Vaccine Passports/Permanent restrictions

[Gadget88]

This changing of the goalposts needs to be stopped NOW. I can only see more protests and violence occurring if this continues. Our European neighbours have had their fair share already.

I see the Isle of Man dropped things like masks and social distancing and also Florida? Surely if other places go back to normal our government can’t try and plug it? Doesn’t Hancock dream of keeping us in masks to keep flu down?

You read panic-inducing media articles designed to sell clicks, and you bought into them. Let's step back a bit and see what actually happens.

I would like to be positive but I can’t see a return to travel or masks going.

 

[nlogax]

I would like to be positive but I can’t see a return to travel or masks going.

I appreciate that it's hard to stay positive, but this is why it's important to steer clear of constantly checking headlines and interviews. The Mary Ramsay interview was a good case in point..an absolute debacle and a lone voice not aligned to any government strategy that could be determined.

 

[takno]

You read panic-inducing media articles designed to sell clicks, and you bought into them. Let's step back a bit and see what actually happens.

The government has already placed the orders for billions of pounds worth of lateral flow tests, and at least one factory is being built specifically to supply them. I don't think it's alarmist to assume that they are determined not to take a sensible long-term approach to the virus.

 

[Bikeman78]

So Saturday: we were told:

No foreign holidays this summer

Sunday:

Masks and social distancing will continue for YEARS

Today:

Campaign urges Britons to take two Covid tests a week

Testing drive will encourage adults to test themselves twice a week and will be supplemented by sewage monitoring to quickly identify cases across the UK.

www.dailymail.co.uk

You need to test yourself for the virus twice a week.

So it seems the vaccine isn’t the so called freedom pass it was being sold on. Funny that it’s come out after 55% have been vaccinated.

More testing nonsense. How much is this costing? What's the end goal? I've never had a test and never likely to unless I have to take one to go abroad.

 

[packermac]

I see the Isle of Man dropped things like masks and social distancing and also Florida? Surely if other places go back to normal our government can’t try and plug it? Doesn’t Hancock dream of keeping us in masks to keep flu down?


I would like to be positive but I can’t see a return to travel or masks going.

Maybe not working in Florida as they have a high daily case rate and have imposed a curfew on Miami Beach due to spring break bringing stupid numbers into the area.

 

[nlogax]

The government has already placed the orders for billions of pounds worth of lateral flow tests, and at least one factory is being built specifically to supply them. I don't think it's alarmist to assume that they are determined not to take a sensible long-term approach to the virus.

In of itself I really can't get too riled up about testing. Add in mandatory mask-wearing and other continued restrictions and then it's a different story. I appreciate the government's track record hardly inspires confidence that they'll do the right thing but the rest of these stories are just conjecture and tomorrow's faded pixels until / unless the government says otherwise.

 

[liam456]

So Saturday: we were told:

No foreign holidays this summer

Sunday:

Masks and social distancing will continue for YEARS

Today:

Campaign urges Britons to take two Covid tests a week

Testing drive will encourage adults to test themselves twice a week and will be supplemented by sewage monitoring to quickly identify cases across the UK.

www.dailymail.co.uk

You need to test yourself for the virus twice a week.

So it seems the vaccine isn’t the so called freedom pass it was being sold on. Funny that it’s come out after 55% have been vaccinated.

I feel so dirty that I am finding solace in Daily Mail comment sections. I need a shower....

(I'm only 10% serious!)

Will there be a need for asympomatic testing come widespread vaccination though?

 

[Yew]

Maybe not working in Florida as they have a high daily case rate and have imposed a curfew on Miami Beach due to spring break bringing stupid numbers into the area.

Still a long way from the bloodbath that was promised by some epidemiologists...

 

[Silver Cobra]

Today:

Campaign urges Britons to take two Covid tests a week

Testing drive will encourage adults to test themselves twice a week and will be supplemented by sewage monitoring to quickly identify cases across the UK.

www.dailymail.co.uk

You need to test yourself for the virus twice a week.

I honestly hope that either this never comes to fruition or it's only ever voluntary (and doesn't restrict you if you don't do it). I've never done a Covid test on myself as yet, but as I have very sensitive gastric reflexes and the fact you have to place the swab that far down your throat and up your nose, I know it would make me want to throw up each time I would need to do it. The thought of throwing up every time does not fill me with glee. It actually got me rather worried when I saw pamphlets at work regarding doing this kind of regular testing, but thankfully that so far is purely optional.

