Class 345 progress

[Horizon22]

I read somewhere that there is a turnback but I don't know if it is electrified. I also read the connection to the North Kent line is only suitable for engineering trains.

Yes I too believe it isn't to be used in passenger service in any form.

The turnaround is currently set at 8 minutes, or was pre Christmas, so enough time to change ends, though very tight if a change of driver, especially with the need to sanitise the cab and controls prior to setting up.
the turnback, or bolthole as it’s known, is electrified far enough to capture both pantographs, but ends shortly afterwards.

And to confirm Kevin’s question, yes the trains arrive and depart from alternate platforms at Abbeywood.

They've got 7 minutes at Hayes & Paddington at the moment, and 7 I know in other metro areas. Often there is relief, but not always. Yes its tight, but doable.

 

[PJSADI]

Yes I too believe it isn't to be used in passenger service in any form.



They've got 7 minutes at Hayes & Paddington at the moment, and 7 I know in other metro areas. Often there is relief, but not always. Yes its tight, but doable.

Yes, 7 minutes on the West, but the 8 minutes was in reference to turnaround times during SIDT and at Abbeywood.
Though I believe the long term plan, post testing, so in an operational mode, may be for a driver to be waiting at the London end of Abbeywood to relieve the driver of the unit he brought in. That driver would then head down the platform to the London end and relieve the driver of the next arriving unit, and so on so as to decrease the turnaround time!

 

[Horizon22]

Yes, 7 minutes on the West, but the 8 minutes was in reference to turnaround times during SIDT and at Abbeywood.
Though I believe the long term plan, post testing, so in an operational mode, may be for a driver to be waiting at the London end of Abbeywood to relieve the driver of the unit he brought in. That driver would then head down the platform to the London end and relieve the driver of the next arriving unit, and so on so as to decrease the turnaround time!

I presume trial running will test how SIDT and 8 minutes works in practice then? Obviously that will depend on how they decide to diagram the service - its not very efficient to have driver relief all the time throughout the day but if at say Abbey Wood, the driver brings a train in on P3 and then works the next inward as opposed to the same train, that gives 18 minutes which is more reasonable. Or works from the alternative platform which is 13 minutes.

 

[Gulf1159]

Yes, 7 minutes on the West, but the 8 minutes was in reference to turnaround times during SIDT and at Abbeywood.
Though I believe the long term plan, post testing, so in an operational mode, may be for a driver to be waiting at the London end of Abbeywood to relieve the driver of the unit he brought in. That driver would then head down the platform to the London end and relieve the driver of the next arriving unit, and so on so as to decrease the turnaround time!

Yes that is correct when fully operational, the drivers would step up on each train except when booked a PNB

 

[Dstock7080]

The siding/North Kent line connection beyond the platform at Abbey Wood is really an extension of the "westbound" platform 3, and doesn't have a connection to the "eastbound" platform 4 line, so is not usable for reversing. It can be used to stable a train out of the way though I guess.

At the end of both platforms is a small secondary ticket hall/circulation area with an entrance/exit out to the street. All this would have to be demolished if services are ever run through onto the North Kent lines.

this (rather lopsided) picture taken in 2019 in Romford Control Centre shows the extent of overhead electrification, signalling and connection to North Kent line
signal XR602 being the limit of 345 operation.

 

[rebmcr]

Yes I too believe it isn't to be used in passenger service in any form.

this (rather lopsided) picture taken in 2019 in Romford Control Centre shows the extent of overhead electrification, signalling and connection to North Kent line
signal XR602 being the limit of 345 operation.

It still remains unclear to me whether this means ECS moves are permitted (even if not timetabled, such as disposing of a failed unit in the peak).

 

[kevin_roche]

this (rather lopsided) picture taken in 2019 in Romford Control Centre shows the extent of overhead electrification, signalling and connection to North Kent line
signal XR602 being the limit of 345 operation.

Thank you. Your picture clearly shows that the line beyond XR602 is marked 'Engineering Road'.

 

[43096]

345047 still seems to be reporting on Tiger as a 7-car. Indeed, it would appear that this unit (or another conversion) is working on Heathrow services

345057 shows on the system as being 9-car.

 

[Snow1964]

The latest TfL Board papers are now published (4.3 on page 71 says)

Class 345 Fleet usage is planned to rise in 2021 to maximum contractual levels (65 from 70 trains in daily use) as the Programme progressively starts Trial Running/Trial Operations, Stage 4a, and Stage 3.

http://content.tfl.gov.uk/board-20210203-agenda-papers.pdf

I have no idea what stage 4a which seems to be between trial operations and stage 3 entails

 

[goldenarrow]

The latest TfL Board papers are now published (4.3 on page 71 says)

Class 345 Fleet usage is planned to rise in 2021 to maximum contractual levels (65 from 70 trains in daily use) as the Programme progressively starts Trial Running/Trial Operations, Stage 4a, and Stage 3.

http://content.tfl.gov.uk/board-20210203-agenda-papers.pdf

I have no idea what stage 4a which seems to be between trial operations and stage 3 entails

I'd assume that like the splitting of Stage 5 for the start of TFL Rail West services to Reading, Stage 4a is the introduction of nine-car 345's on the Shenfield route taking place before Stage 3 which always was the start of core services between Paddington and Abbey Wood.

