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Grand Union Trains Plans to run from London to Cardiff - Now rejected by ORR

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The Planner

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Or maybe it's the absolutely huge demand for direct London services from Severn Tunnel Junction! :D

Although, in all seriousness, I think it's likely that it would be quite popular with people living in (for example) Magor, who currently have to drive to the centre of Newport to catch the train (or to Bristol Parkway); instead they could just drive to STJ.
Tiny tiny car park there though.
 
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Bald Rick

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Or maybe it's the absolutely huge demand for direct London services from Severn Tunnel Junction! :D

Although, in all seriousness, I think it's likely that it would be quite popular with people living in (for example) Magor, who currently have to drive to the centre of Newport to catch the train (or to Bristol Parkway); instead they could just drive to STJ.

But how much would be new to rail?
 

stj

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Or maybe it's the absolutely huge demand for direct London services from Severn Tunnel Junction! :D

Although, in all seriousness, I think it's likely that it would be quite popular with people living in (for example) Magor, who currently have to drive to the centre of Newport to catch the train (or to Bristol Parkway); instead they could just drive to STJ.
I think at one time London was the third popular destination after Bristol/Cardiff but post Covid fewer will be travelling to London for a long time.
 

Envoy

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You may think that STJ is in the middle of nowhere but actually it is a very central location. The people of Chepstow might wish to drive to STJ as the trains on the Severnside line do not always match up with those on the GWML going through the tunnel. The alternative for Chepstow people is to drive to Bristol Parkway for London trains. Furthermore, Monmouth & Usk are not on the rail network and STJ is the most convenient railhead for the people of SE Monmouthshire if heading to/from southern England. My understanding is that parking at STJ is to be increased as part of the South Wales Metro project. (For Usk, a new direct access is being built from the A4042 to a P&R onThe Marches line at Pontypool & New Inn).

I really do wonder if a better case could be made if these Grand Union services were to run via the Swansea District Line to serve a parkway station at Morriston and then on to Llanelli or even Carmarthen? They may therefore have provided a more speedy service between Cardiff & west Wales by not going into Swansea.

I wish an open access operator would consider using a 5 car bi-mode 800 on this route:> Edinburgh > Carlisle> Oxenholm > Preston > Warrington > Crewe > Shrewsbury > Hereford > Abergavenny > Newport > Cardiff and maybe continue to Swansea. This would be creating an Inter City service linking important population centres where none exists today.
 

Envoy

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There are firm plans for a new Car park to the south of the station.A junction onto the M4 via the old Toll area has also been mooted.
Yes, a junction from the old toll booths location on the M4 is something I suggested ages ago.
 

stj

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Yes, a junction from the old toll booths location on the M4 is something I suggested ages ago.
There was also a plan as part of the M4 relief for a new Junction on the M4 just to the west of STJ which would do the same job.Not sure if thats still part of the M4 relief plan B.
 

Bald Rick

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Of course. But hopefully the railway industry will be able to look beyond just revenue in future.

They have for the last 20 years. In future though, it will all be about subsidy reduction.

There are firm plans for a new Car park to the south of the station.A junction onto the M4 via the old Toll area has also been mooted.

Wasn’t that part of the GUT proposal though?
 

Envoy

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I think the new Car Park is a Metro project
Grand Union did say that they were going to improve parking at STJ but I also think that the Metro project included it as well. What is clear is that this station serves people going in different directions by train and the present car park is inadequate.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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'Depot' is a bit of an elaboration - it is just some servicing facilities in what otherwise look like bay platforms at the south end of the southbound platform at Wrexham.

Yes, it's just the 2 old south-facing bays, beyond the overbridge, which were refurbished and equipped with watering and electricity supplies.
 

21C101

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Maybe rebuild and rename Severn Tunnel Junction as South Wales Parkway and upgrade the maintenance access junction right next to it on the M4 to a full junction to serve it. Could be as well used as Bristol Parkway is on the other side of the stream?
 

stj

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Maybe rebuild and rename Severn Tunnel Junction as South Wales Parkway and upgrade the maintenance access junction right next to it on the M4 to a full junction to serve it. Could be as well used as Bristol Parkway is on the other side of the stream?
Maybe one day it could happen.There is also a plan for a Parkway on the old Llanwern site near the CAF plant,but not sure if thats been canned.
 

21C101

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Maybe one day it could happen.There is also a plan for a Parkway on the old Llanwern site near the CAF plant,but not sure if thats been canned.
The key hurdle to get over is whether it would attract new passengers or mostly abstract passengers from stations further west.
 

tiptoptaff

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The key hurdle to get over is whether it would attract new passengers or mostly abstract passengers from stations further west.
Depends if the primary aim of the station would be to attract new passengers or reduce the numbers driving in to Newport city centre
 

21C101

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Depends if the primary aim of the station would be to attract new passengers or reduce the numbers driving in to Newport city centre
I'm guessing it would attract passengers from a good way west of Newport, although perhaps less than if the 2 lane bit of the M4 round Newport had heen bypassed.
 

tiptoptaff

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Any "failed" OA has a common denominator - Ian Yeowart.

Hull Trains and Grand Central (East Coast) have both been very successful. Can't see either of them going anywhere any time soon.
 

Ianno87

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Any "failed" OA has a common denominator - Ian Yeowart.

He was involved in Grand Central until around 2009, so got them off the ground.


I think the only "failed" operation that reached the point of actually starting is Wrexham and Shropshire.

I don't think I'd count the Grand Central Blackpool service as having "failed", more a victim of a highly unexpected set of events.
 

Iskra

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Any "failed" OA has a common denominator - Ian Yeowart.

Hull Trains and Grand Central (East Coast) have both been very successful. Can't see either of them going anywhere any time soon.
The Jacobite and NYMR Whitby extensions are also very successful.
 

Watershed

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Any "failed" OA has a common denominator - Ian Yeowart.

Hull Trains and Grand Central (East Coast) have both been very successful. Can't see either of them going anywhere any time soon.
Fundamentally he has made many proposals that would bring custom to the industry. His proposals have largely floundered as a result of protectionist government policy - see W&S and the VT MoC clauses, as well as obviously the rejection here. GC (WC) failed because of Covid restrictions.

In some ways you have to feel for the man, having lots of ideas - some of them half decent - and facing roadblocks at every stage.
 

43096

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Fundamentally he has made many proposals that would bring custom to the industry. His proposals have largely floundered as a result of protectionist government policy - see W&S and the VT MoC clauses, as well as obviously the rejection here. GC (WC) failed because of Covid restrictions.

In some ways you have to feel for the man, having lots of ideas - some of them half decent - and facing roadblocks at every stage.
It's certainly a very convoluted process in the UK that stifles competition. Contrast with RegioJet in Czechia (and other countries) - they launched a Prague to Rijeka service last summer in just 6 weeks which runs through five countries.
 

Bald Rick

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Fundamentally he has made many proposals that would bring custom to the industry.

Whilst they might bring net custom to the industry, as the ORR judgement shows, it also brings more net cost than custom. Unfortunately, the OA takes the benefit of the custom, whilst the Government takes the hit on the cost.
 
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