Worst Purchase/ Takeover/ Acquisition

[Snow1964]

Travel London (then owned by National Express) bought Tellings Golden Miller, and created Travel Surrey. Subsequently sold it with Travel London to Abellio (Dutch Railways). Abellio’s purchase of Travel Surrey has to be considered poor as it has all closed down.

But SW London and Surrey have other poor purchases, RATP group took over Epsom Coaches and Quality Line buses. Also closed with just a few routes absorbed into RATPs London United operation

Surrey also had Countryliner, which bought up various bus companies in the Surrey & East Sussex area, then collapsed about a decade ago.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I never really understood why West Yorkshire Road Car flogged Leeds and Bradford to YR. There were some busy routes. Maybe they wanted out of urban routes. Or to escape Metro interfering with their business.

In "Small is Beautiful The Story of the AJS Group and Blazefield Holdings" (Keith A Jenkinson Autobus Review Publications 1999 ISBN 0 907834 42 6), it is stated that the surprising sale of a major part of West Yorkshire Road Car to Rider Holdings for £3.5m followed the AJS Travel Group losing out to Stagecoach in a bid to gain control of Southdown. It could have been a result of of a consequential review of why they lost Southdown.

AJS Group had the view of splitting up West Yorkshire to maximise their returns and selling to Yorkshire Rider of the Leeds, Bradford and Otley depots had that very benefit whilst it obviously removed a major potential competitor for YR.

The subsequent decline of the former WY business in those areas can be attributed, in part, to First but more pertinently, the investment in the Airedale and Wharfedale rail lines. The growth on those lines in the early 2000s (after electrification and then the introduction of modern class 333s) was over three times the rate of growth on the rest of the WY rail network and some of that will have come from the buses.

 

[fgwrich]

Travel London (then owned by National Express) bought Tellings Golden Miller, and created Travel Surrey. Subsequently sold it with Travel London to Abellio (Dutch Railways). Abellio’s purchase of Travel Surrey has to be considered poor as it has all closed down.

But SW London and Surrey have other poor purchases, RATP group took over Epsom Coaches and Quality Line buses. Also closed with just a few routes absorbed into RATPs London United operation

Surrey also had Countryliner, which bought up various bus companies in the Surrey & East Sussex area, then collapsed about a decade ago.

Unfortunately I don't think you're quite right on the Travel London > TGM purchase. TGM seems to have had more association with Arriva, with, a according to Wikipedia anyway, TGM Selling it's South West London and Surrey business to NX's Travel London who went on to create Travel Surrey.

TGM however has a somewhat 'interesting' history of its own, just to complicate matters in the Surrey bus world, that's for sure.

Tellings-Golden Miller - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Ken H]

I don’t think First West Yorkshire is anywhere near comparable with some of the examples in this thread. I think it’s fairly odd that they’ve been mentioned. Yes they don’t have the newest buses in all areas, but who does, and they’ve given up marginal work, but who hasn’t. They still dominate all the towns they operate in.

Sorry. It's my old stamping ground. I compare first Bradford with Bradford city Transport and the difference is stark. Leeds has fared much better.
Bradford 1968 timetable is on Timetable world.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Sorry. It's my old stamping ground. I compare first Bradford with Bradford city Transport and the difference is stark. Leeds has fared much better.
Bradford 1968 timetable is on Timetable world.

I think you could simply compare Bradford with Leeds per se. Leeds feels like a much more balanced and affluent city (albeit with pockets of deprivation) whilst Bradford doesn't. Certainly, the unemployment rate is higher in Bradford. Just feels there's more vibrancy and more passengers!

Nonetheless, First Bradford (and the other depots) are undoubtedly underinvested in when you compare with Leeds as First look to meet their commitments as per the 284 new buses that they promised.

 

[tbtc]

Maybe that could be backtracked to Yorkshire Rider acquiring as much of West Yorkshire Road Car as it did. If the Otley/Ilkley services had stayed with what today is Transdev Blazefield things might have been different with 36 like vehicles employed on Bradford services in direct competition with the train rather than waving the white flag.

I don't know how the boundaries used to be but certainly the Transdev/Blazefield bus service from Harrogate to Leeds is significantly better than the First bus service from Otley to Leeds (despite Harrogate having a train)

Abellio’s purchase of Travel Surrey has to be considered poor as it has all closed down

That's given me an idea for a new thread >> https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...ithout-selling-on-to-another-operator.222537/

I think you could simply compare Bradford with Leeds per se. Leeds feels like a much more balanced and affluent city (albeit with pockets of deprivation) whilst Bradford doesn't. Certainly, the unemployment rate is higher in Bradford. Just feels there's more vibrancy and more passengers!

Nonetheless, First Bradford (and the other depots) are undoubtedly underinvested in when you compare with Leeds as First look to meet their commitments as per the 284 new buses that they promised.

