Entire 800/801/802 fleet stood down for safety checks

[Ianno87]

So making the passengers pay for the railway’s failure becomes acceptable then?
This IS the railway attitude it seems.

If they can't travel, refunds are available. There is no better solution available at this point in time (no matter how much you seem to think there is)

 

[800001]

Or some could be OOU for regular maintenance. 800209 did make an appearance yesterday AFAIK along with 800101. However 800101 was swapped with 801211 at Doncaster.

I believe they now have the majority of their fleet back with only two not serviceable. Hull Trains have their whole fleet back.

Apologies, you are correct, some are on maintenance. 800101 does not have the cracks.

 

[55002]

I should rephrase my initial post. The units I posted are units with cracks and also under going maintenance. 800101 is not one of the units with cracks.
Apologies for confusion.

No problem, your posts provide fantastic info..

 

[robbeech]

If they can't travel, refunds are available. There is no better solution available at this point in time (no matter how much you seem to think there is)

There isn’t a more profitable solution at this point. We’ve seen a better solution implemented by LNER. Why does it have to be a week? Why can’t it be until the issue is fixed? Well, the answer is clear, it’s less profitable.

you’d have to be a fool to think all the passengers can get where they’re going by bus or taxi, and it would be daft to expect GWR to attempt to do that. But their ticket restrictions are making it worse for them, and of course much worse for their passengers.

it’s a simple passenger focussed solution, anyone who already holds a ticket for anytime this week can use it on any service between their origin and destination this week, or any time until the service returns to normal. Rebooking seats where applicable It’s not difficult to implement, and it ensures passengers that NEED to travel today have a better chance of being able to, and those passengers who don’t need to travel can go next weekend instead for the same price that they’ve already paid. This is passenger focussed but it isn’t as profitable as telling passengers to buy new tickets. Rather unsurprising there aren’t many advances left on services next weekend so everyone is buying SVRs, those stranded until tomorrow morning will have to buy an SOR. People trying to refund advances are being told they have to wait until the time has passed and the service is definitely cancelled before they can get a refund. People with flexible tickets are being charged a £10 admin fee to refund or change their ticket for another day because there was an opportunity to use the ticket on the 1 train that actually ran, despite it being full. People with through tickets from unaffected areas on the network are refused refund outright. People who get to London on these tickets and then can go no further are being refused a refund because they’ve started to travel and are not allowed to use their ticket to return to their origin forcing them to buy a new ticket just to get home, which can’t be refunded because they’ve used it. It’s ALL additional revenue for the railway caused by the railway letting passengers down.

 

[D365]

Is that not a screen grab of one of the photo's from last month's NIR for the yaw damper bracket? The issue that has grounded the fleets is being reported as cracks in the jacking point/lifting pocket, a different - but possibly related - issue.

Anyone posting photo's needs to be very careful to ensure that they are correct as the media view this website.

Didn’t realise that a photo had been attached to said NIR, I’ll have to check it again.

In any case you make a very valid point.

 

[RPI]

Cross-country are helping out today, just seen a memo, as follows:

1V50 Leeds-Bristol is extended to Plymouth
1V54 Newcastle- Bristol extended to Plymouth
1Z62 1844 Bristol - Plymouth
1C25 1939 Bristol - Plymouth

Up direction

1S49 0933 Penzance - Newcastle double voyager from Plymouth

1S53 15:30 Bristol - Edinburgh starting Plymouth 13:27

1Z63 15:27 Plymouth - Bristol

1773 17:27 Plymouth - Bristol

All have the same stopping pattern, Taunton - Tiverton PW - Exeter SD - Newton Abbot - Totnes or reverse

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

I just wanted to give my thanks to GWR staff who may read this. I had been hesitant, but I decided 'challenge accepted' and thanks to our good friend the 387, mission accomplished. For those of you heading further west than Didcot the options don't look great I'm afraid, but there are a few 80x's on duty now by the looks of it. From a selfish point of view, and I appreciate this might not be a popular opinion on here, I hope that if this becomes a longer term problem that a way is found to send the 387s west of Didcot rather than blocking up the lines with slow 47/57s.

