Companies That You Expect to Disappear Soon

[FQTV]

Costa is supposed to be preferred by female customers. Not sure why!

Costa really has been very impressive in the way that it markets itself, designs its stores, locates and co-locates and merchandises its products. I assume that they’re some of the reasons that Coca-Cola took interest.

The beans are the same and the milk same so some drinks could taste similar. I don't mind a black americano from a machine, but it doesn't have the same crema as a good quality barista made drink. For more complex drinks a machine is not going to be able to deliver the same quality drink as a skilled barista as there is feedback on the jug through vibrations, the sounds made from the milk etc which a person could react to. Equally the pour from a machine may be consistent but can't adapt for different quality milks or temps etc. A person can see if something has gone wrong and rectify it, a machine can't, a person can apply their personality with latte art etc, which a machine can't. A well-looked after machine however could deliver a more consistent product compared to an unskilled barista. These are just my personal observations.

I think that you’re absolutely right, too. A well-maintained barista machine is superlative, but if it’s not looked after, it’ll be worse than instant. It’s absolutely analogous to well-kept real ale, and an overly warm can!

 

[Iskra]

Costa really has been very impressive in the way that it markets itself, designs its stores, locates and co-locates and merchandises its products. I assume that they’re some of the reasons that Coca-Cola took interest.



I think that you’re absolutely right, too. A well-maintained barista machine is superlative, but if it’s not looked after, it’ll be worse than instant. It’s absolutely analogous to well-kept real ale, and an overly warm can!

Apparently Coca Cola are very interested in the vending side of things and I think they want to use Costa branding on more products that they can sell in supermarkets. The first two Costa's have also opened in America at Coca Cola's HQ, so I think that may indicate some of their intentions.

That's a good comparison.

 

[C J Snarzell]

Greggs are another business that has branched out massively in recent years and they too could suffer the same fate as Costa Coffee.

They used to be a traditional high street only bakery but they have suddenly popped up in Airports, train stations, filling stations, motorway services and more recently they have drive thru type eateries.

The problem is that Greggs used to be quite a cheap competitive pie shop but their prices have gone up and they charge a small fortune now for a sandwich and a soft drink. Even a pastie or a pie is £3+ - which is a little steep.

I actually think their produce is a little over rated and I've never been a huge fan of them.

CJ

 

[Bletchleyite]

I actually think their produce is a little over rated and I've never been a huge fan of them.

They were never the thing of the moment with my parents, who preferred Liverpool locals Sayers (who I think are also behind Poundbakery, but I might be wrong there).

Is Costa suffering a fate? Being taken over by Coca Cola is surely an accolade. It's not like they were previously owned by some sort of family business - their previous owners were Whitbread. Also, a lot of Costas are franchises (whereas comparatively few Starbucks are) so the group can stand individual branches failing.

 

[Darandio]

Even a pastie or a pie is £3+ - which is a little steep.

Where on earth are you seeing a pasty or pie for £3+ at Greggs?

 

[FQTV]

Greggs are another business that has branched out massively in recent years and they too could suffer the same fate as Costa Coffee.

They used to be a traditional high street only bakery but they have suddenly popped up in Airports, train stations, filling stations, motorway services and more recently they have drive thru type eateries.

The problem is that Greggs used to be quite a cheap competitive pie shop but their prices have gone up and they charge a small fortune now for a sandwich and a soft drink. Even a pastie or a pie is £3+ - which is a little steep.

I actually think their produce is a little over rated and I've never been a huge fan of them.

CJ

Once again, this is completely the wrong end of the stick. Look at Greggs business in detail; look at the structure, look at the customer profile.

Apparently Coca Cola are very interested in the vending side of things and I think they want to use Costa branding on more products that they can sell in supermarkets. The first two Costa's have also opened in America at Coca Cola's HQ, so I think that may indicate some of their intentions.

That's a good comparison.

They’re also interested in the ‘chilled product’, which basically means cans, which Costa hasn’t hitherto concentrated on. Coca-Cola see this as a big opportunity, particularly in Asia, apparently.

 

[C J Snarzell]

They were never the thing of the moment with my parents, who preferred Liverpool locals Sayers (who I think are also behind Poundbakery, but I might be wrong there).

The Poundbakery is very hit & miss - their sandwiches & cakes are spot on, but I'm not keen on their hot savoury food - which at 2 for £1 are not going to be best ever.

Are Hampsons and Sayers still going? I know the PB took over alot of their outlets a few years ago.

