Most comfortable trains

[raetiamann]

Over the weekend I was watching videos I'd shor from the early 90s to the present day (or at least until last February). Whilst primarily European, I've shot film in North America, Asia and Australia/New Zealand. I got to thinking about which trains offered most comfort. Allowing for the fact the condition of the track makes quite a difference I came up with a top three, so here goes

In 3rd place Amtrak Superliner. Comfortable seating and so much space. We were on a tour and our coach (bus) departed L.A. just ahead of the train, but beat us to our destination by about 90 minutes, which as we weren't time sensitive didn't matter.

2nd choice is from Switzerland. I think the Bombardier double decker Inter City coaches are great, but SBB/CFF/FFS Panoramic coaches are absolutely excellent. I've travelled the Gotthard and Arlberg routes and as well as comfort the coaches offered amazing viewing throughout the large windows. I'm only surprised that only 12 of these coaches were built.

Ist place from me goes to OBBs class 4010 Transalpin EMUs. So much comfort, but the highlight was late in their working life 1st class was declassified, meaning if you were lucky armchair comfort was available in the driving trailer on a 2nd class ticket.

Be interest to hear other choices.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I find the SBB IC2000 double deck stock to be awful (though to be fair Swiss people aren't generally overly tall and generally seem quite skinny), the seats are far too narrow, the legroom too tight and the windows tiny. EW IVs and the scenic rebuilds are decent, though. The double deckers appear to me to be what you get when a bean counter gets it into their head that because it's double deck you need to get double the seats in (or as close as possible).

If you want nice double deckers, you want the most recent DB ones, ideally the IC-Twindexx as they have nicer seats. Would be better for Switzerland too due to the large windows - and indeed SBB do have some for regional services, I believe, and more on order for IC services - though ridiculously with smaller windows, again!

I would say those old DB coaches that were 2+1 (in 2nd class!) with the 2 side as a mini-compartment were hard to beat. Second place probably the ICEs, just because the Grammer ICE3000 is a really very good seat.

Honourable mention to the "classic" Swiss EW I/II first class for making you feel like you've gone back to the 50s.

 

[Will Mitchell]

I’ve always been impressed by the level of comfort on the various TGVs in 1st class. Seat comfort is usually armchair-like and the ambience is good, with warm(ish) lighting, decent ride comfort (at least on the LGVs) and muted external noise and vibration. Ditto the old Eurostars, pre-refurb. The ICEs aren’t too bad either, although I find the seats too hard. Unfortunately the rail industry is involved in a race to the bottom as far as comfort goes. With each new generation of train, comfort levels seem to deteriorate. I fear rail is losing one of its competitive advantages as a result.

 

[Gloster]

The DSB IC3 would be my choice, although I liked the ICE-TD and some of the older Swedish coaches.

 

[raetiamann]

I find the SBB IC2000 double deck stock to be awful (though to be fair Swiss people aren't generally overly tall and generally seem quite skinny), the seats are far too narrow, the legroom too tight and the windows tiny. EW IVs and the scenic rebuilds are decent, though. The double deckers appear to me to be what you get when a bean counter gets it into their head that because it's double deck you need to get double the seats in (or as close as possible).

If you want nice double deckers, you want the most recent DB ones, ideally the IC-Twindexx as they have nicer seats. Would be better for Switzerland too due to the large windows - and indeed SBB do have some for regional services, I believe, and more on order for IC services - though ridiculously with smaller windows, again!

I would say those old DB coaches that were 2+1 (in 2nd class!) with the 2 side as a mini-compartment were hard to beat. Second place probably the ICEs, just because the Grammer ICE3000 is a really very good seat.

Honourable mention to the "classic" Swiss EW I/II first class for making you feel like you've gone back to the 50s.

The Swiss seem to think that we the new base tunnels and inside soundproofing that vision out of the Windows is a minor consideration. I've only travelled in the IC double decker in 1st and didn't find a lack of space.

Your mention of the EW11s made me think about the refurbished sets for the Voralpen Express. 1st class had almost double length Windows and super seats too. The VE is an underrated journey in my opinion.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The Swiss seem to think that we the new base tunnels and inside soundproofing that vision out of the Windows is a minor consideration. I've only travelled in the IC double decker in 1st and didn't find a lack of space.

I've travelled in 1st on those and find it an acceptable (nothing special) Standard class. If you compare it with 1st on other InterCity trains[1] worldwide it's one of the worst.

