Contactless Card Blocked By Stagecoach

[lxfe_mxtterz]

Hi all.

I recently purchased a "StagecoachSmart" card as this offers better value for money on a journey I make regularly.

Unfortunately, the area this card covers is very limited, meaning I still have to buy paper tickets (using contactless payment) for journeys outside of this area.

Prior to purchasing my smart card, I used contactless payment for every journey I made and had no problems whatsoever.

The day after my purchase (whilst waiting for my smart card to be delivered), however, I went to pay for my bus fare as usual with my contactless card - but it was declined; I had to pay using cash.

The driver informed me that my contactless card may have been "blocked", however I brushed this off as a faulty ticket machine as my card was (and still is) working fine with other bus operators, in shops, on vending machines, etc.

Yesterday, I had to make a journey to a town outside the smart card area, and lo and behold, my payment was rejected again.

Phoned the bank this morning and they were pretty useless. Couldn't find anything wrong with my card and didn't suggest any steps I could take to solve the issue.

Anybody else experienced the same problem? If so, how did you solve it?

Any reason why my card may have been blocked?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Have you had a payment for a bus ticket declined for any reason?

 

[lxfe_mxtterz]

Have you had a payment for a bus ticket declined for any reason?

No, not that I'm aware of. Strangely, this only started after I purchased my smart card online.

 

[Bletchleyite]

No, not that I'm aware of. Strangely, this only started after I purchased my smart card online.

Hmm. Is the card attached to the smart card in some way, e.g. to automatically credit it? Might be that you can't then use it for traditional contactless payment?

Or maybe it's a coincidence.

 

[Ken H]

Hi all.

I recently purchased a "StagecoachSmart" card as this offers better value for money on a journey I make regularly.

Unfortunately, the area this card covers is very limited, meaning I still have to buy paper tickets (using contactless payment) for journeys outside of this area.

Prior to purchasing my smart card, I used contactless payment for every journey I made and had no problems whatsoever.

The day after my purchase (whilst waiting for my smart card to be delivered), however, I went to pay for my bus fare as usual with my contactless card - but it was declined; I had to pay using cash.

The driver informed me that my contactless card may have been "blocked", however I brushed this off as a faulty ticket machine as my card was (and still is) working fine with other bus operators, in shops, on vending machines, etc.

Yesterday, I had to make a journey to a town outside the smart card area, and lo and behold, my payment was rejected again.

Phoned the bank this morning and they were pretty useless. Couldn't find anything wrong with my card and didn't suggest any steps I could take to solve the issue.

Anybody else experienced the same problem? If so, how did you solve it?

Any reason why my card may have been blocked?

Thanks in advance.

I dont believe a bank would block your card for one supplier only. A card either completely blocked or its Ok. You may get a contactless payment declined if you havent entered your pin for a while. To unblock you just have to enter your pin somewhere or use a cash machine. The driver should have seen this and asked you to do chip and pin (Can stagecoach buses do that? if not, why not?), and all would have been well.

or maybe Stagecoach have blocked your card because you have a StagecoachSmart. How they would do that I dont know. Its would be against PCI* regulations to load a file of blocked CC numbers to ticket machines, as storage of card numbers should be on an encrypted server.

*PCI is 'Payment card industry' - they set standards for card processing.

 

[route101]

Not sure if this relates, recently my bank card is unable to be used in some ATMs to withdraw cash.

 

[221129]

Can stagecoach buses do that? if not, why not?

No. There is no facility for Chip and Pin on most (any?) buses.

 

[lxfe_mxtterz]

Hmm. Is the card attached to the smart card in some way, e.g. to automatically credit it? Might be that you can't then use it for traditional contactless payment?

Or maybe it's a coincidence.

The only attachment is that I used my bank card to purchase my smart card (specifically a four-week megarider). If that's the case, then it's a bit silly really if people want to travel outside the smart card area.

