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Reports of people leaving London to escape Tier 4 restrictions.

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Jurg

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A Yorkshire Evening Post article with criticism of people leaving London to avoid Tier 4 restrictions. Fair enough, but the article is illustrated with the attached photo supposedly showing the crowds of people heading for Leeds.

Health secretary Matt Hancock told Sky's Sophy Ridge on Sunday that scenes of people leaving London in their droves were 'totally irresponsible'.
These photos and videos showed people leaving London and boarding a train to Leeds on Saturday evening, despite passengers on board realising that the train had been oversold and they were forced to abandon social distancing.
Mr Hancock said: "Especially in Tier 4 areas, everybody has to behave as if they might well have the virus.


My question is, are these people really waiting to travel from London to Leeds? If so what station are they using?
 

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Ianno87

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St Pancras. Which has 2-3 Leeds services each day to get HSTs back to Neville Hill. Most passengers however would not have been going further than Sheffield.
 

DB

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Nearly all will be going to Sheffield or stations south of that. For Leeds and Wakefield most would use LNER.

I have used the East Midlands trains many times over the years to get from Sheffield to Leeds, and they are nearly always very lightly loaded.
 

PG

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Perhaps this train, which left late and took extra minutes at Leicester, Chesterfield, and Sheffield, maybe due to the number of people:
Beat me too it! I'd doubt many people were going to Leeds on that service as it seems to have arrived a couple of minutes early in Leeds and then arrived 5 minutes early at
Neville Hill.
 

westv

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It reminds me of the photo the other day of hundreds of people outside Harrods. Why was St P so busy but nowhere else - well there were no photos of a rammmed Kings X or Euston or Waterloo.
 

nedchester

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Has it been established that it is actually ILLEGAL to travel to/from Tier 4 areas?

There is an important difference between "you should not travel" and "you must not travel"......
 

JonathanH

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Interesting choice of picture to illustrate the story here, noting that the picture of the 'Midland Pullman' and five BTP officers was at least taken at St Pancras.


208493


and also a video that I can't embed.

Tier 4: Extra police in London to crack down on non-essential travel
20 December 2020, 10:38 | Updated: 20 December 2020, 13:24

Following chaotic scenes at London's train stations, the government have announced extra British Transport Police officers will be deployed to crack down on non-essential travel.

Aside from a small number of exemptions, it is illegal to enter or leave a Tier 4 area, which covers 16 million people across London, the South East and East of England.

The government say these strict restrictions are needed to stop the spread of the faster-spreading mutant coronavirus strain.

In a statement on Sunday morning, Transport Secretary Grant Shapps said: “It is incredibly important that people follow the guidance, stay at home and do not attempt to travel.

"Our focus must be stopping the spread of this virus, protecting lives and our NHS.

“If you are in Tier 4, the law means you must stay at home and you cannot stay overnight away from home. Across the rest of the country, you must stay local."

Mr Shapps added: “Follow the guidance and please do not come to a station unless you are permitted to travel.

"Extra BTP officers are being deployed to ensure only those who need to take essential journeys can travel safely."

Ahead of the introduction of the new restrictions at midnight, Saturday evening saw chaotic scenes at major London train stations as people left the capital.

People were told that social distancing "will not be possible" due to the volume of travellers on board, and those that felt "uncomfortable" were advised not to stay on the train.

The RMT trade union, which represents transport workers, said "The scenes of overcrowding and chaos on rail services last night were a disgrace and must not be repeated.

"They reflect the shambolic approach of the Government that has been a hallmark of their management of the Covid pandemic.

"Our reps and officials have been reiterating the guidance to our members that they have a right to remove themselves to a place of safety and that enforcement of the new measures is a matter for the police."

However, the former head of the British Transport Police, Andy Trotter, told LBC's Swarbrick on Sunday he thinks the role of the police will be about "assisting" rather than "interrogating" people.

"If you think of how many people were travelling last night... it would be impossible for them to go checking everyone who was scrambling onto those trains," he explained, "It is the last thing they could possibly do.

"It is much more around assisting people and that goes for the police everywhere.

"It is about helping people through this, dealing with the very serious breaches of the law, but it is not about - in my opinion - trying to interrogate people as to the purpose of their journey."

Speaking on LBC on Sunday, Mayor of London Sadiq Khan said people should remember they may have Covid-19 “and not realise it”.

"You may have the virus, you may pass it on to an elderly relation at a time when the vaccine is being rolled out and so how are you gonna feel if you, God forbid, pass the virus on?"

The Mayor issued a plea to Londoners to "stay in London, try and follow the rules," reminding people "we have as many people with Covid now as we did at the peak in April”.

Meanwhile, the Christmas Transport Tsar, Sir Peter Hendy, said: “The message is clear – to combat this virus, you must follow the guidance and stay at home.

“At stations we will be deploying extra staff, announcements will make the law clear, and additional BTP officers are in place to ensure that only essential journeys take place.

“People considering driving should also stay at home or stay local. The new restrictions mean that people should not travel into or out of Tier 4 areas, and across the country you should stay local.

“You should play your part in tackling the spread of this virus.”
 
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Darandio

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The government announced new restrictions with just over 7 hours notice, many of these people are going home and in most cases probably earlier than planned.
 
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philosopher

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Has it been established that it is actually ILLEGAL to travel to/from Tier 4 areas?

There is an important difference between "you should not travel" and "you must not travel"......
From what I read of the legalisation, it is permitted for work, to visit support and childcare bubbles, for outdoor recreation and for some reasons.