That's a very good opinion. I think 4 coaches on some services to and from Didcot and London are doable - then run 8 coaches to and from Cardiff with maybe a few 12's in the peak?

 

[father_jack]

Maybe this question needs to be asked and this is quite similar to the covid "lockdown" travel scenarios- "Do you really need to travel ?".

Insofar as how many journeys on a normal day need to be undertaken. I bet at 0800 on any weekday morning there are people travelling who never need to, not even ones who could travel later.

Back to yesterday there were still people travelling to go to Primark or to sit in wet pub gardens although they were told not to travel. When it was put to them, yes there is a train to where they wanted to go now but that they could not be guarnateed they still wanted day returns. (Some clever bloke turned off the TVMs at one station I hear.........)

 

[Wallsendmag]

There isn’t a more profitable solution at this point. We’ve seen a better solution implemented by LNER. Why does it have to be a week? Why can’t it be until the issue is fixed? Well, the answer is clear, it’s less profitable.

you’d have to be a fool to think all the passengers can get where they’re going by bus or taxi, and it would be daft to expect GWR to attempt to do that. But their ticket restrictions are making it worse for them, and of course much worse for their passengers.

it’s a simple passenger focussed solution, anyone who already holds a ticket for anytime this week can use it on any service between their origin and destination this week, or any time until the service returns to normal. Rebooking seats where applicable It’s not difficult to implement, and it ensures passengers that NEED to travel today have a better chance of being able to, and those passengers who don’t need to travel can go next weekend instead for the same price that they’ve already paid. This is passenger focussed but it isn’t as profitable as telling passengers to buy new tickets. Rather unsurprising there aren’t many advances left on services next weekend so everyone is buying SVRs, those stranded until tomorrow morning will have to buy an SOR. People trying to refund advances are being told they have to wait until the time has passed and the service is definitely cancelled before they can get a refund. People with flexible tickets are being charged a £10 admin fee to refund or change their ticket for another day because there was an opportunity to use the ticket on the 1 train that actually ran, despite it being full. People with through tickets from unaffected areas on the network are refused refund outright. People who get to London on these tickets and then can go no further are being refused a refund because they’ve started to travel and are not allowed to use their ticket to return to their origin forcing them to buy a new ticket just to get home, which can’t be refunded because they’ve used it. It’s ALL additional revenue for the railway caused by the railway letting passengers down.

It's a week because the vast majority of LNER services are runing this from today onwards.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

When I was doing my chartership one of my mentors was a very experienced, very well respected, fleet manager who went on to become a TOC ED before he retired.
He gave me three very sage, and in this case apposite, mantras by which to work - as a rolling stock engineer - by.

1. Don't go looking for a problem until you know what you are going to do when you find it.
2. Never assume you've got one problem.
3. Only ground a fleet if you know how you are going to put them back in to service, if you ground them without knowing how to get them back into service it'll be the end of your career in the railway.

Given he'd had to ground two large fleets in his career I took it that he knew of what he spoke....

Sound advice.
The grounding of the fleet yesterday was on the instruction of Agility/Hitachi, the fleet owners and maintainers.
The reputation at stake is that of the manufacturer, not the TOCs (although the latter will take most of the flak, and have to sort out a contingency plan).
The Hitachi Rail CEO (Andrew Barr) apologised directly on TV yesterday, and promised to get the fleet back as soon as possible (without giving any idea of timescale).
He worked for LU, GNER, Bombardier and the SRA before joining Hitachi (initially as Head of Maintenance), so will know how the UK railway works.
I guess he and his depot engineers will be feeling the pressure today.
At least the fault was found before any serious incident on the live railway.

 

[AdamWW]

If they can't travel, refunds are available. There is no better solution available at this point in time (no matter how much you seem to think there is)

Yes there is!

GWR could permit people to use Advance tickets later. They don't have to know now when that "later" will be, so long as they keep people updated (and permit a refund at any point).

By only offering refunds and requiring people to pay whatever the going price is when travel resumes, they are putting people out of pocket for something that isn't their fault and definititely is the industry's fault.

