Car insurance: Difference between homemaker and unemployed

[radamfi]

Car insurance quotes give you options of homemaker and unemployed for your occupation. It is recommended by various websites to avoid using "unemployed" because it substantially increases your premium, but under what circumstances are you obliged to state "unemployed"?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Car insurance quotes give you options of homemaker and unemployed for your occupation. It is recommended by various websites to avoid using "unemployed" because it substantially increases your premium, but under what circumstances are you obliged to state "unemployed"?

One big giveaway would be that you were claiming Universal Credit for reasons of unemployment (i.e. would previously have been on the dole), or that you are actively seeking employment and have been doing since your previous employment ended.

Don't lie to insurance companies; it will come back and bite you on the backside later.

 

[glasgowniteowl]

I always think it's funny when people lie and say they have the car in a garage thinking that is actually cheaper, when in fact cheapest place to park is actually generally on the street

Garages are a greater risk for damages parking the car, and on a drive is a higher risk for theft as easier to identify what house the keys are in

 

[radamfi]

One big giveaway would be that you were claiming Universal Credit for reasons of unemployment (i.e. would previously have been on the dole), or that you are actively seeking employment and have been doing since your previous employment ended.

Don't lie to insurance companies; it will come back and bite you on the backside later.

What if you quit your job, or have too much savings to claim benefits? What is the definition of "actively seeking employment"?

 

[Gloster]

cheapest place to park is actually generally on the street

Not always. When I had a vehicle I was told that I was better off parked on the drive as my road is a bit of a rat-run. Admittedly, this was said by the insurance brokers, and they rank only just above estate agents in my opinion.

 

[Bletchleyite]

What if you quit your job, or have too much savings to claim benefits? What is the definition of "actively seeking employment"?

I think, as is often the case, we're diving into technicalities in a way that isn't really necessary.

I think most people know full well whether they are a full time homemaker, e.g. looking after children at home and the likes with no intention of seeking work and funding available (e.g. through savings or a partner's job) to provide for them, or they are between jobs with a full intention of getting another as soon as is reasonably practicable, even if, for example, they are taking a short break for health reasons or can't find a suitable job immediately. The number of people who don't fall into one of those two camps is going to be very, very small indeed, and if you do just answer as honestly and as reasonably as you can. Insurance is about a contract of good faith. And yes, I know some insurance companies don't behave that way sometimes!

 

[radamfi]

I think, as is often the case, we're diving into technicalities in a way that isn't really necessary.

I think most people know full well whether they are a full time homemaker, e.g. looking after children at home and the likes with no intention of seeking work and funding available (e.g. through savings or a partner's job) to provide for them, or they are between jobs with a full intention of getting another as soon as is reasonably practicable, even if, for example, they are taking a short break for health reasons or can't find a suitable job immediately. The number of people who don't fall into one of those two camps is going to be very, very small indeed, and if you do just answer as honestly and as reasonably as you can. Insurance is about a contract of good faith. And yes, I know some insurance companies don't behave that way sometimes!

Suppose you don't apply for any jobs for a year, but then you see a job that you might fancy. It is a bit of a long shot but it would be cool if it came off. Are you supposed to tell the insurance company at that point that you are now unemployed?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Suppose you don't apply for any jobs for a year, but then you see a job that you might fancy. It is a bit of a long shot but it would be cool if it came off. Are you supposed to tell the insurance company at that point that you are now unemployed?

Are you still a homemaker? That is, are you still spending your full day managing a home, looking after the kids, helping with your Granny's shopping or whatever? If so, I'd say you are still a homemaker until you "quit" that job to start the new one. Are you spending the day applying for jobs, watching telly or posting on here? Then you're clearly not homemaking. Do you need to put other arrangements in place for some things when you take the job? Again, if not you're not really homemaking.

I really think you're reading too much into it, or looking for a way to define something that isn't being a genuine homemaker as being it in order to select it when it isn't true, which is at best bad faith and at worst insurance fraud.

"Homemaker" is just a politically correct term for "housewife" or "house husband" - using one of those as a test is probably going to define it for most. Single people living alone will pretty much never fit the description, and with 2020s labour saving devices and the likes you're really pushing it as a couple unless you have kids. If you have a cleaner and a childminder, you pretty much by definition don't fit the description.

 

[radamfi]

Are you still a homemaker? That is, are you still spending your full day managing a home, looking after the kids, helping with your Granny's shopping or whatever? If so, I'd say you are still a homemaker until you "quit" that job to start the new one. Are you spending the day applying for jobs, watching telly or posting on here? Then you're clearly not homemaking. Do you need to put other arrangements in place for some things when you take the job? Again, if not you're not really homemaking.

I really think you're reading too much into it, or looking for a way to define something that isn't being a genuine homemaker as being it in order to select it when it isn't true, which is at best bad faith and at worst insurance fraud.

"Homemaker" is just a politically correct term for "housewife" or "house husband" - using one of those as a test is probably going to define it for most. Single people living alone will pretty much never fit the description, and with 2020s labour saving devices and the likes you're really pushing it as a couple unless you have kids.