 

[kevin_roche]

There is a TfL Board Meeting planned for 3rd Feb 2021. Among the papers submitted in advance, there is a Crossrail update paper. http://content.tfl.gov.uk/board-20210203-agenda-papers.pdf

In paragraph 4.2 in that paper:

We continue to focus on mitigating software related failures in the European Train Control System signalling system. New software is being introduced in January and February 2021 to improve reliability. From 22 December 2020 the 9-car Class 345 trains were re-introduced out of Paddington and have so far performed in line with expectations and a further software update is on course to be delivered and brought into use at the beginning of February 2021.

Edit:
I meant to add that these appear to be the previously mentioned December and January updates.

 

[100andthirty]

Given the reports to the TfL Board are always presented with a positive spin, I wonder how bad the software problems really are?

 

[kevin_roche]

Given the reports to the TfL Board are always presented with a positive spin, I wonder how bad the software problems really are?

It's always a very bad sign when the version numbering system changes. We have now had at least 3. "TR2 will fix it!" Ha!

 

[Horizon22]

Given the reports to the TfL Board are always presented with a positive spin, I wonder how bad the software problems really are?

Well to me, the ETCS failures have certainly decreased but haven't disappeared completely.

 

[kevin_roche]

Well to me, the ETCS failures have certainly decreased but haven't disappeared completely.

Let's hope that the February release fixes the ones that remain.

 

[paulravuslante]

345045 was taken down to Hayes by ROG this evening for what seemed to be testing in the Heathrow Tunnel. Couldn’t see what the timings were on RTT. Ran as 5X50 according to Open Train Times.

 

[rebmcr]

345045 was taken down to Hayes by ROG

From where?

 

[paulravuslante]

From where?

Old Oak Common

 

[Horizon22]

They've been running a few of these 5X50s between T4 and Hayes last few evenings I believe. Presumably testing ETCS transitions.

 

[JonathanH]

Friday appears to be a different set of testing than the rest of the week. One of the presentations linked earlier on in this thread suggests that it is specifically Bombardier's opportunity to do testing under possession. This sometimes requires a unit being dragged from Old Oak Depot to Hayes & Harlington loop by a locomotive for testing on the Heathrow branch whereas weekday night testing involves units making their own way to Reading or Heathrow from the depot.

It does suggest that Friday night testing can be more experimental in nature.

The identification of the unit as 345045 yesterday is interesting. I had assumed it was 345002 previously.

 

[Horizon22]

Some dynamic testing going on today in the tunnels. Interesting to see the station codes too for the stations.

Realtime Trains | Live Departures from Paddington Crossrail

Live train information at Paddington Crossrail. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[rd749249]

After today there’s a 5 day emergency construction blockade where SIDT/DT takes a pause. I’m told this is to remedy a few things bought up the last round of DT post Christmas.

 

[43096]

345039/052 now showing on the system as 9 car sets, I'm told.

 

[JonathanH]

Reports elsewhere that 37510 took 345064 from Old Oak Depot to Ilford today with 345038 being taken the other way (although there was a further message which transposed the 4 and the 6).

 

[Gulf1159]

Reports elsewhere that 37510 took 345064 from Old Oak Depot to Ilford today with 345038 being taken the other way (although there was a further message which transposed the 4 and the 6).

I can confirm 345064 was the unit taken to Ilford

 

[yorkie]

Just a gentle reminder this is a Traction & Rolling Stock discussion on Class 345 updates

The forum has plenty of available capacity for new threads to be created on any other topic, in the appropriate forum section.

edit: I have split some posts off into the timetabling section and others into the stations & infrastructure section.

Thanks

 

[kevin_roche]

The monthly report from Mark Wild to the London Assembly for the month of February is now available on the TfL website. It includes the latest news on the Software for the Class 345.

https://content.tfl.gov.uk/alison-moore-montly-update-12-february-2021.pdf

The Public Performance Measure (PPM) for TfL Rail was 96.4% in the period between 13 December –9 January, with the Moving Annual Average now at 95.7%, the highest since TfL Rail took over operations.

The nine car Full Length Units (FLU) introduced in December 2020 to the Reading route have achieved the forecast reliability improvement.

The next significant uplift in reliability will be delivered by a further train software update to be applied to the fleet this month. The train software needed for entry into Trial Running has been loaded to FLUs in the central section (Paddington –Abbey Wood) for reliability trials.

 

[matt_world2004]

I saw a class 345 coming out of the tunnel as I was going into Paddington. Today it was tfl rail branded so previously used on the main line

Which probably outs paid to any rumours of different software for core testing and mainline usage

 

[JonathanH]

I saw a class 345 coming out of the tunnel as I was going into Paddington. Today it was tfl rail branded so previously used on the main line

Which probably outs paid to any rumours of different software for core testing and mainline usage

345027/37/53/54 are likely to be in the group of units used for core testing which were previously in use on TfL Rail services. There are still separate fleets. It would not seem implausible that some of the former 7-car units being converted to 9-car get used for core testing.

 

[Horizon22]

The monthly report from Mark Wild to the London Assembly for the month of February is now available on the TfL website. It includes the latest news on the Software for the Class 345.

https://content.tfl.gov.uk/alison-moore-montly-update-12-february-2021.pdf

Yes they've been much more reliable. In fact I'd hazard a guess that GWR's new 387 HeX units have probably had more (or at least equal) the number of ETCS failures, usually whilst starting at T5