Avanti West Coast: Standard Premium

[Bletchleyite]

Well I booked First Class from Euston weeks ago. Hope my carriage booking is not now a then non- existent Standard Premium!

Post your train and coach letter and we can tell you! I'm sure if you have paid for actual First and it is now a SP coach if you Tweet Avanti they will give you a new reservation in "proper" 1st.

 

[Skie]

Though inclusive meals are a sort of tax workaround here - you can't claim, tax free, an evening meal unless getting home late or staying overnight (I forget the definition of "late").

Not been doing yourself out of anything have you? https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/employment-income-manual/eim30240
5 hours/10 hours/15 hours all have tax free subsistence rates.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Not been doing yourself out of anything have you? https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/employment-income-manual/eim30240
5 hours/10 hours/15 hours all have tax free subsistence rates.

Unless "journey time" doesn't take its Clapham Omnibus meaning (i.e. the time spent travelling), that's not going to apply at a meaningful level to the vast majority of UK business travel. £5 isn't meaningful; you can't even get a Big Mac meal for that now, so it's only the next step up that is significant, and most people are not going to day trip anything taking 5 hours each way.

I don't do a tax return, I just claim what my employer pays. Not worth it for the piddling amount I'd get extra.

 

[Skie]

Unless "journey time" doesn't take its Clapham Omnibus meaning (i.e. the time spent travelling), that's not going to apply at a meaningful level to the vast majority of UK business travel. £5 isn't meaningful; you can't even get a Big Mac meal for that now, so it's only the next step up that is significant, and most people are not going to day trip anything taking 5 hours each way.

I don't do a tax return, I just claim what my employer pays. Not worth it for the piddling amount I'd get extra.

Before the pandemic I was regularly doing Man-Eus and then on to wonderful Southerly grotspots, that's easy enough to hit the 10 hours mark for a day trip and overnight + another 12 hours for a 2 day trip. You can totally get a £5 meal, just don't buy anything in a station

We can't claim alcohol, but we can claim things that give you an alcoholic extra. 1st is fun when it's cheaper than standard (and nixes meal expenses), pie boards with tasting beers and the good old burger + pint combo in a pub are all taxman safe expenses. Or just a curry that leaves you with a thermal lance the next day....

 

[Bletchleyite]

Before the pandemic I was regularly doing Man-Eus and then on to wonderful Southerly grotspots, that's easy enough to hit the 10 hours mark for a day trip

So are you saying it doesn't mean what it says, i.e. it means 10 hours away from home, not 10 hours journey time like the actual text says?

Either way I am not getting into doing tax returns until I absolutely have to. I've avoided it my entire career so far.

 

[Skie]

So are you saying it doesn't mean what it says, i.e. it means 10 hours away from home, not 10 hours journey time like the actual text says?

Either way I am not getting into doing tax returns until I absolutely have to. I've avoided it my entire career so far.

Yes, it's journey time from when you leave the house to when you return. It includes visits to offices that aren't your 'home' office (wherever your contract says you are based).

Tax returns depends on how you are employed or re-imbursed, if you claim subsistence/re-imbursement through your employer and they handle the tax then they dont need to do anything for these payments - it's not taxable.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes, it's journey time from when you leave the house to when you return. It includes visits to offices that aren't your 'home' office (wherever your contract says you are based).

Thanks.

Tax returns depends on how you are employed or re-imbursed, if you claim subsistence/re-imbursement through your employer and they handle the tax then they dont need to do anything for these payments - it's not taxable.

No employer I've ever worked for will pay you just the tax deductible for expenses that aren't within their expense policy but are allowed expenses by HMRC. So if you want that (e.g. to claim for lunch and coffees if they don't pay that in their expenses policy) a tax return is the only way to get it.

 

[Royston Vasey]

Pie boards with tasting beers

I think we eat in the same Fuller's pubs in London whilst on business!

I am permitted one alcoholic beverage even with a lunch so this means I can have the equivalent of two pints of strong ale at lunchtime of a particularly boring conference, or when it's a half day meeting but I'm getting a train home just after lunchtime

 

[yorkie]

Can we stick to discussing Avanti West Coast: Standard Premium in this thread please

Please create a new thread in General Discussion if you wish to discuss meals elsewhere and/or tax implications, thanks.

