First Greater Glasgow

[Jordan Adam]

One of the 41 branded E400MMCs has been deroofed in Dumbarton.

Bus loses roof after driving under Dumbarton Central Station bridge

A bus was left without a roof after driving under a low-lying railway bridge on Saturday morning.

www.glasgowtimes.co.uk

A bus was left without a roof after driving under a low-lying railway bridge on Saturday morning.

Debris from the crash was left covering Townend Road by Dumbarton Central Station.

The First Bus coach left its entire top-end behind in one piece, however, luckily nobody was injured in the incident.
Emergency services rushed to the scene just before 7am to recover the bus and remove the wreckage from the road.
Police Scotland confirmed that a man had been reported for road traffic offences.

First Bus confirmed to the Glasgow Times that the bus was out of service at the time of the incident.


A local resident Jack Hanlon, a self-employed carpenter, said the bridge gets hit every "couple of years".

He took pictures of crash and wrote: "Dumbarton central stations doing convertible conversions again.

"Rough start to Saturday for this bus driver."


A spokesman for First Bus said: "We can confirm an out of service bus has been involved in an incident on Townsend Road, Dumbarton.

"There are no reported injuries from anybody on-board at the time or members of the public.

"Emergency services attended the scene and the bus is in the process of being recovered.

“The safety and well-being of our passengers, drivers and the public are our number one priority and we are conducting a full investigation to determine how this incident happened.”


Managing director of Scotland's railway, Alex Hynes, took to Twitter to warn drivers to be aware of their vehicle height.

He wrote: "Thankfully no-one was injured. But, on an average day, the drivers of five heavy goods vehicles/buses put themselves, road users and passengers at risk.

"Do you know the height of your vehicle?"

A Police Scotland spokeswoman said: "Police were called around 6.55am on Saturday, 27 June, 2020, following the report of a one-vehicle road crash involving a double decker bus that had collided with a bridge on Townend Road, Dumbarton.


"There were no injuries as a result of the incident and a man has been reported for road traffic offences."

 

[PaulMc7]

One of the 41 branded E400MMCs has been deroofed in Dumbarton.

Not my photo.

Hope nobody is hurt in that

 

[Jordan Adam]

Hope nobody is hurt in that

Don't believe anyone was, the bus appears to have been empty at the time.

 

[Glasgowbusguy]

Here is another photo of the us that hit Dumbarton Central Bridge today.

 

[Bus Lightyear]

All the X4 really done was push more people onto the train at Westerton, Scotstounhill and Jordanhill.

How do you know that? Are you out doing surveys? The X4 is much quicker than the old 44 so why do you think people would decide to walk further for the train especially Westerton which isn't all that handy for a lot of Knightswood folk due to a rather indirect footpath network.

With how unreliable the 38s are most of the time you wouldn't have any idea that they're every 5 mins.

High frequency bus routes have always been seen as being unreliable as they tend to bunch if the bus in front gets busy. It's an issue industry wide and could be helped with improved bus priority

There would still be 4 88s an hour and 3 89s between the City Centre and Bishopbriggs which generally from what I've experienced would be enough.

A challenge for you. Try writing down the departure times at Bishopbriggs Cross of 3 89s per hour and 4 88s and see how it works.

 

[PaulMc7]

How do you know that? Are you out doing surveys? The X4 is much quicker than the old 44 so why do you think people would decide to walk further for the train especially Westerton which isn't all that handy for a lot of Knightswood folk due to a rather indirect footpath network.

The main complaint to the 4 being cut back to Broomhill was the lack of a West end link from Knightswood so people were left with no choice but to get the train plus as I say there were a lot of schoolkids who had to switch too because they couldn't use the 4 to Hyndland. I used the bus enough to know.


High frequency bus routes have always been seen as being unreliable as they tend to bunch if the bus in front gets busy. It's an issue industry wide and could be helped with improved bus priority

It could be but at the same time even when the 38s split up they're still not great because they're timetabled so unrealistically so don't have much of a chance to begin with


A challenge for you. Try writing down the departure times at Bishopbriggs Cross of 3 89s per hour and 4 88s and see how it works.

It would still work just minus 1 bus an hour. It's hardly the biggest overhaul in existence plus as I say it's a short working that's not ever that busy from experience. It's hardly like I'm cutting out an overly busy bus that goes the full route plus it's worth noting that with precovid timetables the way the 88/89s were due at Bishopbriggs anyway didn't work out great. It was 01,02,16,17,31,32,46,47

 

[PaulMc7]

Another thing that always irks me with First as a whole is the whole centralised social media use. It's 2020 and useful social media would definitely help matters for enquiries. Would also help get feedback on what people want from a journey tbh especially when you need to be on the public's side if you don't want to lose income. Not everyone is tech savvy but it would certainly be an option to connect with younger people

 

[ScotRail158725]

One of the 41 branded E400MMCs has been deroofed in Dumbarton.