I dont believe a bank would block your card for one supplier only. A card either completely blocked or its Ok. You may get a contactless payment declined if you havent entered your pin for a while. To unblock you just have to enter your pin somewhere or use a cash machine. The driver should have seen this and asked you to do chip and pin (Can stagecoach buses do that? if not, why not?), and all would have been well.

or maybe Stagecoach have blocked your card because you have a StagecoachSmart. How they would do that I dont know. Its would be against PCI* regulations to load a file of blocked CC numbers to ticket machines, as storage of card numbers should be on an encrypted server.

*PCI is 'Payment card industry' - they set standards for card processing.

The point you make about PINs crossed my mind also, however my contactless card works fine with other bus operators, so I'm not too sure.

Alas, I never did test it out and enter my PIN somewhere, but I suppose I'll give it a go and see what happens. Thanks.

 

[221129]

It sounds like Stagecoach have blacklisted the card for some reason.

If that's the case

It's very unlikely to be the case.

 

[Ken H]

No. There is no facility for Chip and Pin on most (any?) buses.

That is an appalling lack. Suddenly through no fault of your own, you cant pay your fare.

 

[221129]

that is an appalling lack

It really isn't.

 

[skyhigh]

that is an appalling lack. Suddenly through no fault of your own, you cant pay your fare.

Same situation with contactless on TfL - no way you can enter a PIN. I believe it uses a special 'transit' mode - so the company takes the risk (i.e. if the payment fails they have to blacklist the card to stop it being accepted) and your card shouldn't be declined due to PIN entry requirements because the system is clever enough to know it's not possible to verify a PIN.

It's possible the card has been blacklisted by the company for some reason. You'll probably get a better chance of resolving the issue by contacting the bus operator rather than your bank, as it doesn't sound like a bank issue.

It's clearly possible to blacklist cards as TfL do it, but I'm not sure how they do.

 

[Ken H]

Same situation with contactless on TfL - no way you can enter a PIN. I believe it uses a special 'transit' mode - so the company takes the risk (i.e. if the payment fails they have to blacklist the card to stop it being accepted) and your card shouldn't be declined due to PIN entry requirements because the system is clever enough to know it's not possible to verify a PIN.

It's possible the card has been blacklisted by the company for some reason. You'll probably get a better chance of resolving the issue by contacting the bus operator rather than your bank, as it doesn't sound like a bank issue.

But how do you blacklist a card on all the companies ticket machines? You cant hold unencrypted card numbers except on a secure server. So for every card transaction the ticket machine would have to contact the main computer.

 

[py_megapixel]

that is an appalling lack. Suddenly through no fault of your own, you cant pay your fare.

It really isn't.

Well, if it's leading to people being left behind by the bus because their card doesn't work, then it is. However, I've done quite a significant number of journeys on contactless-enabled buses, and incredibly rarely if ever seen anyone unable to board because of a declined card, so I don't think it's really a massive issue.

I think I read that there is some facility whereby a contactless payment terminal can declare itself unable to accept cards by chip-and-PIN - which, presumably, Stagecoach's ticket machines should be doing if they can - and if it does, the card issuer will defer any PIN checks which would have been required until the next transaction. I might be making that up though.

but how do you blacklist a card on all the companies ticket machines? You cant hold unencrypted card numbers except on a secure server. So for every card transaction the ticket machine would have to contact the main computer.

I would assume that you can make a cryptographic hash of the card numbers and store that, then whenever someone touches their card you perform the same hash function and if the hashes match then the original card numbers must also have matched.
Disclaimer: I am not a cyber-security expert and in reality it could work completely different to that!

 

[221129]

Well, if it's leading to people being left behind by the bus because their card doesn't work

I've seen no evidence of this being the case?

 

[py_megapixel]

I've seen no evidence of this being the case?

If you read the rest of the line you've just quoted, then you'll see that I agree with you on that...

 

[mattdickinson]

According to Stagecoach,

Your card may be blocked for a number of reasons.