The tragic thing is that for a large proportion of these travellers, e.g if there part of a support bubble they could have travelled on the 20th to 24th in any case.
 

Mojo

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Has it been established that it is actually ILLEGAL to travel to/from Tier 4 areas?

There is an important difference between "you should not travel" and "you must not travel"......
It isn’t. Comprehensive discussion on this topic in the thread about tiers. It is illegal to leave your home except for a number of reasons that are so broad pretty much includes everything other than seeing anyone you care for unless they live in a single adult household and aren’t in a linked household with anyone else.

Of course at the time these incidents happened this law did not apply.
 

bramling

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A Yorkshire Evening Post article with criticism of people leaving London to avoid Tier 4 restrictions. Fair enough, but the article is illustrated with the attached photo supposedly showing the crowds of people heading for Leeds.


My question is, are these people really waiting to travel from London to Leeds? If so what station are they using?

Given it was the last Saturday before Christmas as well as what would have been a major shopping day (especially with Boris having decided to close all the shops through November), I’m not sure this is quite the story it’s being made out to be. It does seem a bit quick for Boris to have made the announcement in the late afternoon and then suddenly all the hoards have put their life possessions in a suitcase and made a dash for St Pancras in time for 8 o clock.

Obviously one way or other the packed train wasn’t a desirable situation.

Interesting choice of picture to illustrate the story here, noting that the picture of the 'Midland Pullman' and five BTP officers was at least taken at St Pancras.


208493


and also a video that I can't embed.

Shades of March again. I suppose one slight consolation is whilst the BTP are busy doing this they’re being diverted away from mask inspections.
 

Domh245

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Why was St P so busy but nowhere else - well there were no photos of a rammmed Kings X or Euston or Waterloo.

I think other terminals were similarly busy, but St Pancras' shortage of concourse exaggerates the issue. There were definitely pictures of Waterloo being used this morning on stories about the exodus
 

Wilts Wanderer

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It does say that many trains were fully booked (to Covid limits) so perhaps NRE was offering the St Pancras-Leeds direct trains as the only available option, as the trains from Kings Cross would fill up first.
 

185143

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Could this be where compliance starts to break down? It's certainly a massive "2 fingers" to the restrictions.
 

johntea

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It's a bit like when they announce travel corridors closing with about a milliseconds notice, maybe if they had stopped fantasising about a 'normal Christmas' a few months earlier (bearing in mind this new strain was first noticed in SEPTEMBER) things could have been planned out better instead of leaving it until just before closing time on by far the busiest shopping day of the year to announce an immediate lockdown from midnight

The only real winner out of the whole situation is Amazon!
 

DB

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I think compliance actually broke down ages ago.

In a lot of situations it certainly did.

I do wonder whether the more enthusiastic Locktivists genuinely don't realise this, because they are hiding away at home and getting supermarket deliveries, and assuming that the majority are doing the same. Looking at the comments on Twitter articles does suggest that this is happening at least to some degree.
 

C J Snarzell

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The general consensus is - if you don't get out of London you may be trapped for sometime (months according to Matt Hancock this morning) so this is just natural human instinct or self preservation to get to safety and be with family and loved ones ASAP.

As I commented on a previous thread - there are bound to be some serious mental health issues developing in the coming weeks caused by loneliness and isolation caused by Tier 4. The rail commuters here are simply doing what's necessary to keep their own sanity which I can't criticise them for.

CJ
 

DB

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More government lies quoted in that LBS article (https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/london-tier-4-police-train-transport-non-essential-travel-kings-cross/)

In a statement on Sunday morning, Transport Secretary Grant Shapps said: “It is incredibly important that people follow the guidance, stay at home and do not attempt to travel.

"Our focus must be stopping the spread of this virus, protecting lives and our NHS.

“If you are in Tier 4, the law means you must stay at home and you cannot stay overnight away from home. Across the rest of the country, you must stay local."

It is not true that across the rest of the country you 'must stay local' - there are no travel restrictions, and the legal requirement is that you are bound by the tier rules of whichever is the higher of the tier you live in or the one you have travelled to.

I see that the protecting lives and the NHS catch-phrases are in regular use - no doubt the government's guidelines for covid press releases say that they must always be used!
 

Mag_seven

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It is not true that across the rest of the country you 'must stay local' - there are no travel restrictions, and the legal requirement is that you are bound by the tier rules of whichever is the higher of the tier you live in or the one you have travelled to.

The problem is when you come across a peaked capped jobsworth who believes that is the case. ;)
 

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Ianno87

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More government lies quoted in that LBS article (https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/london-tier-4-police-train-transport-non-essential-travel-kings-cross/)



It is not true that across the rest of the country you 'must stay local' - there are no travel restrictions, and the legal requirement is that you are bound by the tier rules of whichever is the higher of the tier you live in or the one you have travelled to.

I see that the protecting lives and the NHS catch-phrases are in regular use - no doubt the government's guidelines for covid press releases say that they must always be used!

Like everything, the *guidelines* are to stay local and reduce travel, but that is not the law.

We can debate until the cows come home about how appropriate, or not, it may be to actually do so.

My "rule" (as a Tier 2 resident), is to only stay within Tier 2 areas, but that is my own interpretation of what is "sensible".

Seeing as it was 2L into Derby but only 1L upon departure, I don't think that was the issue

The timetabled stop was a full 10 minutes - plenty of time to do a set swap without extra delay.
 
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