It makes me wonder what happened to the spit test they were trialling last year. While I still would prefer not needing to 'earn my right' to live by testing negative twice a week, I'd rather do spit tests than sticking swabs up my nose and down my throat.

 

[Richard Scott]

I honestly hope that either this never comes to fruition or it's only ever voluntary (and doesn't restrict you if you don't do it). I've never done a Covid test on myself as yet, but as I have very sensitive gastric reflexes and the fact you have to place the swab that far down your throat and up your nose, I know it would make me want to throw up each time I would need to do it. The thought of throwing up every time does not fill me with glee. It actually got me rather worried when I saw pamphlets at work regarding doing this kind of regular testing, but thankfully that so far is purely optional.

It makes me wonder what happened to the spit test they were trialling last year. While I still would prefer not needing to 'earn my right' to live by testing negative twice a week, I'd rather do spit tests than sticking swabs up my nose and down my throat.

It's pathetic, really can't see the need for this now and it's costing the country a fortune.
As the test is done at home how do they know you've done it properly? Could just rub it inside your mouth, who would beany the wiser? Why anyone would willingly stick something up their nose of rub back of their throat is beyond me.

 

[DB]

Will there be a need for asympomatic testing come widespread vaccination though?

That's the main question - why are the tests needed? What is their purpose and what are they going to achieve? Once they have vaccinated all those who want it, it should just become background noise and posing no risk of overwhelming health services, and there's nothing more that can be done other than tweaking the vaccine each year, as already happens with flu.

The vaccine was sold as allowing a return to normal, and a testing regime is nowhere near normal and is likely to lead to further social exclusion.

 

[KeithMcC]

I honestly hope that either this never comes to fruition or it's only ever voluntary (and doesn't restrict you if you don't do it). I've never done a Covid test on myself as yet, but as I have very sensitive gastric reflexes and the fact you have to place the swab that far down your throat and up your nose, I know it would make me want to throw up each time I would need to do it. The thought of throwing up every time does not fill me with glee. It actually got me rather worried when I saw pamphlets at work regarding doing this kind of regular testing, but thankfully that so far is purely optional.

It makes me wonder what happened to the spit test they were trialling last year. While I still would prefer not needing to 'earn my right' to live by testing negative twice a week, I'd rather do spit tests than sticking swabs up my nose and down my throat.

I am with you on this, with a strong gag reflex and sinus issues. I have done one swab test and found it virtually impossible to swab my throat and very hard to do my nose.
I won't be repeating the experiment on myself!

 

[Gadget88]

I honestly hope that either this never comes to fruition or it's only ever voluntary (and doesn't restrict you if you don't do it). I've never done a Covid test on myself as yet, but as I have very sensitive gastric reflexes and the fact you have to place the swab that far down your throat and up your nose, I know it would make me want to throw up each time I would need to do it. The thought of throwing up every time does not fill me with glee. It actually got me rather worried when I saw pamphlets at work regarding doing this kind of regular testing, but thankfully that so far is purely optional.

It makes me wonder what happened to the spit test they were trialling last year. While I still would prefer not needing to 'earn my right' to live by testing negative twice a week, I'd rather do spit tests than sticking swabs up my nose and down my throat.

They sell the spit tests in Superdrug but they are very expensive.

 

[AlterEgo]

I appreciate that it's hard to stay positive, but this is why it's important to steer clear of constantly checking headlines and interviews. The Mary Ramsay interview was a good case in point..an absolute debacle and a lone voice not aligned to any government strategy that could be determined.

The Ramsay article was a real low point for scientific comms. It should not have happened.

 

[Silver Cobra]

They sell the spit tests in Superdrug but they are very expensive.

Figures. I was expecting either it was discontinued or it would be bloody expensive to get one.

That’s actually one aspect of the whole ‘have a vaccine certificate or test negative’ proposal for allowing large-scale events and certain hospitality to reopen. For those of us having to wait for the vaccine or can’t have the vaccine due to allergies and such, while tests remain to be the cost that they are (£120+ IIRC?), that unfairly adds a big extra cost to be able to attend those events or hospitality venues. I’m sure we’d have to pay for a test in those circumstances rather than the venue or the government/NHS offering them for free.

