Class 745 Stadler FLIRTs

[trebor79]

To be fair, I thought the original post meant "a single set of identical long FLIRTs covering all IC and StanEx diagrams, a single set of identical short FLIRTs covering all regional diagrams (rather than 3s and 4s) and a single set of identical Aventras covering all commuter diagrams" - that's what I would suggest. Or even use Aventras on StanEx if that would save a quid or three.

Wasn't the StanEx originally going to be 720s, but Stadler required a minimum order quantity for the 745s?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Wasn't the StanEx originally going to be 720s, but Stadler required a minimum order quantity for the 745s?

Ah, could have been.

 

[Energy]

Wasn't it suggested that the StanEx units (and indeed the whole 745s) were somewhat of a bit of a carrot to make the 755s worth stadlers time?

Indeed it is. The regional order alone is not that many cars so the 745s help boost it up to more cars as Stadler would have to do a lot of work to get the FLIRT in the UK. Could also be that having another fleet for intercity is not preferable and 2+3 is not going to be popular on the intercity route.

The Flirt order has about half the number of cabs of the original Aventra order (116 to 222) although the power packs are a fair point. If you include them in the total number of vehicles in the order (which I didn't before) it will drop it down slightly. But even at a best case 1.5x the cost per vehicle, it turns a £869 million order into a £1.3 billion one, which is going to hurt. And that's before even considering running costs - I can't find track access charges/mile for the stadlers, but a 240m long 720 works out at 81p/mile - I struggle to imagine a FLIRT being cheaper with their higher axle loadings

More cabs per cars, its 2 per 3/4/12 (12 cars also have 2x cab electronics in the centre as the 12 cars are 2 six cars put together) compared to 2 per 5 for Aventras.

 

[Taylorgb19]

The 745s are the longest Stadler Has ever built for first time

 

[Bletchleyite]

The 745s are the longest Stadler Has ever built for first time

Though they are in effect two single-ended units coupled permanently, so not that far from the norm.

 

[dk1]

The 745s are the longest Stadler Has ever built for first time

I'm not so sure of that. They are only x2 6-car units which was all Stadler could do.

 

[Energy]

I'm not so sure of that. They are only x2 6-car units which was all Stadler could do.

They are the longest which is classified as a single unit (technically they are 2 6 cars though). They beat out the SMILE by around 40 metres.

 

[AlexanderC]

The acceleration of these units will be needed today with all the Norwich services stopping at All stations between Norwich and Shenfield.

 

[dk1]

The acceleration of these units will be needed today with all the Norwich services stopping at All stations between Norwich and Shenfield.

The schedules have been slackened to take account of this adding around 8-10 minutes which will be easy with all the usual sitting around waiting time. Biggest risk will be the bidi working.

 

[py_megapixel]

Why are what are supposed to be Norwich fasts doing all stations to Shenfield? Is there some issue with the 345s?

 

[trebor79]

Why are what are supposed to be Norwich fasts doing all stations to Shenfield? Is there some issue with the 345s?

Something to do with a collapsed embankment. I guess the bidi working means less paths for trains to run, so they've canned some of the stoppers with the Norwich trains doing the honours.

 

[dk1]

Why are what are supposed to be Norwich fasts doing all stations to Shenfield? Is there some issue with the 345s?

Other side of Shenfield.

 

[TheEdge]

Why are what are supposed to be Norwich fasts doing all stations to Shenfield? Is there some issue with the 345s?

Emergency timetable in force as there has been a bank slip at Ingatestone. Only Norwich and Clacton are running through.

 

[Railperf]

We've recorded a 38min 33sec time for a 745 between London and Colchester now.
This was achieved with the unit 6 late off Liverpool Street, Stratford passed in 5.01, Shenfield in 17.15, Chelmsford in 24.08, Witham in 29.53 and Marks Tey in 34.41 arriving 2 MIN EARLY on a 46 minute schedule. Virtually 90mph all the way from Forest Gate to Harold Wood, a 20mph TSR just north of Brentwood and then full use of the 90mph and 100mph sections to Chelmsford and Colchester respectively.
Full details of the run in our quarterly magazine 'Milepost' at www.railperf.org.uk

 

[dk1]

Emergency timetable in force as there has been a bank slip at Ingatestone. Only Norwich and Clacton are running through.

We got twice cautioned for that earlier this week. Once we where asked to do line speed over it after some rectification work when it was only half a mile ahead & then only gave us a double yellow There was still a definite kink in it then. Looks like some drainage issue.

 

[Railperf]

We got twice cautioned for that earlier this week. Once we where asked to do line speed over it after some rectification work when it was only half a mile ahead & then only gave us a double yellow There was still a definite kink in it then. Looks like some drainage issue.