If you card has been declined, it will appear on our decline list for 45 days, and if you card is declined three times, it will be permanently denied.

If your card appears on our decline list, it won’t be accepted. You’re responsible for contacting your bank to clear any restrictions on the card. Please allow up to 7 days for this message to reach all of our ticket machines.

 

[Robertj21a]

that is an appalling lack. Suddenly through no fault of your own, you cant pay your fare.

No it isn't. You don't need a PIN to buy anything on a bus. If the card doesn't work it will be for some other reason.

 

[Bletchleyite]

or maybe Stagecoach have blocked your card because you have a StagecoachSmart. How they would do that I dont know. Its would be against PCI* regulations to load a file of blocked CC numbers to ticket machines, as storage of card numbers should be on an encrypted server.

I don't see why it would be an issue to load ticket machines with a one-way hash of blocked card numbers, though, which is how I'd do it if I was implementing it. They do need a means of blocking errant (repeatedly declined) cards.

Indeed, this may provide some sort of explanation - it's possible that two cards could give the same one-way hash, so someone else's card being blocked could have inadvertently blocked yours.

I'd get onto Stagecoach customer services and ask them.

 

[Spsf3232]

How they work is when you tap your card, the machine will then connect to the payment server via the Internet connection to clear payment. There is a few things that can go wrong to decline the transaction though, If the area your in has bad phone signal then that can affect the ticket machine connecting to the payment server, thus leading to a decline. Another one thing that can go wrong is your bank declines the transaction for multiple reasons though the main one is usually pin verification required. When you use contactless payment multiple times your bank will then ask for pin verification to confirm you are authorisation the payment. This is okay in most situations but on a bus there is no method for pin authentication so the card is declined with no other option. You could use your card in a shop before hand with your Pin which should clear up this authorisation issue. There could be other reasons like card or bank not being supported or card being blacklisted due to outstanding payments however would imagine that to be very unlikely.

 

[221129]

How they work is when you tap your card, the machine will then connect to the payment server via the Internet connection to clear payment. There is a few things that can go wrong to decline the transaction though, If the area your in has bad phone signal then that can effect the ticket machine connecting to the payment server leading to a decline. Another one thing that can go wrong is your bank declines the transaction for multiple reasons though the main one is usually pin verification required. When you use contactless payment multiple times your bank will then ask for pin verification to confirm you are authorisation the payment. This is okay in most situations but on a bus there is no method for pin authentication so the card is declined with no other option. You could use your card in a shop before hand with your Pin which should clear up this authorisation issue. There could be other reasons like card or bank not being supported or card being blacklisted due to outstanding payments however would imagine that to be very unlikely.

Most buses don't authorise there and then, it gets done later in the day.

As already pointed out the PIN issue shouldn't be a problem either as those transactions are flagged as no PIN possible.

The most likely cause of the problem in the OP is that the card has been blacklisted for some reason. Either as an error or for some other reason.

 

[Citistar]

No. There is no facility for Chip and Pin on most (any?) buses.

One? We use a SumUp 3G machine which provides the Chip & Pin option as well as contactless. It's a very flexible machine and the fees are tiny. The only drawback with it is that it goes to sleep a bit too quickly, then needs to reconnect to the network when it wakes up which takes ~60s before it will process a transaction.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Most buses don't authorise there and then, it gets done later in the day.

Certainly Arriva's Ticketer machines do it on the spot. However (based on when Monzo flags it up to me) it doesn't appear to be done while you're stood at the machine, it's done as soon as possible afterwards, presumably on the basis that if it does decline the driver can call you back. It's also always for £0.10 and not the actual fare.

 

[GusB]

As we have established that the card works in other locations it would seem to be an issue with Stagecoach. @lxfe_mxtterz , as has been suggested above, your initial course of action should be to contact Stagecoach to see if they can provide an explanation.

I shall close the thread for now but please report this post and ask for it to be re-opened if and when you do receive a reply regarding your issue.