 

[nlogax]

The Ramsay article was a real low point for scientific comms. It should not have happened.

Quite, though I'm certain it'll not be the last example of leftfield idiocy we see in the news in coming days and weeks before the various government review dates. There's more of this bilge to come.

 

[Gadget88]

Figures. I was expecting either it was discontinued or it would be bloody expensive to get one.

That’s actually one aspect of the whole ‘have a vaccine certificate or test negative’ proposal for allowing large-scale events and certain hospitality to reopen. For those of us having to wait for the vaccine or can’t have the vaccine due to allergies and such, while tests remain to be the cost that they are (£120+ IIRC?), that unfairly adds a big extra cost to be able to attend those events or hospitality venues. I’m sure we’d have to pay for a test in those circumstances rather than the venue or the government/NHS offering them for free.

That’s the issue if testing is expensive I would have to consider how many holidays or events I go to. Surely wouldn’t be good for the economy.

 

[LAX54]

Has it been proven that 'large gatherings' actually increase the figures by a great number? you would expect some type of infection increase from any gathering of bodies or is it..well there were so many people, it must have had a very large county / country impact.

 

[Gadget88]

Has it been proven that 'large gatherings' actually increase the figures by a great number? you would expect some type of infection increase from any gathering of bodies or is it..well there were so many people, it must have had a very large county / country impact.

They say transmission outside is low so surely large events can go ahead maybe need more caution for indoor ones but lots could go ahead this summer outside surely? Euros? Reading and Leeds festival?

 

[Cdd89]

Has it been proven that 'large gatherings' actually increase the figures by a great number? you would expect some type of infection increase from any gathering of bodies

The related thing I’ve wondered is, even if large events do cause an increase, people don’t go to concerts etc every single night. Perhaps the upward pressure on R could have just be accepted and ignored on the basis that it might be high impact but low frequency.

 

[WelshBluebird]

people don’t go to concerts etc every single night.

Before COVID I was at a stuffy sweaty indoor gig with little ventilation at least 3 or 4 nights of the week. Very much the perfect environment for COVID to spread. Though I very much accept that I am the minority of the general public haha (it is quite interesting at larger gigs of more popular bands you can absolutely see who in the crowd regularly goes to gigs and those who don't just through how they behave!).

 

[Domh245]

Not sure if it's been mentioned here before, but for all people point to testing as an alternative to proof of vaccination, in addition to the cost, there's the risk of you returning a positive test and losing whatever you're booked on (whereas anyone who's had the vaccine and is a bit sniffly would be free to go regardless) - I can't see many young people, still waiting for their vaccine, booking tickets for things when there's every chance that 2 days beforehand they find out they can't go (and of course, won't be able to buy tickets for things with on short notice either!)

 

[LAX54]

Before COVID I was at a stuffy sweaty indoor gig with little ventilation at least 3 or 4 nights of the week. Very much the perfect environment for COVID to spread. Though I very much accept that I am the minority of the general public haha (it is quite interesting at larger gigs of more popular bands you can absolutely see who in the crowd regularly goes to gigs and those who don't just through how they behave!).

Did you catch any nasty, or even non nasty illness at these events on a regular basis ?

 

[ainsworth74]

My understanding, at the moment, is that events which take place purely outdoors are very unlikely to lead to significant (or even noticeable) levels of transmission. For instance the pictures last summer of crowded beaches or the BLM protests no doubt saw some transmission but not enough to really break through the background of the then low levels. The problem is with events which are technically outdoors but have an indoor element. I think the classic example is the Cheltenham festival just before Lockdown One. Whilst the crowds on the terraces probably didn't transmit the virus much, the crowds in the bars probably did. So it's designing your outdoor event to ensure that it is an outdoor event (rather than one where the main action is outdoors but all the ancillary support stuff is indoors) is probably the key thing. I would imagine that's the problem that sports venues have. Whilst everyone sat outside watching people doing creative things with various shapes of ball is probably very low risk in terms of transmission, going to the bar, the toilet or grabbing a disappointing pie are all things which tend to take place indoors in most big stadiums.

Hopefully though by the time we get to the end of May and into June there will have been so much vaccine distributed that it won't be relevant anymore anyway!