Your mention of the EW11s made me think about the refurbished sets for the Voralpen Express. 1st class had almost double length Windows and super seats too. The VE is an underrated journey in my opinion.

Yes, I remember those.

[1] Ignoring sham-1st like that found on 350s, refurb 444s and the likes. 2+2 isn't 1st.

The DSB IC3 would be my choice, although I liked the ICE-TD and some of the older Swedish coaches.

I forgot the IC3 - actual armchairs! Remember being properly impressed when I first boarded one.

 

[duesselmartin]

3. TGV Duplex.
2. SBB Trenitalia Astoro.
1. Former DB Metropolitan set.

 

[Bletchleyite]

3. TGV Duplex.

I don't get enthusiasm for TGVs, I find them a bit rubbish. A bit cramped and poor window alignment even in 1st. Other than possibly the ride (but German track is always near-perfect) I find the various ICEs much, much better.

2. SBB Trenitalia Astoro.

The New Pendolino sets? They look really classy inside and out, but due to a number of poor design decisions (primarily the seat) Standard is unnecessarily cramped. The Polish ones are identical if I recall, other than that they don't have tilt.

1. Former DB Metropolitan set.

And that is the winner!

Sadly not had a long ride on it, only, if I recall, a cheeky fare-dodge between Hamburg-Altona and Hbf (they wouldn't sell a ticket on it for that when it was the Metropolitan).

 

[30907]

I would support the Transalpin sets - when I first rode one in the early 70s (in 2nd!) they were several cuts above anything else in mainland (Western) Europe. The IC3s are nice, if now dated.
I was impressed by the DB ICE-Ts in 2nd and still think they are excellent, though rather wasteful of space.

I now tend to travel 1st, and in general modern long distance first is good to excellent quality, but I also find TGV 1st1st a bit cramped - I think it's being double-deck (and IIRC built to a smaller loading gauge than DB/OeBB).

The SBB Panoramawagen are good for the view, but rather niche being used in penny numbers on a handful of routes. And the Nightjet doubledecker de luxe likewise, though I love both!

 

[MarcVD]

Nothing about compartment coaches ? For me UIC type Z (a.k.a. Eurofima) coaches were the absolute best, both in second and first class.

And the alignment between seats and windows is essential. I deny any prétention to confort to any equipment where I risk getting a blind seat...

 

[Fireless]

Coaches 3-5 on the DB Metropolitan sets should be the most comfortable second class in Europe with the generous 2+1 seating.

 

[StephenHunter]

BR Mark 1 FKs for me.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Nothing about compartment coaches ?

Compartment coaches are cool if you get a compartment to yourself, but I never found any that comfortable per-se.

And the alignment between seats and windows is essential. I deny any prétention to confort to any equipment where I risk getting a blind seat...

That's one thing SBB do get right, but specifying tiny windows in the double deckers in a super-scenic country is nuts. The DB ones have huge windows and would be much better.

 

[Richard Scott]

Quite like ICE trains (401/2 best due to lack of noise) and German IC stock in general. Agree about TGV, can't see what the fuss is about. Other worthy of a mention are the Irish coaches used on Dublin to Belfast route, but still got to go a long way to beat British loco hauled stock I'm afraid! For regional stock always liked the DB silberling coaches, seats aligned with windows and no air conditioning (not a fan of air con), huge drop light windows, great!

 

[317666]

I'd struggle to pick a winner, so in no particular order:

NMBS I10
DB ICE-3 (unrefurbished, yet to try a refurbished one with the ICE-4 seats)
ÖBB IC/EC coaches (both the compartment and open coaches, but especially the former business class compartments which are now regular first!)

 

[Spoorslag '70]

The Dutch ICM(m) stock is extremely decent for the services they operate - very comfy seats, decent legroom and quite a good ride. Pre-redesign ICE3s are quite nice (especially the first batch with standard class compartments in coach x7) but they are quite busy vandalising them with ICE4 seats...

I was also pretty happy with the Chiltern Mk3 sets with tons of legroom and tolerable seats.

A honorable mention to the Bwmz and Bpwz coaches which used to appear on IC services in Germany (declassified first class coaches, mostly with pink plush seats) and the Bm coaches on Alex.

 

[raetiamann]

ALEX on the Munich -Lindau/Oberstdorf services have a real mish mash of coaching stock, some of which has been refurbished to a decent standard, others which haven't, can be good to uncomfortable. Always been an interesting service though.