Not my photo.

33441

 

[route101]

Another thing that always irks me with First as a whole is the whole centralised social media use. It's 2020 and useful social media would definitely help matters for enquiries. Would also help get feedback on what people want from a journey tbh especially when you need to be on the public's side if you don't want to lose income. Not everyone is tech savvy but it would certainly be an option to connect with younger people

Thats why i never tweet First Glasgow . I feel for the older folk , who dont have internet access, with reduced timetables and suspended services.

 

[PaulMc7]

Thats why i never tweet First Glasgow . I feel for the older folk , who dont have internet access, with reduced timetables and suspended services.

Yeah it's a horrible time for them with so much confusion I'd imagine especially if a lot don't have much in the way of close family etc

 

[Glasgowbusguy]

Just seen a branded 75 in town with a door glass smash anyone know what happened?

 

[GaryBrown156]

So does anyone know what the likely outcome for 33441 (the deroofed Enviro 400 MMC in Dumbarton) will be?. Is that kind of damage repairable or would it be uneconomical to do so?.
Also, has there been any update on the 38 branded Enviro 400 which caught fire a few months back and is that bus repairable or is it a right off?.
Apologies for my lack of knowledge on the subject but I have always been curious about what happens to deroofed buses. I vaguely recall some Larbert based Olympian a few year's back which I believe had roof damage and was repaired as it differed in appearance at the rear from the rest of the fleet but I don't know whether that bus had been fully deroofed or just required a patch up?.

Apologies in advance if this is an inappropriate place to ask, not posted a great deal lol.

 

[Bus Lightyear]

It would still work just minus 1 bus an hour. It's hardly the biggest overhaul in existence plus as I say it's a short working that's not ever that busy from experience. It's hardly like I'm cutting out an overly busy bus that goes the full route plus it's worth noting that with precovid timetables the way the 88/89s were due at Bishopbriggs anyway didn't work out great. It was 01,02,16,17,31,32,46,47

No it wasn't

https://www.firstgroup.com/uploads/update-attach/88_89%20TT.pdf

 

[Bus Lightyear]

So does anyone know what the likely outcome for 33441 (the deroofed Enviro 400 MMC in Dumbarton) will be?. Is that kind of damage repairable or would it be uneconomical to do so?.
Also, has there been any update on the 38 branded Enviro 400 which caught fire a few months back and is that bus repairable or is it a right off?.
Apologies for my lack of knowledge on the subject but I have always been curious about what happens to deroofed buses. I vaguely recall some Larbert based Olympian a few year's back which I believe had roof damage and was repaired as it differed in appearance at the rear from the rest of the fleet but I don't know whether that bus had been fully deroofed or just required a patch up?.

Apologies in advance if this is an inappropriate place to ask, not posted a great deal lol.

If I was a betting man I would say it probably will be repaired and returned to service as it's only 4 years old.

The fire damaged E400 from 6 months back I would assume is under investigation from the insurers so it could be a while before we know the outcome.

Most deroofed buses tend to be repaired and returned to service unless they're very old like 14+ years old.

One of the most unusual examples was Strathclyde's Buses Ailsa AV10 (MGE 185P) which was deroofed going under a very low bridge and became single decker AS2.

 

[PaulMc7]

No it wasn't

https://www.firstgroup.com/uploads/update-attach/88_89%20TT.pdf

Read it from Bishopbriggs Cross towards Strathkelvin.

88s were 01,16,31,46
89s were 02,17,32,47

 

[Bus Lightyear]

Read it from Bishopbriggs Cross towards Strathkelvin.

88s were 01,16,31,46
89s were 02,17,32,47

It is an even frequency from Bishopbriggs to Buchanan and return. Obviously the 88 going via Balgrayhill knocks it off by the time they've all come together again northbound at Colston.

So tell me how are you going to achieve your 15 minute frequency and 20 minute frequency on even intervals?

 

[PaulMc7]

It is an even frequency from Bishopbriggs to Buchanan and return. Obviously the 88 going via Balgrayhill knocks it off by the time they've all come together again northbound at Colston.

So tell me how are you going to achieve your 15 minute frequency and 20 minute frequency on even intervals?