 

[Cdd89]

For instance the pictures last summer of crowded beaches or the BLM protests no doubt saw some transmission but not enough to really break through the background of the then low levels.

Pedantic point, but I’d question whether such activity has a fixed effect that would be more obvious during periods of low transmission than during high ones. I think it would be equally noticeable (or non noticeable) during periods of high transmission as during periods of low transmissions.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Did you catch any nasty, or even non nasty illness at these events on a regular basis ?

I've absolutely got less random colds / sniffles etc over the last 12 months but I don't think there's any one thing to pin that on to be honest!
As for the inevitable comparison you are presumably trying to make - most other illnesses like flu that could be realistically transmitted in that environment generally aren't as infectious as COVID is.

My understanding, at the moment, is that events which take place purely outdoors are very unlikely to lead to significant (or even noticeable) levels of transmission. For instance the pictures last summer of crowded beaches or the BLM protests no doubt saw some transmission but not enough to really break through the background of the then low levels. The problem is with events which are technically outdoors but have an indoor element. I think the classic example is the Cheltenham festival just before Lockdown One. Whilst the crowds on the terraces probably didn't transmit the virus much, the crowds in the bars probably did. So it's designing your outdoor event to ensure that it is an outdoor event (rather than one where the main action is outdoors but all the ancillary support stuff is indoors) is probably the key thing. I would imagine that's the problem that sports venues have. Whilst everyone sat outside watching people doing creative things with various shapes of ball is probably very low risk in terms of transmission, going to the bar, the toilet or grabbing a disappointing pie are all things which tend to take place indoors in most big stadiums.

Hopefully though by the time we get to the end of May and into June there will have been so much vaccine distributed that it won't be relevant anymore anyway!

To be fair, there is a pretty big difference between something like an outdoor 3 day music festival where people will be packed together for long periods of time, where some of the stages are in quasi indoor structures like tents etc, and where hygiene lets say isn't the best, compared with what we saw with people at beaches where whilst they looked busy, actually if you were on them people generally were trying to spread themselves out from other groups.
Although I do agree with the rest of what you have said!

 

[jumble]

Agreed, I think some venues will want a negative test result, but other than that even if the government does succeed in passing it through most pubs and restaurants will ignore it, they’ll want as much custom as possible and won’t bite the hand that literally feeds them, and judging by the sheer number of those who went on yesterday’s March in London, it’ll definitely be a hard sell.

A friend of mine in Israel who hasn’t been vaccinated has told me that some venues are already being lax with the rules, first unvaccinated weren’t allowed in and just weeks later they are now allowed to sit in a “outdoor area” which is basically a tarpaulin tent attached to the indoor section of the restaurant and vaccinated people can sit amongst the unvaccinated if they so wish.

This means that venues care more about money than whether someone has had a vaccine or not, because either all, both have money and money has always spoken loudest.

So I think this will go down faster than a lead balloon

Spoons had Track and Trace checkers on the door for a few weeks but they soon vanished
Asda had Covid Marshals on the doors for a few weeks handing out masks who also disappeared without trace
I am not clear what will happen if someone in the queue for the pub or whatever starts a lengthy debate with security holding up everyone behind them from entering.

 

[NorthKent1989]

Spoons had Track and Trace checkers on the door for a few weeks but they soon vanished
Asda had Covid Marshals on the doors for a few weeks handing out masks who also disappeared without trace
I am not clear what will happen if someone in the queue for the pub or whatever starts a lengthy debate with security holding up everyone behind them from entering.

Having walked by enough Weatherspoons for on a Friday night pre Covid, 9 times out of ten there was always an argument with the doorman in which half the time the doorman gave up in the end so what you say is entirely correct

 

[Silver Cobra]

Asda had Covid Marshals on the doors for a few weeks handing out masks who also disappeared without trace

Asda still have the COVID marshals, but they now just spend their time walking around the store rather than hanging around near the front door.

 

[PTSNEEDED2021]

If people reject the vaccine and still want to enter work or visit places that want you to have had one then an alternative is what's going on at schools. But they pay for Covid tests and need to provide a negative one prior to attending or visiting.

You visit a pub then a recent negative test is needed, similar to I.D. If you want to go regularly then you'll need to be tested a minimum twice a week at your own expense. School kids have to do it.