If it's anything like my TOC, you are bubbled with the other person, PCR test to enter the bubble and regular lateral flow tests to remain in it. I imagine GWR will be along the same lines, certainly won't be a free for all. People can meet indoors for work but employers should be making the environment as covid-safe as possible. I think though that you are suggesting in a more social way so no you can't. 17th May is when you you will be able to meet indoors.

Employers certainly should be making environments as "Covid-safe" as possible. However, the scheme described above seems to be a rather extreme approach. Certainly a huge amount more cautious than anything I've come across myself at work, or what you will see if you visit a shop or pub.

From a practical point of view, the risk of contracting Covid is really rather low at the moment.

 

[Wallsendmag]

(Some clever bloke turned off the TVMs at one station I hear.........)

A luxury we don't have as we share every station with another operator.

 

[nedchester]

If they can't travel, refunds are available. There is no better solution available at this point in time (no matter how much you seem to think there is)

For most routes there are ways of getting to your destination via various alternative routes. Tickets should be valid via any route to get you to your destination.

 

[matacaster]

You make your own arrangements and pay for it yourself and that is the end of the matter.

With them not allowing travel on advanced tickets at a later date forcing everyone to refund and buy more expensive flexible tickets, you do have to question where GWR will sit financially after this.

It’s a political nightmare though. I would think if operators are not footing the Bill they’d sooner not run a service than run an HST again.

Who will make them do it? They say no, you escalate it to who? Their boss, who will say no? One of the regulators funded by them who will say no? The contractual passenger’s rights are not worth the paper they’re written on. They don’t have to stick to them like the passenger does. Meanwhile they are doing what they can to run a service.

Same way as it has worked for years with short forms I guess. If you were reserved in that bit that’s missing, tough. The only difference is it might be a case of tough stay at home rather then tough stand up for 3 hours if they’re over socially distanced capacity, although there’s been a couple of full and standing photos kicking around today.

I think you’ll find you’ll be waiting, being stuck for aslong as they say you’re stuck if you don’t find and fund your own alternative. Sorry.

Have you been hibernating for the last 10+ years? This is how it has worked with old stock still in use, and how it has worked to date.

I don't sleep at all well, but make up for. It with a bad memory and inattention!

 

[robbeech]

It's a week because the vast majority of LNER services are runing this from today onwards.

It’s a week now, but I’ve no doubt that if disruption continued for LNER they’d happily extend that and/or allow other relaxation of restrictions. Other operators could start with a week, and see how things are during that week, by which point most people will have either travelled, rearranged their travel or not bothered and be part way to getting a refund. Operators like GWR have taken the most revenue focussed approach, even if they haven’t done this deliberately it is clear they haven’t taken the most passenger focussed approach

 

[Ianno87]

Yes there is!

GWR could permit people to use Advance tickets later. They don't have to know now when that "later" will be, so long as they keep people updated (and permit a refund at any point).

By only offering refunds and requiring people to pay whatever the going price is when travel resumes, they are putting people out of pocket for something that isn't their fault and definititely is the industry's fault.

As has been pointed out repeatedly, there's no guarantee of a half-decent GWR service all week to carry these passengers.

No point in giving false hope, that would be contemptuous.

 

[matacaster]

I’d say that’s more than a crack!!!!!!

Oh dear! One suspects that one or two at Hitachi may be filling in CVs?

 

[Bikeman78]

Yes it is, so no there isn’t.



No guards sign the traction, company wide. DOO agreement prevents geographical extension of DOO beyond current limit (Didcot) and will not be changed. Only a very tiny number of drivers sign the route all the way to Bristol Parkway AND the traction - too few to be practical. Platform validation, dispatch risk assessments and so on. Gauge clearance etc.

I'd expect all that could be overcome but how long would it take? How long did it take for WAGN/GNER to start running 317s to Leeds in 1998 after the Sandy derailment? Bearing in mind that WAGN was DOO (at least I think it was by then) so no guards would sign 317s.

 

[Watershed]

I believe they now have the majority of their fleet back with only two not serviceable.