The ride over those embankments is 'lively' to say the least - even on a good day. I guess that's why 90mph is the maximum along there.

 

[Bald Rick]

We got twice cautioned for that earlier this week. Once we where asked to do line speed over it after some rectification work when it was only half a mile ahead & then only gave us a double yellow There was still a definite kink in it then. Looks like some drainage issue.

It’s the London clay embankment, moving.

It’s one of the main reasons why you’ll never see speeds higher than 90/100 mph around there.

 

[dk1]

It’s the London clay embankment, moving.

It’s one of the main reasons why you’ll never see speeds higher than 90/100 mph around there.

Can be wonderfully bouncy through that stretch.

 

[Railperf]

Can be wonderfully bouncy through that stretch.

Enough to throw you out of your seat?

 

[hexagon789]

The acceleration of these units will be needed today with all the Norwich services stopping at All stations between Norwich and Shenfield.

They'll manage that with aplomb, those things can seriously shift!

 

[Railperf]

They'll manage that with aplomb, those things can seriously shift!

As said before extra 10 min added to schedule... So a waste of these units capabilities.
But drivers could be more cautious with station approaches due to unfamiliarity with the unusual stopping points

 

[hexagon789]

As said before extra 10 min added to schedule... So a waste of these units capabilities.

I did notice that, which means they really won't have any difficulty at all. So I think my "aplomb" was quite apt!

But I agree, they could probably have gone for 5 mins and it would still be 'comfortable'.

 

[Railperf]

Looking at the 0930 from LST.. There was a fair delay at Shenfield waiting for up line to clear. So maybe the units will get a crack at some fast running.

 

[dk1]

Enough to throw you out of your seat?

We have lovely bouncy seats to drive with now too

 

[Railperf]

Does not look like any sparkling times being achieved yet according to RTT.
The Shenfield to Chelmsford section is being run slower than scheduled.. Probably because wrong line speeds and crossovers are not taken into account by the sectional running times.

We have lovely bouncy seats to drive with now too

How are they rostering drivers today.. Are they assigning Liverpool Street drivers to do south of Colchester with all the extra stops? I imagine you guys aren't too familiar with the braking points for Kelvedon Hatfield Peverel and Ingatestone. You do get the occasional Witham stop early morning and late evening. Plus Marks Tey has been a terminus for some time from Liverpool St at weekends?

 

[Bikeman78]

We've recorded a 38min 33sec time for a 745 between London and Colchester now.
This was achieved with the unit 6 late off Liverpool Street, Stratford passed in 5.01, Shenfield in 17.15, Chelmsford in 24.08, Witham in 29.53 and Marks Tey in 34.41 arriving 2 MIN EARLY on a 46 minute schedule. Virtually 90mph all the way from Forest Gate to Harold Wood, a 20mph TSR just north of Brentwood and then full use of the 90mph and 100mph sections to Chelmsford and Colchester respectively.
Full details of the run in our quarterly magazine 'Milepost' at www.railperf.org.uk

For comparison, what is the fastest recorded time with an 86 or 90? I did the Norwich in 90 with a 90 and it didn't hang about.

 

[Railperf]

For comparison, what is the fastest recorded time with an 86 or 90? I did the Norwich in 90 with a 90 and it didn't hang about.

39 min 21 secs with a Class 86 in 1991, and 40 min 18 secs with a '90' in 2011

For comparison, what is the fastest recorded time with an 86 or 90? I did the Norwich in 90 with a 90 and it didn't hang about.

In some cases.. Other usually 'fast' services were looped or sent down the electric lines to keep them out of the way - causing some annoyance to those passengers and staff whose journeys were made slower by the Nin90

 

[86246]

The 745s are certainly showing their flexability today as the hauled stock in these circumstances would have terminated at Colchester or would have run straight through.

 

[Railperf]

The 745s are certainly showing their flexability today as the hauled stock in these circumstances would have terminated at Colchester or would have run straight through.

Why would that be? Dispatch issues from the smaller intermediate stations?

 

[dk1]

Does not look like any sparkling times being achieved yet according to RTT.
The Shenfield to Chelmsford section is being run slower than scheduled.. Probably because wrong line speeds and crossovers are not taken into account by the sectional running times.


How are they rostering drivers today.. Are they assigning Liverpool Street drivers to do south of Colchester with all the extra stops? I imagine you guys aren't too familiar with the braking points for Kelvedon Hatfield Peverel and Ingatestone. You do get the occasional Witham stop early morning and late evening. Plus Marks Tey has been a terminus for some time from Liverpool St at weekends?

No mate all on our booked jobs. Adds a bit of interest to the day.