The only way to have an even frequency at Bishopbriggs is by having the 88 and 89 leave Buchanan Bus Station at the same time so there will always be an imbalance somewhere. The 87 and 89 currently leave together so there's no imbalance at Balgrayhill. I've never said you can completely negate an imbalance on those routes. Only way you could come close is by chopping a couple of minutes out of the timetable but given how many 88s I've been on that run late I wouldn't do that either.

It's a case of where do you want the imbalance? It would be make more sense to have it at Balgrayhill with the 87/88 because it's not as far into the route as the Bishopbriggs imbalance is plus the 87/88 split at the end of Balgrayhill anyway

 

[ScotRail158725]

So does anyone know what the likely outcome for 33441 (the deroofed Enviro 400 MMC in Dumbarton) will be?. Is that kind of damage repairable or would it be uneconomical to do so?.
Also, has there been any update on the 38 branded Enviro 400 which caught fire a few months back and is that bus repairable or is it a right off?.
Apologies for my lack of knowledge on the subject but I have always been curious about what happens to deroofed buses. I vaguely recall some Larbert based Olympian a few year's back which I believe had roof damage and was repaired as it differed in appearance at the rear from the rest of the fleet but I don't know whether that bus had been fully deroofed or just required a patch up?.

Apologies in advance if this is an inappropriate place to ask, not posted a great deal lol.

33441 will get a roof, theres no structural damage so it will just get a roof from the production line and will be out within the next year, 34368 is getting a rebody, again parts taken off the ADL production line

 

[Jordan Adam]

So does anyone know what the likely outcome for 33441 (the deroofed Enviro 400 MMC in Dumbarton) will be?. Is that kind of damage repairable or would it be uneconomical to do so?.
Also, has there been any update on the 38 branded Enviro 400 which caught fire a few months back and is that bus repairable or is it a right off?.
Apologies for my lack of knowledge on the subject but I have always been curious about what happens to deroofed buses. I vaguely recall some Larbert based Olympian a few year's back which I believe had roof damage and was repaired as it differed in appearance at the rear from the rest of the fleet but I don't know whether that bus had been fully deroofed or just required a patch up?.

Apologies in advance if this is an inappropriate place to ask, not posted a great deal lol.

It will get repaired. The roof on modern double deckers is designed to come clean off like that instead of crumpling, it's much safer if there's passengers upstairs.

 

[adrock1976]

I think there definitely needs to be some sort of shake up of the network outside of the core routes and ones with newer branded buses. The 32 is a strange one to me because it's always been busy any time I've got it and I've heard people on it a few times say that they wish it ran later than it does.

I do think a lot of services need a rework though especially with route. 34/34A could just be merged into one too.

I'd include the following for route changes or cuts:

3- route trim
X4- peak only with the 4 going to Knightswood again
6- route trim
8- route trim
16- route change
38E- Cut and 38B extended permanently
57-If Aviva close at Westerhill extend the 57 to Strathkelvin Retail Park
60/60A- route trim
64- Cut and extend 43 to Carmyle
87- Cut X2 and extend 87 to Robroyston
89B- Cut and send 89A through Mavis Valley
90- Route trim
201- route trim

Would create new routes to cover the cuts and trims allowing for new options for people too.

Also now knowing that Braehead could be gone after 3-6 months it'll be interesting to see what First do with the 9A/77/90 going forward

Regarding the 89, the present (pre C-19) has them running to Kilsyth every 30 minutes via the A803.

I would transfer this route to Larbert and extend one of these every 60 min to Falkirk (taking over the present X35 between Kilsyth and Falkirk), with the other 89 extended to run to Stirling. This would be more or less putting back the former X24 and X27 routes.

The only thing that is truly "express" about the present X35 is that it is limited stop between the Royal Infirmary and Crow Wood Interchange (A80/M80 Junction 3). There is a much shorter route between Muirhead and Falkirk via Cumbernauld Town Centre with the X36/X37.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Regarding the 89, the present (pre C-19) has them running to Kilsyth every 30 minutes via the A803.

I would transfer this route to Larbert and extend one of these every 60 min to Falkirk (taking over the present X35 between Kilsyth and Falkirk), with the other 89 extended to run to Stirling. This would be more or less putting back the former X24 and X27 routes.

The only thing that is truly "express" about the present X35 is that it is limited stop between the Royal Infirmary and Crow Wood Interchange (A80/M80 Junction 3). There is a much shorter route between Muirhead and Falkirk via Cumbernauld Town Centre with the X36/X37.