So if you are living by yourself and have plenty of savings so you don't need to work for the foreseeable future you have to be "unemployed"? That can't be right. Arguably, putting "unemployed" would be fraud as you are not claiming benefits or looking for work.

 

[LMS 4F]

One big giveaway would be that you were claiming Universal Credit for reasons of unemployment (i.e. would previously have been on the dole), or that you are actively seeking employment and have been doing since your previous employment ended.

Don't lie to insurance companies; it will come back and bite you on the backside later.

It is an offence to make a false declaration to obtain motor insurance.

 

[radamfi]

It is an offence to make a false declaration to obtain motor insurance.

It would be a lot easier if they didn't ask ambiguous questions. Why don't they say, "are you looking for more than x jobs per day?" That is an objective question. "Unemployed" is open to interpretation.

Similarly with mileage. They ask you estimate your mileage, but a year later then can say that you were way out and then you end up going to jail for fraud. Even if you overestimate "to be safe", you are still lying in their eyes.

 

[2392]

I know my current insurer, has "private income" as an option listed. Which allows you the the option of not working, though how that'll affect any quote, don't know. As well as the usual list employed, unemployed, homemaker etc.......

 

[radamfi]

I know my current insurer, has "private income" as an option listed. Which allows you the the option of not working, though how that'll affect any quote, don't know. As well as the usual list employed, unemployed, homemaker etc.......

Would you mind disclosing the insurer? I might even cancel my current insurance and go with your company so I don't have to worry about this question.

 

[2392]

Would you mind disclosing the insurer? I might even cancel my current insurance and go with your company so I don't have to worry about this question.

It's through Hastings Direct.

 

[radamfi]

It's through Hastings Direct.

Thanks

 

[Bletchleyite]

So if you are living by yourself and have plenty of savings so you don't need to work for the foreseeable future you have to be "unemployed"? That can't be right. Arguably, putting "unemployed" would be fraud as you are not claiming benefits or looking for work.

I'd say that was unemployed, though by choice in that case.

You're not a "homemaker" if you sit at home watching TV and drinking beer. It's quite clear what it means. As I said, use the older term "housewife" or "house husband" instead to make sense of it - the description you give is definitely not that, it's someone choosing not to work.

Do you spend most of the day shopping, cleaning, cooking, repairing clothes, ferrying your kids around, whatever, and receive no formal wage for doing so? Then you're a homemaker. Do you do that, but for someone elderly or infirm rather than your own household? Then you're an informal carer, though in reality if you do both they probably won't care which of the two you pick. Do you sit around watching TV and drinking beer, and every other Saturday run the Hoover round as it's getting a bit disgusting? That's an unemployed single bloke.

Above a certain age I suppose it could be "retired", but only if at that point you genuinely intended (regardless of any change of mind later) not to return to full time work.

Just be honest. This sort of thing is only a problem if you're trying to find ways around stuff.

That said, there are examples where it can cause some genuine confusion. Is a communal parking area a driveway or on-street, for example (most insurers only offer three options - driveway, on-street or garage - though I've seen the odd one that has "residents' parking area" which is a better fit). Driveway is often marked up if it's a nice car, because you can easily see which house to break into to nick the keys.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Nov 2020 ==

It would be a lot easier if they didn't ask ambiguous questions. Why don't they say, "are you looking for more than x jobs per day?" That is an objective question. "Unemployed" is open to interpretation.

It only is if you are trying to find ways to get away with paying less by making a declaration that is false but not false enough to be provably so.

Similarly with mileage. They ask you estimate your mileage, but a year later then can say that you were way out and then you end up going to jail for fraud. Even if you overestimate "to be safe", you are still lying in their eyes.

I've never heard of an insurer who cared if you gave too high a mileage, because that is a simple case of the higher you go the more it costs, because the more you drive the more you are likely to crash on simple probabilities. I seem to recall one usual breakpoint being 7500 miles, but I forget the others - have a play with a quote site and you'll see it.

If you look like you're going to go over because you genuinely underestimated, you're meant to make a change to the policy. Which of course you'll have to pay for, but you would if you put the higher figure on at the start, give or take an admin fee. So it's not really much different in reality to buying an Off Peak ticket, then realising you really wanted an Anytime, so going and excessing it.

 

[Dai Corner]

Statisticians would refer to you as 'economically inactive'. I've no idea whether insurance companies recognise the term though.

Economic inactivity - Office for National Statistics

People not in employment who have not been seeking work within the last 4 weeks and/or are unable to start work within the next 2 weeks.

www.ons.gov.uk

 

[radamfi]

I've never heard of an insurer who cared if you gave too high a mileage, because that is a simple case of the higher you go the more it costs, because the more you drive the more you are likely to crash on simple probabilities.

You may never have heard of it, but where does it actually say you are allowed to overestimate the mileage? Sounds logical, but I'd like to see it written down.

 

[Snow1964]

You may never have heard of it, but where does it actually say you are allowed to overestimate the mileage? Sounds logical, but I'd like to see it written down.

Although this is going off topic, for many their annual mileage is on a public database (use MOT checker for your car registration). Therefore insurance companies can check if you are being realistic if you claim.

