Entire 800/801/802 fleet stood down for safety checks

[sonic2009]

Is there any updates on how LNER are doing with their Azumas? There was a post yesterday saying how many they had out of traffic etc.

 

[Failed Unit]

Is there any updates on how LNER are doing with their Azumas? There was a post yesterday saying how many they had out of traffic etc.

Most services using bi-modes cancelled again. But they are making positiv noises about the weekend.

 

[Merle Haggard]

Delay to one of the Plymouth to Bristol TM Castle runs introduced today, signaller routed train towards the Berks and Hants, poor driver had to accept the route rather than putting anchors down and everyone on board ending up in the first coach......

Realtime Trains - 1A76 0604 Penzance to Bristol Temple Meads

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

(Sorry mods, link not practical to paste)

I've been on a Virgin WC down Edinburgh routed to Glasgow at Carstairs and also an East Coast drag that should have gone Lincoln - Newark (station call) - Doncaster but was routed straight on at West Holmes. In both cases there was no drama, we just glided to a halt and, after a delay, set back. In the latter case, driver to signaller conversation could have been made personally - we stopped quite close to the SCC

 

[CommuterPigeon]

Is there any updates on how LNER are doing with their Azumas? There was a post yesterday saying how many they had out of traffic etc.

Currently have 0 9-car bi-modes, 4 5-car bi-modes, 8 5-car electrics and 19 9-car electrics available. Rumours are they're expecting most of the fleet to be back in service by the weekend.

 

[sonic2009]

Most services using bi-modes cancelled again. But they are making positiv noises about the weekend.

Currently have 0 9-car bi-modes, 4 5-car bi-modes, 8 5-car electrics and 19 9-car electrics available. Rumours are they're expecting most of the fleet to be back in service by the weekend.

Thanks both, hoping to not have to do 2 Rail Replacements on Sunday

 

[Stathern Jc]

This is something I have been thinking about, too. If the body needs to be lifted to allow proper access for welding the cracks around these Jacking Pockets, isn't that going to be problematic?

Another thought.

The lifting jacks themselves will most likely need to be out of the way to give clear access for welding around the jacking points.
Also, I wouldn't have thought it good practice to weld a part under load. Even with modern welding technology I imagine that could still risk some distortion and / or lock stresses in to the areas affected, with long term (or maybe not such long term?) implications for a recurrence of this or a similar problem.

 

[Annetts key]

As they have not yet worked out how to effect repairs yet...

 

[HST274]

Is there any updates on how LNER are doing with their Azumas? There was a post yesterday saying how many they had out of traffic etc.

Currently have 0 9-car bi-modes, 4 5-car bi-modes, 8 5-car electrics and 19 9-car electrics available. Rumours are they're expecting most of the fleet to be back in service by the weekend.

Anyone know the same about GWR?

 

[rebmcr]

Another thought.

The lifting jacks themselves will most likely need to be out of the way to give clear access for welding around the jacking points.
Also, I wouldn't have thought it good practice to weld a part under load. Even with modern welding technology I imagine that could still risk some distortion and / or lock stresses in to the areas affected, with long term (or maybe not such long term?) implications for a recurrence of this or a similar problem.

It will probably involve prop bogies, as used during construction.

 

[DanNCL]

Anyone know the same about GWR?

They have none available today. Both Reading - Newport diagrams are being worked by 166s.

 

[Roger B]

It will probably involve prop bogies, as used during construction.

At first glance there's something rather Darth Vaderish about its profile. Weren't the ill-fated GatEx Cl 460s nicknamed Darth Vaders before conversion into the 458/5s?

 

[PTtrainguy]

They have none available today. Both Reading - Newport diagrams are being worked by 166s.

I've reached out to their team on Twitter and it looks like the disruption will continue for the rest of this week and maybe even into next week. The poster who talked about things getting back to normal (after DfT discussion) by the weekend might have been wrong

 

[Apedlar12]

They have none available today. Both Reading - Newport diagrams are being worked by 166s.

I think they have one in use now (800006), this morning there was none to begin with, other diagram is being covered by 166215 as of right now I believe.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The Telegraph has waded in with its view of the Hitachi contract and how government (both sorts) have dealt with it.
The view broadly is that the government got what it specified (badly) and is as much at fault as Hitachi for the new travails.
How Hitachi's plan to replace Britain's train fleet went off the rails (msn.com)

I don't recognize this statement from Andrew Adonis about the Azuma introduction on the ECML:

"They [NR] had 10 years to get these signalling issues right," he said. "They'll be much more expensive to operate, they'll be slower, they'll have less capacity and hundreds of millions of pounds of public money has been wasted again."

I think he was actually referring to the GW electrification truncation and the consequent need to order more bi-modes for GWR instead of cheaper electric-only sets.

 

[nickswift99]

In the situation, can hardly blame timetable planners working at short notice for overlooking such headcode nuances.

One could argue it shows the railway trying very hard to restore services to the B&H (albeit subconsciously).

I'm amazed at how well individuals and organisations have coped with such a sudden massive change and, so far, this appears to be the only observable faux pas.

 

[father_jack]

And that is the signaller being led down a trap, 1A76 normally goes B and H. and the higher 1A** were introduced to show that they went that way. It is the same with the higher 1C** numbers on the down being via the B and H.