Four. Fortunately that shouldn't mean any cancellations, just a reduced number of spares

 

[chinnocksteve]

So much for “friction stir welding” or is it not the existing welds which have failed??

 

[HamworthyGoods]

I'd expect all that could be overcome but how long would it take? How long did it take for WAGN/GNER to start running 317s to Leeds in 1998 after the Sandy derailment? Bearing in mind that WAGN was DOO (at least I think it was by then) so no guards would sign 317s.

Safety standards were somewhat different then and social distancing/bubbling didn’t apply.

Don’t forget until May 17th it’s not so easy to have two people from different companies (say a guard and a pilot guard) working together in an enclosed space.

 

[Dai Corner]

It’s a week now, but I’ve no doubt that if disruption continued for LNER they’d happily extend that and/or allow other relaxation of restrictions. Other operators could start with a week, and see how things are during that week, by which point most people will have either travelled, rearranged their travel or not bothered and be part way to getting a refund. Operators like GWR have taken the most revenue focussed approach, even if they haven’t done this deliberately it is clear they haven’t taken the most passenger focussed approach

Aren't the Government taking the revenue risk during the pandemic and paying TOCs a flat fee for running the trains?

 

[AdamWW]

As has been pointed out repeatedly, there's no guarantee of a half-decent GWR service all week to carry these passengers.

No point in giving false hope, that would be contemptuous

Are you attempting to justify GWR's approach?

There are going to be trains next week. Not many, but some.

There will be people who NEED to use them.

Some of them will have had Advance tickets.

Why on earth should they be forced to pay extra just to get home or wherever they need to be?

Some people can put their trips off until later. Why does it have to be "You can use your ticket next week" or nothing?

Safety standards were somewhat different then and social distancing/bubbling didn’t apply.

Don’t forget until May 17th it’s not so easy to have two people from different companies (say a guard and a pilot guard) working together in an enclosed space.

The rules on people in cabs are whatever the industry has decided to do, not from Government Covid regulations.

Whatever happens on May 17th has nothing directly to do with what people do at work, though I suppose it might then prompt a re-consideration of self-imposed rules.

 

[CBlue]

Do some people really think that Mark Hopwood is sat in a big leather chair, stroking a cat, saying "I don't want to run any trains, mwahahaha. That'll annoy them"

It's really quite childish.

There are a vocal group on here who seem to think it's all a big conspiracy at work by the industry as a whole, simply to annoy just them and other enthusiasts by removing trains they like from service (HST's, 442's, etc...)

 

[LordCreed]

Yes there is!

GWR could permit people to use Advance tickets later. They don't have to know now when that "later" will be, so long as they keep people updated (and permit a refund at any point).

By only offering refunds and requiring people to pay whatever the going price is when travel resumes, they are putting people out of pocket for something that isn't their fault and definititely is the industry's fault.

With no end date in sight, that would be completely pointless. "You can use your tickets at a later date, but we have no clue when that will be".

The number of passengers that will decide a week later that they still want to make the trip is very, very minimal.

 

[Cameron McNutt]

Here come the memes...

Source: https://twitter.com/JonsBusPics/status/1391124105877987330?s=19

 

[py_megapixel]

Unless there's some reason the GWML track is much worse than the EC, the difference in availability between the two operators does seem to suggest how bad it is correlates with how long the unit has been in service - IIRC LNER didn't even start operating theirs until GWR had almost finished the introduction. Hull Trains were even later and they're back to normal

 

[Robertj21a]

Do some people really think that Mark Hopwood is sat in a big leather chair, stroking a cat, saying "I don't want to run any trains, mwahahaha. That'll annoy them"

It's really quite childish.

There's been rather a lot of childish, or plain silly, comments on this thread. Many thanks to those posting actual facts.

 

[Watershed]

So I'm guessing those loco hauled charters haven't materialised...? No surprises there!

 

[Tempest3K]

There are a vocal group on here who seem to think it's all a big conspiracy at work by the industry as a whole, simply to annoy just them and other enthusiasts by removing trains they like from service (HST's, 442's, etc...)

No, but he might be looking at a way to get Class 50 onto a service