Driving cab door left open

[trainophile]

Won’t give too much detail but surely this would be a tea and biscuits matter if the controllers found out? Or isn’t it considered that serious? Presumably it is immobilised at a terminus?

Train is on a 40 minute turnaround at New Street. No staff around.

 

[bengley]

Could have been opened by a passenger pulling the door release. Most of the time the door release handles aren't locked - they certainly weren't at my prevous TOC which had trains with the same style of door release.

Either way it's not that big a deal and certainly not something I'd pursue beyond just advising platform staff, or even just pushing it shut myself.

 

[trainophile]

Okay that’s fine, I just wondered as they are usually so diligent about checking when they leave a train unattended. Of course inbound this would have been the guard‘s end!

 

[dk1]

It's no big deal.

 

[Rich McLean]

The cab would be dead, it wouldn't be going anywhere

 

[L401CJF]

Merseyrail staff quite often leave the interior cab door open at the terminus, a normal sight on Merseyside.

 

[trainophile]

Merseyrail staff quite often leave the interior cab door open at the terminus, a normal sight on Merseyside.

But that would be when the passenger doors are locked shut wouldn't it?

 

[Bletchleyite]

But that would be when the passenger doors are locked shut wouldn't it?

No. Merseyrail units don't normally get locked up at termini, the turnaround is too short to bother.

 

[FordFocus]

Driver and guard can leave them open when changing ends. It's common to see it open a few inches as courtesy, saves bending down to release it.

If it's been open for 40 mins then staff have probably done it out of habit or didn't realise the other was leaving the unit for another train/PNB/food/booking off.

 

[peteb]

Often see fast freight with drivers doors wide open in the summer, but I guess the uk loco design means driver can't fall out, unlike a modern unit!

 

[Qwerty133]

Often see fast freight with drivers doors wide open in the summer, but I guess the uk loco design means driver can't fall out, unlike a modern unit!

The other bigger issue with the cab doors remaining open on many (but not all) modern units when in motion which isn't present on freight locos is that the doors open outwards and are therefore out of gauge.

 

[43066]

Often see fast freight with drivers doors wide open in the summer, but I guess the uk loco design means driver can't fall out, unlike a modern unit!

There are modern units that can be driven with the cab doors open - 22xs, for example.

 

[Geeves]

Pretty sure that while it can be done, its not going to be looked very fondly upon especially in these times where an entire investigation is launched into a 150/1 going to the shed empty with a door open at the rear. The 22x would definitely go down as door open in traffic if spotted.

 

[LowLevel]

Pretty sure that while it can be done, its not going to be looked very fondly upon especially in these times where an entire investigation is launched into a 150/1 going to the shed empty with a door open at the rear. The 22x would definitely go down as door open in traffic if spotted.

It's been a standard feature on the MML since year dot, HSTs and 222s are regularly seen with the front cab doors open in summer (and occasionally in winter). Same as 66s with their external doors often open. No one cares as long as it is only the front cab.

 

[Geeves]

They must have a more relaxed management style than Northern I imagine then.

 

[43066]

The 22x would definitely go down as door open in traffic if spotted.

Definitely not the case.

 

[LowLevel]

They must have a more relaxed management style than Northern I imagine then.

I can see why they'd be bothered with a 150/1. On a 222 or HST the door is in the cab and if the driver is sitting down they're not going to fall out of it, and unless they're daft they're going to be stopped before moving around it.

On a 150/1 the door is in a separate unattended vestibule meaning the guard could enter the vestibule at 75 mph to find said door swinging around which is a much less satisfactory state of affairs. I know it used to be standard practice to run in and out of platforms with the door open but you had it in hand and were in control of it then.

 

[Geeves]

Thats fair enough and yeah I agree its going to be hard to fall out of your own train! The majority of these 150 door incidents are coming from or going to the depot so only the driver on. Still causes the management to lose their heads!

 

[43066]

and unless they're daft they're going to be stopped before moving around it.

Indeed.

In fact I endured a rather noisy (and chilly!) 65 miles earlier this evening with an improperly closed cab door. The wind noise was something else, but I couldn’t safely adjust it until stopping, so just had to lump it!

Thats fair enough and yeah I agree its going to be hard to fall out of your own train!

I wonder if anyone has ever managed to do that .

 

[Mintona]

Alex Holden did.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I can see why they'd be bothered with a 150/1. On a 222 or HST the door is in the cab and if the driver is sitting down they're not going to fall out of it, and unless they're daft they're going to be stopped before moving around it.