CJ

 

[Bletchleyite]

The Poundbakery is very hit & miss - their sandwiches & cakes are spot on, but I'm not keen on their hot savoury food - which at 2 for £1 are not going to be best ever.

Are Hampsons and Sayers still going? I know the PB took over alot of their outlets a few years ago

https://www.sayersthebakers.co.uk/Store-List/50/ seems to suggest so.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Greggs are another business that has branched out massively in recent years and they too could suffer the same fate as Costa Coffee.

As others have said, Coca-Cola bought Costa Coffee last year for almost £4bn. Costa are not going anywhere.

Coffee shops exist in the same sphere as pubs. A leisure activity as much as a beverage. You're not paying £3 for a coffee, it is for the whole social experience. Just as you pay £3 for a pint of beer even though you can get a tin at home for a fraction of the price.

Greggs haven't expanded particularly rapidly and, crucially, they've not expanded with debt. They will also be fine.

 

[37424]

Greggs are another business that has branched out massively in recent years and they too could suffer the same fate as Costa Coffee.

They used to be a traditional high street only bakery but they have suddenly popped up in Airports, train stations, filling stations, motorway services and more recently they have drive thru type eateries.

The problem is that Greggs used to be quite a cheap competitive pie shop but their prices have gone up and they charge a small fortune now for a sandwich and a soft drink. Even a pastie or a pie is £3+ - which is a little steep.

I actually think their produce is a little over rated and I've never been a huge fan of them.

CJ

I doubt it a substancial amount of Greggs customer base certainly where I live is white van man so I think they will be fine, and they seemed to have expended a fair bit in the past few I suspect at expense of a number of Independent Cafe's and Sandwich Shops, their prices are quite reasonable on some things like a Bacon Roll or Pasty + Drink, except at the motorway ones where they jack up the price, but your still likely to get a Bacon Roll and a Coffee for the price of a Costa Coffee well before the virus at least I haven't been in since as yet.

 

[C J Snarzell]

I doubt it a substancial amount of Greggs customer base certainly where I live is white van man so I think they will be fine, and they seemed to have expended a fair bit in the past few I suspect at expense of a number of Independent Cafe's and Sandwich Shops, their prices are quite reasonable on some things like a Bacon Roll or Pasty + Drink, except at the motorway ones where they jack up the price, but your still likely to get a Bacon Roll and a Coffee for the price of a Costa Coffee well before the virus at least I haven't been in since as yet.

Where on earth are you seeing a pasty or pie for £3+ at Greggs?

It was in a motorway service Greggs where I paid £3.20 for a steak pie which is probably around £2 at a high street Greggs.

I have found motorway service shops & eateries operate on their own rules & pricing.

I recently went to the McDonald's on the M56 Helsby services in Cheshire and they refused to accept the loyalty cards that you collect on the coffee cups - 6 x stickers gets a complementary brew.

CJ

 

[Iskra]

It was in a motorway service Greggs where I paid £3.20 for a steak pie which is probably around £2 at a high street Greggs.

I have found motorway service shops & eateries operate on their own rules & pricing.

I recently went to the McDonald's on the M56 Helsby services in Cheshire and they refused to accept the loyalty cards that you collect on the coffee cups - 6 x stickers gets a complementary brew.

CJ

That’s because these are all franchises and not owned by the parent brand.

 

[SteveM70]

That’s because these are all franchises and not owned by the parent brand.

There are about 1,300 McDonalds in the UK of which about 1,100 are franchises, so that’s not the reason they don’t accept the loyalty cards. It’s because like everything else in a service station, customers are ripped off

 

[Bletchleyite]

There are about 1,300 McDonalds in the UK of which about 1,100 are franchises, so that’s not the reason they don’t accept the loyalty cards. It’s because like everything else in a service station, customers are ripped off

I think you mean "charged extra to cover the significant cost of maintaining 24 hour service on a large and complex site". They receive no subsidy for doing so, and probably over 50% of their customers (I'd imagine a fair way higher than that) are only customers to the extent of parking up and using the toilets. That money has to come from somewhere. It's not like railway stations which also mark up but have the income stream of subsidy plus the majority of people who walk in doing so to make a paid-for train journey.

You could charge 50p for the toilets, or something, but I think people would rather the markup because you can always choose not to buy anything.

Notably, I don't think McDonalds is marked up because, in my understanding, standardised pricing across the UK is a mandatory part of the franchise contract, i.e. for a domestic UK McDs they won't let you charge anything other than the standard listed prices (though franchises can opt out of some promotions such as the coffee one you mention). I've long suspected this is why Burger King is much more common in such places (and at stations) because they don't have that rule.

