavin Williamson, Chris Grayling and Liam Fox. With such a shortage of talent, exacerbated by requiring "Brexit purity" on its recruits, it isn't very surprising that it's failing in many areas. The article does conclude by recognising that Boris Johnson, unlike Donald Trump, does at least listen to scientific advice.
Bagehot
The talent dearth in Britain’s government

Dance of the lemons

America's public education system has given the world two pungent mismanagement phrases: the “dance of the lemons” and the “rubber room”. The power of teachers’ unions makes their members hard to sack, so school districts either shuffle bad teachers from one school to another (“the dance of the lemons”) or put them in a downtown office (“the rubber room”) where they twiddle their thumbs and draw their salaries.
The case of the four biggest lemons in British politics suggests that the government has adopted this approach. Priti Patel and Gavin Williamson were both sacked by Theresa May for bad behaviour. Chris Grayling failed so spectacularly in every job he undertook that the Labour Party calculated he had cost taxpayers £2.7bn. Liam Fox lost not one but two cabinet positions—first the secretaryship of defence in 2011 because he had allowed a friend to accompany him on official trips and then the job of trade secretary in 2019 because Boris Johnson no longer required his services.
All have spent time in the rubber room only to bounce back into front-line politics. Ms Patel and Mr Williamson are home secretary and education secretary respectively. Ms Patel has proved so inarticulate that she is rarely allowed on the media; Mr Williamson has become a patsy of teachers’ unions that seem determined to keep children out of classrooms. Mr Johnson recently nominated Mr Fox to run the World Trade Organisation (wto) and Mr Grayling to chair the House of Commons Intelligence and Security Committee (isc). Mr Fox’s nomination is dead on arrival: nobody (other than him) regards him as a serious candidate and his application consists mainly of quotations from his own speeches. “Failing Grayling” lived up to his nickname by getting pipped at the post for the committee chairmanship by his fellow Conservative mp, Julian Lewis. “Only Grayling could lose a rigged election,” sighed the pro-Brexit Guido Fawkes website.
Britain’s political system puts artificial constraints on the supply of talent. In many countries you can become a minister without being an mp. In Britain you have to get into Parliament. That means living in one of the world’s most expensive cities on a modest salary and putting up with being treated as a liar by regular voters and subjected to abuse by an ever larger unhinged fringe.
The government has exacerbated the problem by imposing a Brexit purity test on recruits, thereby turning Brexiteers into the country’s mightiest-ever trade union. There are certainly a few competent Brexiteers, most obviously the chancellor, Rishi Sunak. But the supply is necessarily limited. Lord Mandelson, who was rejected as Britain’s candidate for the wto despite being far better qualified than Mr Fox, argues that “the Brexit gene pool” is not big enough to “produce all the people we need to work in public life”. The British establishment (including a majority of Tory mps in 2016) was against leaving the eu. This was particularly true of people with expertise in Brexit-related areas such as trade policy.
When Mr Johnson opted for a hard line on Brexit, the Tory Party lost first-class people such as David Gauke and Rory Stewart. By requiring cabinet ministers to support a “do or die” Brexit, the prime minister denied himself the service of able pragmatists who opposed Brexit but accepted the result of the referendum, such as Jeremy Hunt and Tom Tugendhat. True believers, meanwhile, are getting preferment, irrespective of their abilities or qualifications: Mr Fox is a long-standing booster of the Anglosphere while the hapless Mr Grayling was one of the first six cabinet ministers to announce that they intended to campaign to leave the EU.
This talent shortage is proving more damaging by the day. The entire Brexit project increasingly rests on the shoulders of just three people, Mr Johnson, Michael Gove, the Cabinet Office minister, and Dominic Cummings, the prime minister’s chief adviser—“two journalists and a maniac” in the words of a former mp—who have to deal with covid-19 as well as forging a new relationship with Europe. Britain has long prided itself on its ability to punch above its weight in international institutions. Mr Fox’s wto application was treated with incredulity in the organisation’s Geneva headquarters, and alarm in Britain’s foreign-policy establishment, which worries that the government is either indifferent or blind to global opinion. “What’s next?”, asks a mandarin, “ids (Iain Duncan Smith) for the imf or jrm (Jacob Rees-Mogg) for the un?”
The isc debacle shows how counterproductive Mr Johnson’s personnel-management can be. The committee’s job is to bring democratic oversight to the secret world—or not. It has been sitting for months on a report on Russian interference in British politics that may prove inconvenient to the government. It is widely assumed that Mr Grayling was chosen for the job because he would be pliant. The day after the committee got its new chairman—who was instantly thrown out of the Tory party for conspiring with Labour mps to get the job—it announced that it would publish the report before July 29th, when Parliament packs up for summer. Westminster waits with bated breath, and the prime minister finds himself undermined by his lemon-promotion.
Populist revolutions are always in danger of falling into a familiar trap. Their leaders mobilise outsiders against insiders and neophytes against old hands. But those who win find themselves running the country, which requires the services of clever, competent types. Recruiting and retaining such people does not come naturally to populists. Donald Trump has included a former contestant on his game show (Omarosa Manigault Newman), a far-right activist (Steve Bannon) and law-breakers (Michael Flynn and Roger Stone) in his entourage, while sneering at those who know their stuff, such as Dr Anthony Fauci, his covid-19 adviser.
Mr Johnson has shown that he’s wilier than Mr Trump by listening to scientists during this crisis. He still has a chance to redeem his premiership by restocking his government with talent from across the party. But his enthusiasm for rubber-room residents such as Messrs Fox and Grayling does not bode well.
 
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