 

[2392]

When I started looking for insurance as I was getting back on the road. I decided on 10,000 miles P.A. as something of a guess/estimate. As it stands the insurance quotes went for 8,000, which is/was more accurate even before the current pandemic cutting down on my driving. So as it stands I in all honesty do about 7,000 +/-. Having said that I'd hope they'd make an exception if one year I went over the proposed 8,000 miles............ Though taking a jaundice view with insurance companies; If you owe them they'll hound and hound you. But if they owe you they don't want to know..........

 

[radamfi]

Although this is going off topic, for many their annual mileage is on a public database (use MOT checker for your car registration). Therefore insurance companies can check if you are being realistic if you claim.

You can see the mileage on the last few MOTs by going online. Although that doesn't help you with a new car.

But what I mean is, where is it written down that you are allowed to overestimate your mileage?

 

[Bletchleyite]

You may never have heard of it, but where does it actually say you are allowed to overestimate the mileage? Sounds logical, but I'd like to see it written down.

You shouldn't deliberately do either. You should pick a figure that you believe is realistic. If you look like you're going to go way over it (e.g. you put 10K and you're at 9K 3 months in), you then need to make a change to your policy to increase it to what you now estimate it will be.

It is a contract of good faith, which means you need to be honest, reasonable, up front and declare everything you believe may be relevant. It doesn't work in the way you are suggesting, i.e. not everything is strictly written down in that way.

 

[radamfi]

You shouldn't deliberately do either. You should pick a figure that you believe is realistic. If you look like you're going to go way over it (e.g. you put 10K and you're at 9K 3 months in), you then need to make a change to your policy to increase it to what you now estimate it will be.

It is a contract of good faith, which means you need to be honest, reasonable, up front and declare everything you believe may be relevant. It doesn't work in the way you are suggesting, i.e. not everything is strictly written down in that way.

So if there is nothing written down there is room for ambiguity. Say you put down 25,000 miles to be safe and you drive 20,000. Is that OK? What about 18,000? What about 15,000? It is impossible to draw the line.

It is stupid for insurance to work that way as there is unnecessary ambiguity. A better system would be to tell them the mileage every so often so they can adjust your premium up or down as necessary. The current system just criminalises people. Then this creates unnecessary work for the Ombudsmen when there is a dispute.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It is stupid for insurance to work that way as there is unnecessary ambiguity. A better system would be to tell them the mileage every so often so they can adjust your premium up or down as necessary. The current system just criminalises people. Then this creates unnecessary work for the Ombudsmen when there is a dispute.

Does it?

How many people on here have had a dispute over that kind of thing, I wonder? I venture 0. Have you?

If you're reasonable, the system does work.

People end up in dispute with insurance companies, generally speaking, when they make a false declaration (either deliberately or due to failing to find out what they should declare), not one that was in good faith but was a bit off. There are exceptions, but not that commonly.

 

[radamfi]

Does it?

How many people on here have had a dispute over that kind of thing, I wonder? I venture 0. Have you?

If you're reasonable, the system does work.

People end up in dispute with insurance companies, generally speaking, when they make a false declaration (either deliberately or due to failing to find out what they should declare), not one that was in good faith but was a bit off. There are exceptions, but not that commonly.

I haven't had a dispute and I don't know anyone who has. But that is irrelevant. Even though there is probably a low risk, the penalty for things going wrong is life changing.

 

[Dai Corner]

I haven't had a dispute and I don't know anyone who has. But that is irrelevant. Even though there is probably a low risk, the penalty for things going wrong is life changing.

You can pay for your insurance by the mile if you want to.

By Miles - Car insurance you pay by the mile

Simple, straightforward car insurance for people that don't drive much. Your car’s covered by a fixed annual cost while it's parked, then you just pay for the miles you drive each month. Our app makes owning a car a whole lot easier too.

www.bymiles.co.uk

 

[radamfi]

You can pay for your insurance by the mile if you want to.

By Miles - Car insurance you pay by the mile

Simple, straightforward car insurance for people that don't drive much. Your car’s covered by a fixed annual cost while it's parked, then you just pay for the miles you drive each month. Our app makes owning a car a whole lot easier too.

www.bymiles.co.uk

I didn't know that. This should be compulsory for all vehicles.

 

[Dai Corner]

I didn't know that. This should be compulsory for all vehicles.

My current policy, based on an annual mileage of 5000, is considerably cheaper.

Going off-topic for a moment, I wish VED was mileage based.

 

[55002]

So if you are living by yourself and have plenty of savings so you don't need to work for the foreseeable future you have to be "unemployed"? That can't be right. Arguably, putting "unemployed" would be fraud as you are not claiming benefits or looking for work.

put Independent Means down.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I haven't had a dispute and I don't know anyone who has. But that is irrelevant. Even though there is probably a low risk, the penalty for things going wrong is life changing.

Risk assessment = risk x likelihood

You're missing the latter. Best not leave the house, as the risk is nonzero. You could even be killed making a cup of tea.

The system works reasonably well provided you act in good faith, i.e. answer the questions honestly, and not specifically in a way trying to minimise the premium on technicalities.