 

[FQTV]

There are about 1,300 McDonalds in the UK of which about 1,100 are franchises, so that’s not the reason they don’t accept the loyalty cards. It’s because like everything else in a service station, customers are ripped off

Service stations are a particular type of franchise, though, and to a certain extent it makes sense that things like loyalty stamps aren’t supported, as there’s no local trade to be loyal.

Service station costs are also exponentially higher; base staff costs are way above high street locations, they’re often operating 24 hours a day, etc., etc.

I’ve never begrudged paying more to be able to get a decent cup of coffee in the middle of the night in the middle of nowhere.

 

[C J Snarzell]

I think you mean "charged extra to cover the significant cost of maintaining 24 hour service on a large and complex site". They receive no subsidy for doing so, and probably over 50% of their customers (I'd imagine a fair way higher than that) are only customers to the extent of parking up and using the toilets. That money has to come from somewhere. It's not like railway stations which also mark up but have the income stream of subsidy plus the majority of people who walk in doing so to make a paid-for train journey.

You could charge 50p for the toilets, or something, but I think people would rather the markup because you can always choose not to buy anything.

Notably, I don't think McDonalds is marked up because, in my understanding, standardised pricing across the UK is a mandatory part of the franchise contract, i.e. for a domestic UK McDs they won't let you charge anything other than the standard listed prices (though franchises can opt out of some promotions such as the coffee one you mention). I've long suspected this is why Burger King is much more common in such places (and at stations) because they don't have that rule.

The McDonald's in Leeds train station is very pendantic about the loyalty cards.

McDs tend to change the design of their drinking cups - they've had until recently a grey card off a black cup but that has now changed to a yellow one. They then have the fancy designs at Christmas and Easter so you can easily end up with an assortment of coloured loyalty cards in your wallet that are still valid until the end of the year.

Unfortunately, the Leeds McDs will only accept the yellow ones and the girl who served me even checked the expire dates on all the little stickers stuck to the card which I thought was a little OTT.

CJ

 

[johntea]

I suspect the reason they’ve been told to inspect them so carefully is certain auction sites allow the sale of sheets of knockoff stickers!

Eventually I reckon they’ll be switching to their app entirely for the scheme instead, they already have it in place but the stickers remain for now

 

[skyhigh]

The McDonald's in Leeds train station is very pendantic about the loyalty cards.

McDs tend to change the design of their drinking cups - they've had until recently a grey card off a black cup but that has now changed to a yellow one. They then have the fancy designs at Christmas and Easter so you can easily end up with an assortment of coloured loyalty cards in your wallet that are still valid until the end of the year.

Unfortunately, the Leeds McDs will only accept the yellow ones and the girl who served me even checked the expire dates on all the little stickers stuck to the card which I thought was a little OTT.

CJ

I frequently use the McDonalds in Leeds station and I've never, ever had this issue - whatever colour card, they've accepted it fine with a brief glance to make sure there's 6 stickers. I've transferred stickers from a grey card to a yellow one so that I have a full card instead of 2 cards with 6 stickers total on without any issue. At one point they were even handing out full cards with 6 stickers on if you filled out the online survey for the branch with favourable answers. Maybe they think you look dodgy?

 

[Tetchytyke]

Notably, I don't think McDonalds is marked up because, in my understanding, standardised pricing across the UK is a mandatory part of the franchise contract, i.e. for a domestic UK McDs they won't let you charge anything other than the standard listed prices

McDonald's have more variation in prices than they used to, but certainly not to Burger King standards.

It’s because like everything else in a service station, customers are ripped off

Service stations have significantly higher overheads than the high street, including staff costs and rental fees to be allowed to operate the site, and so prices will reflect that.

It was in a motorway service Greggs where I paid £3.20 for a steak pie which is probably around £2 at a high street Greggs.

That's still good value, certainly compared to other pasty shops in service areas which will charge six quid for a pasty that isn'tany nicer.

 

[thejuggler]

I remember being in Leicester Square McDonalads a few years ago. As we ordered it turned 11pm and the prices boards were all flipped to show higher prices.

 

[route101]

Greggs is stodge , fills a hole. Kind of the safe option but its not quality.