On a 150/1 the door is in a separate unattended vestibule meaning the guard could enter the vestibule at 75 mph to find said door swinging around which is a much less satisfactory state of affairs. I know it used to be standard practice to run in and out of platforms with the door open but you had it in hand and were in control of it then.

Also Northern has had a "falling out" incident in which a guard who was a regular poster on uk.railway was sadly killed. Was a good while ago now but the incident was well-documented.

 

[bramling]

I wonder if anyone has ever managed to do that .

It's happened on LU. Most LU stocks can be driven with the cab doors open, which although in most cases requires cutting out an interlock, is sort of allowed (it's more of a case of blind eye territory rather than explicitly permitted, but it keeps people happy in summer). Some years ago an instructor and trainee were in a cab together with one or both doors open, and the instructor was discussing the finer points of a vasectomy, which resulted in the trainee passing out and falling out of the door - fortunately without injury.

Whilst it may sound like an urban legend, it's definitely a true story!

 

[Efini92]

They must have a more relaxed management style than Northern I imagine then.

Northern make a mountain out of a mole hill.

 

[L401CJF]

It's happened on LU. Most LU stocks can be driven with the cab doors open, which although in most cases requires cutting out an interlock, is sort of allowed (it's more of a case of blind eye territory rather than explicitly permitted, but it keeps people happy in summer). Some years ago an instructor and trainee were in a cab together with one or both doors open, and the instructor was discussing the finer points of a vasectomy, which resulted in the trainee passing out and falling out of the door - fortunately without injury.

Whilst it may sound like an urban legend, it's definitely a true story!

A common practice on the Berlin U Bahn too but not sure if its strictly permitted or not.

But that would be when the passenger doors are locked shut wouldn't it?

As said by @Bletchleyite , generally not, they have 20min plus turn around of a night and the passenger doors stay open the whole time. Even late at night with bigger dropback its not uncommon to see the cab doors open while the crew have gone into the station building for a brew! That said, I've never seen anybody ever go in the cabs when they're left open, so presumably isn't seen as a problem.

 

[trainophile]

A common practice on the Berlin U Bahn too but not sure if its strictly permitted or not.


As said by @Bletchleyite , generally not, they have 20min plus turn around of a night and the passenger doors stay open the whole time. Even late at night with bigger dropback its not uncommon to see the cab doors open while the crew have gone into the station building for a brew! That said, I've never seen anybody ever go in the cabs when they're left open, so presumably isn't seen as a problem.

During coronavirus in the summer Merseyrail were keeping the doors locked at Southport until a couple of minutes before departure time. No idea what the reason was, maybe in case of last minute platform/unit alterations, or perhaps just to enforce the policy that nobody should be travelling anyway unless it was essential!

 

[L401CJF]

During coronavirus in the summer Merseyrail were keeping the doors locked at Southport until a couple of minutes before departure time. No idea what the reason was, maybe in case of last minute platform/unit alterations, or perhaps just to enforce the policy that nobody should be travelling anyway unless it was essential!

Strange! During the lock lockdown I was on a 6 car service home from work, the cab door on one of the middle cabs wasn't locked and was wide open for the whole journey. The drivers compartment was locked of course. Seen this a few times now.

 

[43066]

It's happened on LU. Most LU stocks can be driven with the cab doors open, which although in most cases requires cutting out an interlock, is sort of allowed (it's more of a case of blind eye territory rather than explicitly permitted, but it keeps people happy in summer). Some years ago an instructor and trainee were in a cab together with one or both doors open, and the instructor was discussing the finer points of a vasectomy, which resulted in the trainee passing out and falling out of the door - fortunately without injury.

Whilst it may sound like an urban legend, it's definitely a true story!

Ouch (literally)!

I had understood the reason ‘67 stock didn’t have external cab doors was because the design was modified, after a driver managed to get himself left behind by his own train, which promptly drove itself to the next station on ATO.

No idea whether there is any truth in that.

 

[peakNed]

Often see fast freight with drivers doors wide open in the summer, but I guess the uk loco design means driver can't fall out, unlike a modern unit!

On 66s it's a combination of knackered door catches, drivers not being all that arsed about shutting them, and in summer keeping them open for extra ventilation.
Also as you say, bit difficult for freight drivers to fall out of open cab doors...

 

[matchmaker]

Many years ago when I was a volunteer on the Severn Valley, on a hot day you hoped your coaches were BR Mk 1, rather than LMS or GWR. The reason? On MK1s one of the guards doors opened inwards, so that you could stand beside it and get a nice cooling breeze. All the doors on LMS and GWR stock opened outwards.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I wonder if anyone has ever managed to do that .

That bloke who used to be in East-17 somehow managed to run himself over with his own car...