 

[swissrailpassion]

Romanian IR stock with the mock railjet livery was incredibly comfortable.

 

[43096]

That's one thing SBB do get right, but specifying tiny windows in the double deckers in a super-scenic country is nuts. The DB ones have huge windows and would be much better.

The DB double decks aren’t 200km/h capable, which might explain why additional bodywork strength (=smaller windows) is needed?

 

[jamesontheroad]

I am stunned any DB train gets mentioned here. Maybe the Metropolitan set, but every ICE has mean, thin and rock hard seats.

The DSB IC3 would be my choice, although I liked the ICE-TD and some of the older Swedish coaches.

I agree. Hands down, the DSB IC3 has the comfiest seats in Europe and the best alignment of windows to tables.

Although the seats are a bit more firm, the SJ X55 / X3000 (Bombardier Regina) has a very pleasant interior arrangement; maybe it's my runner up. Good legroom, good recline, a handy cup holder between the seats in front of you, and a generous shelf between the window and the seat thanks to the wide bodyshell. Also a nice mix of materials. First and second class are almost indistinguishable, although this photo shows first class (with additional reading lamps between the headrests).

 

[Steve4031]

The Shinkansen trains in Japan have comfortable seats in first class. For high speed trains I would rank them the best.

The most comfortable overnight equipment is the Budd cars on VIA rails Canadians in sleeper class. The domes cars are enjoyable for viewing scenery.

There is a more luxurious and much more expensive grand class which I have not experienced.

 

[Austriantrain]

I would support the Transalpin sets - when I first rode one in the early 70s (in 2nd!) they were several cuts above anything else in mainland (Western) Europe.

They were built with 2+1 seating even in second class open coach...

 

[MarcVD]

Anyone here ever tried the Inox TEE or Grand Confort cars of SNCF ?
Granted, it’s only first class, but... I believe that even in first class, this level of confort doesn't exist anymore today.

 

[Beebman]

Anyone here ever tried the Inox TEE or Grand Confort cars of SNCF ?
Granted, it’s only first class, but... I believe that even in first class, this level of confort doesn't exist anymore today.

I once travelled between Antwerp and Brussels (on an SNCB rover) in an Inox TEE 1st class compartment and I'd certainly rank it as one of the most comfortable seats I've had. However the most comfortable seat I've had in Europe which I can remember was sometime around 2000 when i travelled from Verona to Venice in a fairly old (1960s/70s?) 1st class air-conditioned open coach. I'm no expert in FS rolling stock so I don't know what type it was but it looked like it was once used on the top long-distance trains.

Outside of Europe I would agree that first (Green) class Shinkansen seats are very comfortable (added to the fact that the trains seem to run more smoothly than their European counterparts). However the most comfortable seat I ever had in Japan or indeed anywhere was on a Kintetsu Railway 50000 Series EMU:

 

[Jamesrob637]

Shinkansen Green Class is great but standard is only mediocre. A 3+2 arrangement is acceptable given how wide they are
Some French non-TGV trains were very comfortable such as the one I caught from Bordeaux to Marseille in late-2019
Swiss stock is only comfortable in 1st - overpriced in 2nd apart from passes
ICEs are comfy
TGV is okay - more a case of design over comfort. Iconic train though.

 

[AlbertBeale]

The Danish trains I used to and from Hamburg a year or so back were the most comfortable trains I've ever been on anywhere in living memory.

Why can't others.... etc etc.

 

[peteb]

SNCF still have very comfortable older corail 1st class open stock on Bordeaux to Marseille loco hauled route. Capacious armchair comfort and way better than the "modernised" 2nd class stock on the same train formation!

 

[43096]

The Danish trains I used to and from Hamburg a year or so back were the most comfortable trains I've ever been on anywhere in living memory.

Why can't others.... etc etc.

DSB IC3 units, I presume?

Must admit, the first time I travelled on one, it was one of the biggest positive surprises I've had getting on a train.

 

[Bletchleyite]

DSB IC3 units, I presume?

Must admit, the first time I travelled on one, it was one of the biggest positive surprises I've had getting on a train.

First impression I had was that it was basically a modern re-hash of a Mk2a coach with even better seats. (Though I have to slouch in Mk2as because the headrest is a bit low down).

 

[leytongabriel]

The old SNCF Inter-City coaches had great second class seats and some in compartments too. Replaced in Normandy by slightly better than suburban double-deckers, still not much fun for a 2 -3 hr trip.