 

[C J Snarzell]

I frequently use the McDonalds in Leeds station and I've never, ever had this issue - whatever colour card, they've accepted it fine with a brief glance to make sure there's 6 stickers. I've transferred stickers from a grey card to a yellow one so that I have a full card instead of 2 cards with 6 stickers total on without any issue. At one point they were even handing out full cards with 6 stickers on if you filled out the online survey for the branch with favourable answers. Maybe they think you look dodgy?

I am aware that e-bay sellers are flogging sheets of loyalty stickers - maybe the Leeds McD's are simply being cautious. Another thing I see McD's do is strick a highlighter pen across any cash notes you give them. Not quite sure what that is all about.

CJ

 

[pdq]

Slightly OT (the opposite in fact)... Was in Huddersfield today and the only shop with any kind of queue was Primark*. It was the same at White Rose and Leeds in the last few weeks. Either their COVID-19 restrictions are particularly strict or they are doing something right and getting the shoppers in. Could their lack of an online shop possibly be part of this?

*to be fair, the local independent school uniform shop also had a queue, but that's more to do with last minute shopping as Kirklees schools go back next week.

 

[skyhigh]

I am aware that e-bay sellers are flogging sheets of loyalty stickers - maybe the Leeds McD's are simply being cautious. Another thing I see McD's do is strick a highlighter pen across any cash notes you give them. Not quite sure what that is all about.

CJ

It's not something like this is it? https://www.whsmith.co.uk/products/...-highlighter-pen-clear-ink/4004675002785.html

This money-checker pen detects counterfeit bank notes immediately. Make a small mark on suspect bank note: Clear or light mark= Note genuine, Grey or brown mark= note suspect. It works on almost all currencies worldwide except Canadian, Australian, and New Zealand Dollars. The ink is non-toxic. On genuine bank notes the marks will disappear.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Slightly OT (the opposite in fact)... Was in Huddersfield today and the only shop with any kind of queue was Primark*. It was the same at White Rose and Leeds in the last few weeks. Either their COVID-19 restrictions are particularly strict or they are doing something right and getting the shoppers in.

The latter. I was in Manchester at the start of August and the Arndale wasn't as full as it should be at that time of day and year. Queues in Primark though.

 

[cactustwirly]

Is the coffee from a customer-operated Costa machine significantly different to that from a barista-operated one?

Definitely, it's night and day difference.
The machines use UHT milk, which does alter the taste, plus a fresh coffee from a proper expresso machine (not a bean to cup machine some places use, a proper manual machine) tastes really good.

I think Costa are ok, but I think Starbucks and Nero do better coffee, although I definitely prefer artisan places like Coffee#1 and 200 degrees.

 

[xotGD]

Definitely, it's night and day difference.
The machines use UHT milk, which does alter the taste, plus a fresh coffee from a proper expresso machine (not a bean to cup machine some places use, a proper manual machine) tastes really good.

I think Costa are ok, but I think Starbucks and Nero do better coffee, although I definitely prefer artisan places like Coffee#1 and 200 degrees.

The best coffee I've had in recent times has been from the cafe on Middlesbrough railway station. I hope they've survived.

Returning to topic, Jigsaw are closing 13 more stores with the loss of 100 jobs.

 

[FQTV]

Definitely, it's night and day difference.
The machines use UHT milk, which does alter the taste, plus a fresh coffee from a proper expresso machine (not a bean to cup machine some places use, a proper manual machine) tastes really good.

I think Costa are ok, but I think Starbucks and Nero do better coffee, although I definitely prefer artisan places like Coffee#1 and 200 degrees.

Costa Express machines use fresh semi-skimmed milk and the same beans as the shops do. It’s a fundamental part of the Express contract.

Differences between Starbucks, Nero, Costa, Esquires et al are purely down to personal preference, machine maintenance and operator skill.

This is all largely irrelevant to whether any, some or all of these companies will disappear soon, however.

 

[SteveM70]

Costa Express machines use fresh semi-skimmed milk and the same beans as the shops do. It’s a fundamental part of the Express contract.

Yes. At the Coop we have to have a specific stock correction code for the milk that goes from the normal fridges into the Costa machines

 

[C J Snarzell]

The Primark in my town always has a queue outside. I've never really rated Primark clothing - it's very cheap and tatty.

It's the type of place you go just to fill a holiday suitcase - cheap T-shirts, shorts, flip-flops. Then when stuff gets soiled or ripped, you simply bin it.

I wore a pair of Primark shorts once in Spain and I accidentally tore the pocket when I caught it on something. The fabric was just as easy to tear as if I was wearing shorts made of newspaper!

CJ