Have Wrights produced an electric double decker before now?
They have had a demonstrator. (pictured below)
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Have Wrights produced an electric double decker before now?
Arguably ADL took a wise move. The BYD platform was already proven and it saved them wasting money (at that time) developing their own chassis.It's interesting that ADL, with their greater technical resources have gone into partnership with BDL, whereas Wright and Optare are doing it by themselves
Not the case. Abellio is ultimately owned by the Dutch government, while bus building is a small part of the activities of Portuguese multi-national Grupo Salvador Caetano.Abellio will almost certainly be the lead customer for the Caetano double decker as I recall they have the same parent company
Yutong have produced a double decker electric bus for Singapore https://landtransportguru.net/yutong-e12dd/The reason Go Ahead London has ordered the Metrodecker for the 200 is that the BYD/ADL combo is too long to fit the route. Assuming they get delivered this side of 2022, as Optare/Switch need to up their game with deliveries, otherwise someone else will try and win orders off of their issues. I believe Caetano are looking towards to producing an electric decker if they can see a market for it.
The reason Go Ahead London has ordered the Metrodecker for the 200 is that the BYD/ADL combo is too long to fit the route.
Not the case. Abellio is ultimately owned by the Dutch government, while bus building is a small part of the activities of Portuguese multi-national Grupo Salvador Caetano.
I understand that makes the difference, albeit small.Yutong have produced a double decker electric bus for Singapore https://landtransportguru.net/yutong-e12dd/
The ADL bus is 10.9m long, the Optare 10.5m long; does that make all the difference?
Most of the extra 40CM is in the wheelbase so yes it would make quite a difference to the turning circle.The ADL bus is 10.9m long, the Optare 10.5m long; does that make all the difference?
All of it is iirc, overhangs are the same on all chassis lengths.Most of the extra 40CM is in the wheelbase so yes it would make quite a difference to the turning circle.
The overhangs will be different on the BYD/ADL E400s when compared to the Optare Metrodecker as they're from different manufacturers. But it isn't anything significant. I think you've perhaps confused my post as comparing different lengths of the same bus?All of it is iirc, overhangs are the same on all chassis lengths.
All of it is iirc, overhangs are the same on all chassis lengths.
Across the same type of bus, the overhang will be the same.The overhangs will be different on the BYD/ADL E400s when compared to the Optare Metrodecker as they're from different manufacturers. But it isn't anything significant. I think you've perhaps confused my post as comparing different lengths of the same bus?
We're talking about the Enviro 400.Except the Volvo B5LH - it has a massive overhang.
Indeed but were weren't talking about the same type of bus. We were talking about the BYD/ADL E400EV vs the Optare Metrodecker, in which case there will be a slight difference in overhangs albeit not significant.Across the same type of bus, the overhang will be the same.
We're talking about the Enviro 400.
We're talking about the Enviro 400.
Fuel cells are for hydrogen, I thinkThey have had a demonstrator. (pictured below)
I've thought with the BYD combo that ADL were looking for a quick entry to the electric market so needed a tried and tested chassis for it.
Fuel cells are for hydrogen, I think
Not any more from the sound of it.There's also some electric Streetlites running around Milton Keynes which were originally to prove on-road charging concepts.
It's the long wheelbase that's the issue on the ADL/BYD, a factor of the unusually short rear overhang combined with what is already a long bus. The wheelbase may well be longer than that found on a 12m bus such as the Citaro and it's this that has been found to be problematic on certain routes tested in London.Indeed but were weren't talking about the same type of bus. We were talking about the BYD/ADL E400EV vs the Optare Metrodecker, in which case there will be a slight difference in overhangs albeit not significant.
Judging by Lothian's experience I wouldn't take that as a recommendation. They've been laid up since lockdown and no certainty that they'll ever re enter service.Wrightbus built the Streetair single decker operated by Lothian.
There's also some electric Streetlites running around Milton Keynes which were originally to prove on-road charging concepts.
A strategy that was fine when electric buses were a niche product, but going forward they are becoming the norm now and a large part of ADLs business will have been from integral E200, E400 and E500sArguably ADL took a wise move. The BYD platform was already proven and it saved them wasting money (at that time) developing their own chassis.
ADLs philosophy has always been that "50% of an order is better than no order".
I agree, that's why i put in brackets "at that time" as while working with BYD made sense a few years ago, when it comes to the next generation of buses ADL need to be looking at a product that is fully their own.A strategy that was fine when electric buses were a niche product, but going forward they are becoming the norm now and a large part of ADLs business will have been from integral E200, E400 and E500s
Wright also suffer from that to an extent. If it's not an integral or volvo, they're not bodying it.I'm not sure ADL continuing along the "50% of an order is better than none" route is a bad thing at all. After all as Walter Alexander Coachbuilders they got to a fair size simply by bodying more or less any chassis you wanted.