 

[Tester]

1M17 1640 Glasgow to Euston today, between Crewe and Milton Keynes

J (First) - most bays occupied, busier than I have seen for a while
H (Standard Premium) - empty
G (Standard Premium) - empty

No mention of Standard Premium in announcements between Glasgow and Milton Keynes

 

[Butts]

I was on the 2043 from Euston to S&D last night in Coach J, we were the only people in there.

G&H Standard Premium were empty from what the TM was saying.

Certainly made the Stewards job a lot easier as they didn't have to go far with the freebies - a bit like when BA canned free refreshments in cattle.

Am I to take it that my £22 singles booked with a 2 Together Card prior to SP appearing will now be a thing of the past ?

Will there still be cheap 1st Class Advances ?

 

[voyagerdude220]

1M17 1640 Glasgow to Euston today, between Crewe and Milton Keynes

J (First) - most bays occupied, busier than I have seen for a while
H (Standard Premium) - empty
G (Standard Premium) - empty

No mention of Standard Premium in announcements between Glasgow and Milton Keynes

Is Standard Premium now consisting of 2 carriages on the (11?) Pendolinos?

I think it's a bit early introducing Standard Premium when the catering options in First Class haven't been "upgraded" yet.

 

[Tester]

Is Standard Premium now consisting of 2 carriages on the (11?) Pendolinos?

I think it's a bit early introducing Standard Premium when the catering options in First Class haven't been "upgraded" yet.

Yes

When first talked about, it was going to be H in 9s and G in 11s, but the actual implementation has been H in 9s and G & H in 11s

 

[station_road]

And it was mentioned in one of the links earlier in the thread that when they are refurbished, coach G on the 11s will be converted to ordinary standard

 

[Scotrail314209]

Standard Premium is a good idea, but ultimately when the passengers come back, will they take advantage of it?

Most seem to be content with sitting in Standard and not bothered about paying an upgrade.

I know I'll definitely take up SP when I next travel on Avanti, much comfier than Standard.

 

[Tester]

9G41 1920 Euston to Wolverhampton today, between Euston and Watford Junction

J (First) - most bays occupied
H (Standard Premium) - empty
G (Standard Premium) - empty

This time Standard Premium was announced in detail at Euston

 

[Ianno87]

Standard Premium is a good idea, but ultimately when the passengers come back, will they take advantage of it?

Most seem to be content with sitting in Standard and not bothered about paying an upgrade.

I know I'll definitely take up SP when I next travel on Avanti, much comfier than Standard.

9G41 1920 Euston to Wolverhampton today, between Euston and Watford Junction

J (First) - most bays occupied
H (Standard Premium) - empty
G (Standard Premium) - empty

This time Standard Premium was announced in detail at Euston

Why isn't Standard Premium simply offered as an "Upsell" when booking a ticket? I don't get why Avanti expect passengers largely travelling with an already reserved seat to randomly sit somewhere else and pay extra?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Why isn't Standard Premium simply offered as an "Upsell" when booking a ticket? I don't get why Avanti expect passengers largely travelling with an already reserved seat to randomly sit somewhere else and pay extra?

It is going to be but it isn't implemented yet. Maybe they should have held off for a bit until it was.

FWIW, an upgrade does have value e.g. if your employer won't pay for 1st but you want to self-upgrade. So that should be there too if it's not fully booked.

 

[philosopher]

Standard Premium is a good idea, but ultimately when the passengers come back, will they take advantage of it?

Most seem to be content with sitting in Standard and not bothered about paying an upgrade.

I know I'll definitely take up SP when I next travel on Avanti, much comfier than Standard.

At the moment, it is unlikely you will have someone sitting next to you in Standard, so passengers are in effect getting the benefit of extra space without having to pay a £15 to £30 upgrade fee. Maybe Avanti should have waited until social distancing limits had been removed before introducing it.

 

[Journeyman]

At the moment, it is unlikely you will have someone sitting next to you in Standard, so passengers are in effect getting the benefit of extra space without having to pay a £15 to £30 upgrade fee. Maybe Avanti should have waited until social distancing limits had been removed before introducing it.

Effectively right now you can upgrade to sit in a completely empty carriage! I'd pay good money for that.

 

[voyagerdude220]

Standard Premier class advance tickets have appeared on the ticket system, although they aren't being sold at the moment.

