Why don't the UK TOCs have an "audio brand"?

[HSTEd]

Clearly no branding is "needed" at all in that sense, unbranded factory white trains still get you where you are going. But branding is a key part of marketing - so why not?

Honestly I would prefer all over grey.
There was a picture somewhere of a couple of new Class 66s in Ontario and they looked quite nice to be honest.

But a unified audio brand would be forbidden because it would weaken the zoo of brands we have now.
People might get some sort of crazy idea that the railway should be a cohesive whole, and we can't have that.

 

[Clip]

You get the train to where you want to go, regardless of what colour it is or what name is on the side.

That's not strictly true though is it?

How many operators go from London to Glasgow and Edinburgh?

Stagecoach, Wellglade, Go-Ahead and Transdev, certainly, in my view (no particular order).

I'm no bus man so will take your word for it but I've only heard of 3 of them

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm no bus man so will take your word for it but I've only heard of 3 of them

Wellglade is the "obscure" one and is the operator of Trentbarton.

 

[StephenHunter]

How many operators go from London to Glasgow and Edinburgh?

Three... Avanti, LNER and Caledonian Sleeper.

 

[Clip]

Wellglade is the "obscure" one and is the operator of Trentbarton.

So a much much smaller operation then and one that doesn't have say, one area of the country with problems which brings the whole group into contention then? I see

 

[RichT54]

More noise pollution? No thanks.

 

[Clip]

Three... Avanti, LNER and Caledonian Sleeper.

And are they not all defined by different liveries and thus easier to tell apart than a simple bing bing on the tannoy?

 

[Sprinter153]

The old Arriva Trains Wales ‘jingle’ used on-board is probably a good example of this.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The old Arriva Trains Wales ‘jingle’ used on-board is probably a good example of this.

Ah yes, I forgot that one. Quite distinctly Welsh, though I don't know if it was the first few bars of anything significant. Have TfW dropped it?

First few bars of the Welsh national anthem would be cool (and similar to what DB do on some of the Dostos - as you pass from Bundesland to Bundesland the jingle is the first few bars of the Landeshymne).

Don't think it was ever used on stations, though, which is a shame.

 

[Darandio]

And are they not all defined by different liveries and thus easier to tell apart than a simple bing bing on the tannoy?

You seem to be assuming the average traveller will recognise a train by it's livery. In which case, how would they have recognised the Avanti livery, certainly at the period after they took over? Mostly plain white? A bit of green? Red and silver?

What about the period when Virgin had both the East Coast and West Coast franchises and Virgin liveries could be found at Edinburgh with trains heading down each side of the country. Just jump on the Virgin liveried one?

So no, it isn't a simple as being defined by different liveries. There are operators running around right now with trains in multiple schemes and that's before things get confused by trains being loaned.

 

[Clip]

You seem to be assuming the average traveller will recognise a train by it's livery. In which case, how would they have recognised the Avanti livery, certainly at the period after they took over? Mostly plain white? A bit of green? Red and silver?

What about the period when Virgin had both the East Coast and West Coast franchises and Virgin liveries could be found at Edinburgh with trains heading down each side of the country. Just jump on the Virgin liveried one?

So no, it isn't a simple as being defined by different liveries. There are operators running around right now with trains in multiple schemes and that's before things get confused by trains being loaned.

Yes I'm trying to point out why a livery would be more recognisable than a tannoy sound denoting a company.

So let's use your example of being at Edinburgh - I have a toc specific ticket to go to Glasgow.

Which of these is going to ensure I get to the correct train

A silly jingle
The livery on the train with the TOC specific branding
A decent well heard announcement

Arrange those is the order of which is more likely to make someone get their correct train. Then maybe you will see why having a jingle for each TOC is useless and not needed

 

[Bletchleyite]

Arrange those is the order of which is more likely to make someone get their correct train. Then maybe you will see why having a jingle for each TOC is useless and not needed

Branding serves much more than the purpose of which train you need to catch. A destination and "via" display does that, as it did when everything was blue and grey. It defines the personality of an organisation and helps with marketing it.

 

[cactustwirly]

Stagecoach, Wellglade, Go-Ahead and Transdev, certainly, in my view (no particular order).

I would say First bus are definitely better than Stagecoach, which appears to be an orange Arriva

 

[Clip]

Branding serves much more than the purpose of which train you need to catch. A destination and "via" display does that, as it did when everything was blue and grey. It defines the personality of an organisation and helps with marketing it.

I'm fully aware of how branding works thanks, however a jingle on the railway does nothing for branding and is just something you seem to think would be good when it serves no purpose at all.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm fully aware of how branding works thanks, however a jingle on the railway does nothing for branding and is just something you seem to think would be good when it serves no purpose at all.