It is also an issue with Cogload not having any prior warning to the route being set wrong. A Preliminary Route Indicator would be ideal there.

In fairness though, it's not like the disruption is not known about.....

 

[LowLevel]

I've reached out to their team on Twitter and it looks like the disruption will continue for the rest of this week and maybe even into next week. The poster who talked about things getting back to normal (after DfT discussion) by the weekend might have been wrong

Another RailForums "I've asked on Twitter and they've told me "x" " moment

Stick to asking them train times or for a bike reservation. You'll get far better information here.

 

[800001]

I've reached out to their team on Twitter and it looks like the disruption will continue for the rest of this week and maybe even into next week. The poster who talked about things getting back to normal (after DfT discussion) by the weekend might have been wrong

That refers to lner who are aiming for majority of there trains back and to be able to run the covid timetable they had been running.

 

[PTtrainguy]

That refers to lner who are aiming for majority of there trains back and to be able to run the covid timetable they had been running.

I was referring to this comment:

Looks like 70 sets to be back in service on GWR later this week , enough to provide a near full service with a little additional 387 working.
So all these extra HST , mk3s mk2s etc may stand down!.

 

[43 302]

I was referring to this comment:

That comment which at the time of posting was the most recent and accurate information on this thread.

 

[800001]

That comment which at the time of posting was the most recent and accurate information on this thread.

I made a mistake and hadn't seen the comment, why do people then have to come back comments like this.
I'll keep quite on this post going forward

 

[Stathern Jc]

I'll keep quite on this post going forward

You've made a good number of contributions that have seemed to me to be useful and well informed.
Don't give up!

 

[Dan G]

Can anyone tell me how GWR are currently covering their network (or point me to the thread with that information)?

 

[irish_rail]

I've reached out to their team on Twitter and it looks like the disruption will continue for the rest of this week and maybe even into next week. The poster who talked about things getting back to normal (after DfT discussion) by the weekend might have been wrong

Twitter team will tell you the current score. They will not tell you discussions are taking place as we speak to get things more or less to normal by end of the week as nothing has yet been agreed (as far as I know).

 

[Steve Harris]

You've made a good number of contributions that have seemed to me to be useful and well informed.
Don't give up!

Ditto.

 

[Irascible]

Apologies, I get where you are coming from now.

Right now the trains that are still in service will be covered by a stand alone, specific, Risk Assessment for this scenario.

Qualified and competent engineers will have identified, based on what has been found and what is known about the fit/form/function of the affected parts of the train, the consequence - in engineering terms - of the cracks as they stand right now and also them progressing. These will then have been turned into operational hazards (derailment, collision, separation etc.). The likelihood and severity of the consequence of the hazard being realised will then have been calculated by specialist safety engineers, which when combining the likelihood and severity gives the overall risk rating. What will then be added to the risk assessment is what mitigating actions could be taken to either reduce the likelihood of the hazard being realised or the consequence of it being realised. And then the residual risk, after the mitigating actions are taken, is calculated.

The mitigating actions right now are the initial inspection, against a pass/fail criteria, and ongoing inspections to look for either new cracks or the progression of the existing cracks.

The residual risk will be considered by the holder of the certificate to operate trains ("The Safety Case), looking at the level of risk is imported by the cracks over and above the risk already accepted in operating the trains normally and if the combined total risk is still acceptable the trains can run.

The Risk Assessment will be constantly updated as more data emerges and a better understanding of rate of crack progression, root cause etc. comes to light. The Risk Assessment will remain in place until either the trains are repaired and returned to the approved configuration/design or until a modified design goes through a change approval process - which will be where compliance is demonstrated.

Excellent thanks, there's the other half. Nice to see that red tape hasn't completely obliterated any wiggle room. Presumably a standalone RA won't be valid forever, so there's incentive to get the job done properly ( or discover a show stopper too I suppose ).

--

Ironic that down here we have better connections to the North than London right now... take that, London-centric-ism! unfortunately current coach options to Weymouth/Bournemouth from the eastern side of Devon are extremely limited & expensive, so that isn't a practical car-less journey either.

 

[HST274]

They have none available today. Both Reading - Newport diagrams are being worked by 166s.

It started with only around 9 available then 5 then 3 then 2 now 0. Did those that remained then withdrawn develop cracks recently or just sneak past the tests? Or am I completely wrong

 

[185143]

It started with only around 9 available then 5 then 3 then 2 now 0. Did those that remained then withdrawn develop cracks recently or just sneak past the tests? Or am I completely wrong

I would assume that the cracks were within tolerance, just, but have worsened? All units are being inspected every 24 hours IIRC.

 

[ScouserGirl]

It started with only around 9 available then 5 then 3 then 2 now 0. Did those that remained then withdrawn develop cracks recently or just sneak past the tests? Or am I completely wrong

The two sets in service yesterday our out of service today because of a different issue unrelated to the cracks if that makes sense but I believe one is now back in service.

 

[rebmcr]

The two sets in service yesterday our out of service today because of a different issue unrelated to the cracks if that makes sense but I believe one is now back in service.

It seems likely that some of the sets pressed into service might have otherwise been spending this week on depot with minor issues, but were reprioritised compared to the main problem.