 

[Elecman]

Standard Premier class advance tickets have appeared on the ticket system, although they aren't being sold at the moment.

What the price Preston to Euston?

 

[_toommm_]

What the price Preston to Euston?

Ranging from £214.30 at its highest to £45.00 at its cheapest (with prices in between of course).

 

[Mogz]

So what we really have, in old money is this:

Standard = 2nd Class

Standard Premium = 1st Class

1st Class = Pullman Dining (or should be in normal times when the hot menu is restored).

 

[AlterEgo]

So what we really have, in old money is this:

Standard = 2nd Class

Standard Premium = 1st Class

1st Class = Pullman Dining (or should be in normal times when the hot menu is restored).

Avanti's food offering is quite a long way below Pullman standard.

 

[Journeyman]

Avanti's food offering is quite a long way below Pullman standard.

I guess it depends what their new offering is like. They're certainly hinting at it being better.

 

[Watershed]

Seems like they have basically used Covid as cover for abolishing complimentary food in 1st, whilst keeping the price roughly the same. And now expect people to pay a lot extra to get something comparable to 1st pre-pandemic.

Nice little money-spinner...

Me, a cynic? Never!

 

[jfollows]

Seems like they have basically used Covid as cover for abolishing complimentary food in 1st, whilst keeping the price roughly the same. And now expect people to pay a lot extra to get something comparable to 1st pre-pandemic.

Nice little money-spinner...

Me, a cynic? Never!

I don't think you're being cynical, I think you have accurately summarised what has been reported in this thread to date.

Currently it seems that First Class gets you 50% of the space you used to have, I usually used coaches G or H and preferred a table when travelling on my own, and 99% of the time I had the table to myself, and the 1% of the time I didn't it wasn't a problem.

Now First Class seems to want you to "cram" into fewer coaches and with no improvement over the adequate but not wonderful at-seat service.

I probably won't experience the service for myself for a few months yet, but I plan on buying myself a first class all line rover once I feel like travelling again and once I've passed my 60th. birthday (and bought a railcard) in October. If, at least, the on-board service in First Class is a step-change improvement then I might be satisfied, but I'm not sure it will be.

I don't see myself as a customer for Standard Premier/Premium. I tend to get myself more space when travelling Standard by using relatively quiet trains in the middle of the day, and that looks like a tactic which will continue to be a good one.

EDIT I just feel that First Class is no longer worth it on the WCML. It used to be a significant improvement over Standard Class, so that it was worth paying something extra for. I have used it many times, I was a user of First Class prior to the WCML upgrade between Manchester and London going back to the 1990s. But now it represents a minor upgrade over Standard Premium, which I can circumvent by buying my own food and drink prior to boarding, and Standard Premium itself is a minor upgrade over Standard. For some people, under some circumstances, the extra amounts will be worth the payments involved. I would pay more for better food service, something akin to the 1970s Manchester Pullman, so I will keep a watch on what happens with First Class in hope.

 

[Mag_seven]

Currently it seems that First Class gets you 50% of the space you used to have, I usually used coaches G or H and preferred a table when travelling on my own, and 99% of the time I had the table to myself, and the 1% of the time I didn't it wasn't a problem.

Now First Class seems to want you to "cram" into fewer coaches and with no improvement over the adequate but not wonderful at-seat service.

Exactly this -those travelling on a full first class ticket may find that table to themselves somewhat harder to come by now!

(appreciate that a table to yourself is not guaranteed in first, but a lot of people will pay the extra to increase their chances of getting one)

 

[Bletchleyite]

Standard Premium itself is a minor upgrade over Standard

Is it? From one of the most cramped Standard Classes on the railway to what is almost certainly the best First Class, in terms of the "hard product"? To me it's a huge upgrade.

I guess all the "haters" are short, skinny and don't like having a table or looking out of the window?

I don't give a monkey's about gimmicks, I just want a seat with a table, excellent legroom, width and a decent view out, ideally on the 1 side, and I want it at the right price and as a walk-up thing as well as advance booked (which they will be doing).

It's great. The only thing that would be better is getting rid of free gimmicks in 1st, reducing the First Anytime and First Off Peak fares to 1.5-1.6 times Standard and selling the food and drink at the buffet price to those who want them.