Buying ticket online/app after starting journey.

[robbeech]

It’s well known and documented (though I’m sure some will disagree with the concept) that if you are to use an electronic ticket type you must have purchased it and in the case of the horrific M-Tickets, activated it before you board the train, and likely before you go through the barriers where this applies. However, does this apply from unstaffed stations where no other suitable ticket purchasing facilities exist? (No ticket office, no machine, or no machine that accepts cash*)

To use a random journey example, near me, Say you wanted to travel from Kiveton Park to London, changing at Sheffield.

There’s a ticket machine at Kiveton Park, but it only takes cards.
You are permitted to board the train and purchase a ticket from the guard, but the guard doesn’t show and you only have 10 minutes in Sheffield so decide to buy a ticket online, despite you not being obliged to do so, it’s the same price and it saves the potential hassle. At Darnall, RPIs board and are unhappy that the time stamp on the ticket is after you boarded the train, would they be legally entitled to hand out a penalty fare because you bought a ticket after commencing travel given that you now used a card to purchase the ticket instead of the cash you’d originally planned to give the guard?

TLDR
When using an electronic ticket type are you obliged to have purchased and activated it before boarding even if there are no suitable ticket facilities?

 

[Haywain]

It’s well known and documented (though I’m sure some will disagree with the concept) that if you are to use an electronic ticket type you must have purchased it and in the case of the horrific M-Tickets, activated it before you board the train, and likely before you go through the barriers where this applies. However, does this apply from unstaffed stations where no other suitable ticket purchasing facilities exist? (No ticket office, no machine, or no machine that accepts cash*)

To use a random journey example, near me, Say you wanted to travel from Kiveton Park to London, changing at Sheffield.

There’s a ticket machine at Kiveton Park, but it only takes cards.
You are permitted to board the train and purchase a ticket from the guard, but the guard doesn’t show and you only have 10 minutes in Sheffield so decide to buy a ticket online, despite you not being obliged to do so, it’s the same price and it saves the potential hassle. At Darnall, RPIs board and are unhappy that the time stamp on the ticket is after you boarded the train, would they be legally entitled to hand out a penalty fare because you bought a ticket after commencing travel given that you now used a card to purchase the ticket instead of the cash you’d originally planned to give the guard?

TLDR
When using an electronic ticket type are you obliged to have purchased and activated it before boarding even if there are no suitable ticket facilities?

When ticket purchasing facilities are available you should always purchase a ticket before boarding the train, subject to your chosen method of payment being available. If you purchase on a phone, paying by card, it would be difficult to argue that your chosen method of payment was unavailable at the station. As only m-Tickets have to be activated, that is only relevant if you buy an m-Ticket, which is something that members of this forum advise against. Whether revenue staff would take action for your purchase after boarding is debatable, but the actions you suggest would give an impression that you have only chosen to pay due to their presence.

 

[robbeech]

When ticket purchasing facilities are available you should always purchase a ticket before boarding the train, subject to your chosen method of payment being available. If you purchase on a phone, paying by card, it would be difficult to argue that your chosen method of payment was unavailable at the station. As only m-Tickets have to be activated, that is only relevant if you buy an m-Ticket, which is something that members of this forum advise against. Whether revenue staff would take action for your purchase after boarding is debatable, but the actions you suggest would give an impression that you have only chosen to pay due to their presence.

I wasn’t specifically talking about buying a ticket because you’d seen the RPI, if I were in that situation I would NOT buy one and wait to speak to them, but using the above example if, as is common on that line you don’t see the guard after Kiveton Park, after Kiveton Bridge, or Woodhouse then it’s fairly clear they’re not doing revenue duties (I’m talking about pre and post COVID) so you purchase after boarding but before the RPI gets on. I see you mention about a method of payment being unavailable, and this is where there is to be some debate as there’s no obligation to use a particular payment method providing you have another accepted one.
For avoidance of doubt on this point, you could buy the ticket using PayPal which had a positive balance and did not need a card.

 

[Haywain]

For avoidance of doubt on this point, you could buy the ticket using PayPal which had a positive balance and did not need a card.

Yes, and you could do that before boarding the train.

 

[robbeech]

Yes, and you could do that before boarding the train.

But you were not obliged to do so. And you’d PREFER to use cash to buy from the guard but the guard for whatever reason doesn’t perform revenue duties. So essentially it appears that whilst most of the time the date stamp wouldn’t be checked, if it was you’d be penalised for trying your best to make your journey easier and make it easier for staff aswell.

 

[30907]

Does the machine in this case not issue Promise to Pay?

 

[yorkie]

Does the machine in this case not issue Promise to Pay?

If it does, you are then effectively promising to pay by cash though.

 

[Belperpete]

On a recent trip from a station that has neither ticket office or TVM, when the guard went through explaining that he would not be selling tickets, some passengers asked him if it was OK to buy them on-line now they were on the train, and he was quite happy with that.

 

[30907]

If it does, you are then effectively promising to pay by cash though.

But the OP said that's what he was (hypothetically) intending to do.

 

[robbeech]

The stations used were a generic example so I wasn’t intending bring promise to pay into it. So if we assume it didn’t exist, or it was another journey without this. Or assume that a promise to pay was held.