So, how come both other countries' railways and other businesses think it is worthwhile?

 

[LLivery]

I'm a fan of the jingles in Brussels, Paris and Sydney, and believe TfL should have one. Within cities, they often become part of the local culture. But I don't really see it as necessary on the national network. If we must, however, I'd prefer a network-wide one (or one for each home nation), rather than one for every TOC. And if I had to choose one, it'd be the MML/EMT one.

 

[py_megapixel]

I'm a fan of the jingles in Brussels, Paris and Sydney, and believe TfL should have one. Within cities, they often become part of the local culture. But I don't really see it as necessary on the national network. If we must, however, I'd prefer a network-wide one (or one for each home nation), rather than one for every TOC. And if I had to choose one, it'd be the MML/EMT one.

Could you possibly post a link to that (possibly a video with it in)? A google search for "Midland Mainline announcement jingle" isn't yielding any useful results.

 

[LLivery]

Could you possibly post a link to that (possibly a video with it in)? A google search for "Midland Mainline announcement jingle" isn't yielding any useful results.

Skip to 2:30

 

[Bletchleyite]

FWIW I quite liked the WCML Mk3 "guitar strum", shame the Pendolino got a horrid piercing ding-dong instead.

features it.

 

[47271]

First Scotrail made a pretty good, and subtle, job of it without a tune when they got Fletcher Mathers to record all of their on train announcements. They're still going 15 years later and give the operator a distinctive and authentic sound - I always feel like I'm home when I get on at Waverley or Queen Street and Fletcher bursts into life.

At the other end of the scale for distinctive in a bad way was those awful old Transpennine announcements on the 185s sounding like they'd been done by someone from the office in their lunch hour. Certainly northern in character, but otherwise flat and dull and not giving anyone a good feeling about travelling on the service. 'The next stop is [long pause] Northallerton.'

So any day of the week I'd go for relevant information conveyed with real character with a positive tone over a silly sonic brand trigger.

 

[Bletchleyite]

At the other end of the scale for distinctive in a bad way was those awful old Transpennine announcements on the 185s sounding like they'd been done by someone from the office in their lunch hour. Certainly northern in character, but otherwise flat and dull and not giving anyone a good feeling about travelling on the service. 'The next stop is [long pause] Northallerton.'

Those were I understand done by a member of staff, yes. They came across as rude, peremptory and clipped, which was a perfect brand for the institutional arrogance of the TOC and the unpleasant experience of travelling on it at the time.

 

[py_megapixel]

FWIW I quite liked the WCML Mk3 "guitar strum", shame the Pendolino got a horrid piercing ding-dong instead.

That's not a guitar - it sounds more like a marimba! Also that 'bonk' at the end sounds almost like a mistake...

 

[Astro_Orbiter]

Years ago, I remember Hackbridge station in south London having a sort of trumpet fanfare type announcement of approx 4 notes, can't seem to find a clip of it however?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Years ago, I remember Hackbridge station in south London having a sort of trumpet fanfare type announcement of approx 4 notes, can't seem to find a clip of it however?

The PIS Connex installed played that when a train was going to run through non-stop.

 

[tetudo boy]

The Pendolino has one of the loveliest chimes I have ever heard on a train, though I'm not sure it's considered to be an audio brand...

 

[Bletchleyite]

That's not a guitar - it sounds more like a marimba! Also that 'bonk' at the end sounds almost like a mistake...

The "bonk" was track noise.

 

[tetudo boy]

More noise pollution? No thanks.

 

[BluePenguin]

How many operators go from London to Glasgow and Edinburgh?

Of course, there are only 2 operators. LNER and Avanti

 

[43096]

FWIW I quite liked the WCML Mk3 "guitar strum", shame the Pendolino got a horrid piercing ding-dong instead.

features it.

Think it was a Virgin West Coast* thing, rather than Mark 3.

The best jingle is the SBB one.


* actually West Coast TOU as they spec'd the interior refurb on the loco-hauled Mark 3s.

Of course, there are only 2 operators. LNER and Avanti

3. Caledonian Sleeper as well.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Lol exactly what I was thinking too!

Another common announcement, which has been going since BR first got on-board PIS, is the catch-all default "Don't forget to take all your belongings with you when leaving the train".
Oh and "station stop".
Must be on the conductor's course or something.

Virgin used to have a distinctive set of 2/3-tone chimes to start an announcement on their Mk3s (before 390/221 days).
Maybe that started under BR.

The old Arriva Trains Wales ‘jingle’ used on-board is probably a good example of this.

I think that one is a 175 (Coradia) thing, pre-dating ATW with First North Western.
Maybe on 180s too (haven't been on one for ages).
Might even be an Alstom thing (French of course).