Doing that would put reliability at risk, which is likely part of the reason the 24/27 were axed in the first place.

 

[awsnews]

It will get repaired. The roof on modern double deckers is designed to come clean off like that instead of crumpling, it's much safer if there's passengers upstairs.

Apparently the roof was in one piece in the road on the other side of the railway bridge. This is just the latest incident for this bridge which is marked as 3.9m and unfortunately probably won't be the last. I don't know when it appeared but there is now a notice on a lamppost on the north side of the bridge stating all routes to turn left ahead.
As an aside does anyone know the list of vehicles temporarily transferred to Dumbarton for the revised timetable?
I know of E400MMCs 33439/33441/33442, 33989-43, 34396-98, 34400 and Volvos 32301, 37535/6, 37585, 37588.

 

[GusB]

Some of the posts in the thread were drifting slightly off-topic with reference to the SPT tendered service changes. While I appreciate there is some relevance to First Glasgow, I have moved these to a new thread for further discussion.

SPT Tendered Routes

*Mod note* Posts 1-34 were originally in this thread: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/first-greater-glasgow.164437/ https://www.firstgroup.com/greater-glasgow/news-and-service-updates/planned-changes/changes-spt-tendered-services-sunday-12 SPT changes announced too now. 31 absolutely...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[adrock1976]

Doing that would put reliability at risk, which is likely part of the reason the 24/27 were axed in the first place.

How does that explain the Falkirk - Kilsyth section (of the X35) still running to Glasgow, but via a more convoluted route of Croy Station, Craiglinn Roundabout, North Road, Condorrat, Mollinsburn, Muirhead, and Royal Infirmary?

 

[Jordan Adam]

Apparently the roof was in one piece in the road on the other side of the railway bridge. This is just the latest incident for this bridge which is marked as 3.9m and unfortunately probably won't be the last. I don't know when it appeared but there is now a notice on a lamppost on the north side of the bridge stating all routes to turn left ahead.
As an aside does anyone know the list of vehicles temporarily transferred to Dumbarton for the revised timetable?
I know of E400MMCs 33439/33441/33442, 33989-43, 34396-98, 34400 and Volvos 32301, 37535/6, 37585, 37588.

Indeed photos show that the roof was. As I say, in a bridge collision the roof is designed on modern buses to come off clean like that to avoid it crumpling and potentially crushing a passenger.

 

[GaryBrown156]

Thanks to Bus Lightyear, Jordan Adam and ScotRail158725 for answering my question regarding the fate of 33441 and the burned 38 branded Enviro 400 MMC. I'm glad these buses are likely to be repaired and will return to service. As both these vehicles are relatively new it would be a shame for them to be scrapped. I wasn't sure how difficult/cost efficient it was to reroof a bus but I'm glad it isn't as difficult as I thought. I used to think the fate of deroofed deckers was either open toppers, spare parts or scrap so I'm glad that is not the case.
Thanks again guys

 

[ScotRail158725]

Thanks to Bus Lightyear, Jordan Adam and ScotRail158725 for answering my question regarding the fate of 33441 and the burned 38 branded Enviro 400 MMC. I'm glad these buses are likely to be repaired and will return to service. As both these vehicles are relatively new it would be a shame for them to be scrapped. I wasn't sure how difficult/cost efficient it was to reroof a bus but I'm glad it isn't as difficult as I thought. I used to think the fate of deroofed deckers was either open toppers, spare parts or scrap so I'm glad that is not the case.
Thanks again guys

De-roofings of vehicles is more than likely a repair job, if the vehicles old or if it causes structural damage (e.g. lothian 1029) then chances are it wont come back but on a 4 year old vehicle with a clean cut, especially when this type of bus is still in production the. its a pretty cheap fix. unsure if it will come back with a yellow front though, especially 34368 wich i reckon will come back in the plain livery

 

[scosutsut]

That bridge has claimed many a victim over the years despite being well signed and in clear view especially in that direction, the diversion to avoid it is very minor too, although does force an awkward semi blind right hand turn.

You'd think in this modern world of technology a solution could and should exist to help avoid incidents like this!

 

[route101]

Was in the City today. Nice to see more buses. Seems eclipses are still off the road.

 

[M803UYA]

That bridge has claimed many a victim over the years despite being well signed and in clear view especially in that direction, the diversion to avoid it is very minor too, although does force an awkward semi blind right hand turn.

You'd think in this modern world of technology a solution could and should exist to help avoid incidents like this!

There is, it's a device called Bridgeclear which detects such things. Unfortunately it costs money which is where the operator tends to lose interest.....