Just look at what happened to East Lancs/Optare after they started refusing to body any more Scania and Volvo chassis orders with the Olympus, instead concentrating on their prototype integral Olympus. They handed a fair number of orders, especially of open tops, to MCV, Wrights and ADL on a plate.
It's the long wheelbase that's the issue on the ADL/BYD, a factor of the unusually short rear overhang combined with what is already a long bus. The wheelbase may well be longer than that found on a 12m bus such as the Citaro and it's this that has been found to be problematic on certain routes tested in London.
I think Wrightbus only ever built 16 electric busesWrightbus built the Streetair single decker operated by Lothian.
There's also some electric Streetlites running around Milton Keynes which were originally to prove on-road charging concepts.
I believe they were on a five year lease agreement, probably scrapped by nowNot any more from the sound of it.
www.miltonkeynes.co.uk/news/people/could-milton-keynes-be-britains-first-fully-electric-bus-town-1426117
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For the past five years, Milton Keynes has had eight electric buses operating here. They ran on Route 7, covering 15 miles between Wolverton and Bletchley and carrying an estimated 800,000 passengers a year.
The Arriva electric buses in MK were withdrawn last Autumn
But they were part of a five year trial which expired last year. The buses were withdrawn last October and replaced with normal vehicles because "it was time to move on", according to Arriva.
“
Agreed but the vast majority of operators order integral now so I'm not sure it's a contributing factor anymoreI'm not sure ADL continuing along the "50% of an order is better than none" route is a bad thing at all. After all as Walter Alexander Coachbuilders they got to a fair size simply by bodying more or less any chassis you wanted.
Just look at what happened to East Lancs/Optare after they started refusing to body any more Scania and Volvo chassis orders with the Olympus, instead concentrating on their prototype integral Olympus. They handed a fair number of orders, especially of open tops, to MCV, Wrights and ADL on a plate.
From what I can gather, they aren't bodying Volvo anymore either. But that isn't a bad thing as I mention above, the StreetDeck has vastly outperformed the B5TL and B5LH. While the last ADL bodied Scania and Volvo orders were over a year agoWright also suffer from that to an extent. If it's not an integral or volvo, they're not bodying it.
Makes sense, B5TL orders have been quite thin post 2017 and the B8RLE never picked up. Heavyweight single deckers are quite a niche market now and when it comes to the B8RLE it seems MCV have it quite tightly locked down in the UK, although some would say that the success of the Evora is more down to the fact it's the only real option... London are focusing on Battery Electrics so B5LH sales won't be what they once were a few years ago either.From what I can gather, they aren't bodying Volvo anymore either. But that isn't a bad thing as I mention above, the StreetDeck has vastly outperformed the B5TL and B5LH. While the last ADL bodied Scania and Volvo orders were over a year ago
Wrights did miss out to MCV on a lot of later B5LH work in London, I'm sure that hurt them financiallyMakes sense, B5TL orders have been quite thin post 2017 and the B8RLE never picked up. Heavyweight single deckers are quite a niche market now and when it comes to the B8RLE it seems MCV have it quite tightly locked down in the UK, although some would say that the success of the Evora is more down to the fact it's the only real option... London are focusing on Battery Electrics so B5LH sales won't be what they once were a few years ago either.
It's not that ADL should stop bodying other chassis, it's just that they have a significant integral/chassis business of their own, and uniquely have the heritage and experience from the Dennis side.I'm not sure ADL continuing along the "50% of an order is better than none" route is a bad thing at all. After all as Walter Alexander Coachbuilders they got to a fair size simply by bodying more or less any chassis you wanted.
Just look at what happened to East Lancs/Optare after they started refusing to body any more Scania and Volvo chassis orders with the Olympus, instead concentrating on their prototype integral Olympus. They handed a fair number of orders, especially of open tops, to MCV, Wrights and ADL on a plate.
Silly me, Lothian have ordered another batch of ADL bodied Volvos. Seems Lothian is the only costumer in that particular marketI believe they were on a five year lease agreement, probably scrapped by now
Agreed but the vast majority of operators order integral now so I'm not sure it's a contributing factor anymore
From what I can gather, they aren't bodying Volvo anymore either. But that isn't a bad thing as I mention above, the StreetDeck has vastly outperformed the B5TL and B5LH. While the last ADL bodied Scania and Volvo orders were over a year ago
Most of them had already been parked up out of use for months before covid happened.Judging by Lothian's experience I wouldn't take that as a recommendation. They've been laid up since lockdown and no certainty that they'll ever re enter service.