Things were different twenty years ago when Bradford was the poster-child for First, getting a huge amount of investment with the Overground (and I was commuting on twenty year old buses in Leeds at the time) - whereas Huddersfield/ Halifax have never had the same levels of investment

Sometimes at a "smaller" depot, First give it a bit of "feast and famine", a big influx of vehicles then relying on cascades for the next five years or longer though (Stagecoach seem to be better at spreading the new stuff around)

That said, there's maybe an argument that Bradford should be better bus territory than Leeds on some metrics - e.g. Leeds has decent suburban train services on some corridors, whereas Bradford only really has the Shipley corridor for rail competition - Leeds has seen a lot of people moving to city centre flats and therefore no longer needing buses from suburbia, Leeds has also got its retail offering spread a bit thinner with White Rose etc whilst Bradford's shops are mainly in one place which makes it easier to serve with buses - obviously Leeds is still good bus territory and Bradford has struggled economically - but there's still a lot of people living in the estates around Bradford who need a bus into the city centre - Bradford is West Yorkshire's Doncaster!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Bradford has struggled economically - but there's still a lot of people living in the estates around Bradford who need a bus into the city centre - Bradford is West Yorkshire's Doncaster!

Similar problems there - bus fares go up to offset insufficient remuneration for passes and that stops fare payers in those areas that are much more price sensitive. However, we're going seriously off topic

I don't know how the boundaries used to be but certainly the Transdev/Blazefield bus service from Harrogate to Leeds is significantly better than the First bus service from Otley to Leeds (despite Harrogate having a train)

There are some significant differences. Harrogate's population is over 5 times that of Otley, so the 15 min frequency on the X84 is not bad compared to the 36. The 36 is also able to compete effectively as the train may nominally be quicker by 15 mins end to end, but when you factor in the ability to serve Pannal, and the sub optimal location of Leeds station, that's why it has a good service.

 

[KGGXXXY]

McGill's Buses Takeover of McColl's Coaches commercial routes, Dumbarton depot, buses (not the newest fleet) and staff in 2012. Then in less than a year close the depot down axe most of the routes (bar 3 SPT funded), I think is another good recent-ish example for this thread. Glad to see McGills Bounce back and expand since then though (Xplore Dundee).

 

[Simon75]

Arriva bought Starline Travel in Knutsford and Wythenshawe. They closed Knutsford depot, then withdrew completely from Knutsford.
Also Arriva took over Nova Scotia in Winsford, and basically withdrew competition by closing it down not long after.

 

[SCH117X]

There are some significant differences. Harrogate's population is over 5 times that of Otley, so the 15 min frequency on the X84 is not bad compared to the 36. The 36 is also able to compete effectively as the train may nominally be quicker by 15 mins end to end, but when you factor in the ability to serve Pannal, and the sub optimal location of Leeds station, that's why it has a good service.

The 36 is better for parts of Harrogate than the train. The train station at Pannal is however better located for the main part of the village; better the A61 which the 36 follows. The X84 ought to benefit from the south of centrally located train station, like the 36.

2nd attempt at this: Blazefield's takeover of United's Ripon depot in the mid 1990s lead to the announcement that the Ripon-York service would be improved, only for them to completely withdraw the service. North Yorkshire County Council subsequently funded the service with a variety of operators until plans were drawn up to convert it and other services to minibus operation. A terminus at a York park and ride site resulted instead, with Transdev Blazefield taking the service on, presumably with some funding from the County equivalent to what would have been spent on the minibuses.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The 36 also for parts of Harrogate better than the train - the train station at Pannal is however better located for the main part of the village better the A61 which the 36 follows. The X84 ought to benefit like the 36 from the south of centre located train station.

2nd attempt at this: Blazefields takeover of Uniteds Ripon depot in the mid 1990s lead to announcement that the Ripon-York service would be improved only to completely withdraw the service. North Yorkshire County Council subsequently funded the service with a variety of operators until plans were drawn up to convert it and other services to minibus operation and a terminus at a York park and ride site which resulted instead with Transdev Blazefield taking the service on, presumably with some funding from the County equiavalent to wha would have been spent on the miniibuses

You're quite right - I was being lazy in meaning the Pannal side of town (Leeds Road). The X84 could indeed be better in terms of a product but when folk are comparing headways, the relative sizes of Harrogate and Otley need to be appreciated even if the former has a train line!

I remember chatting to the then North East Bus MD Mike Widmer when they sold Ripon depot's operations. The purchase by Blazefield was only ever to get the one board of the 36 and so be in charge of their destiny on that route. They weren't interested in the other operations that were largely tendered anyway and necessitated double deckers (to accommodate schools) but of a strict age limit; hence why of United's 15 newest deckers, 6 spent most of their time trundling around North Yorkshire carrying 5 pensioners. The only other half decent route was to Northallerton via Thirsk and United retained that accordingly.

So no shock that Blazefield closed the rest down, and they didn't purchase the bus station site nor the depot; those were retained by Westcourt Properties.

 

[RustySpoons]

What about the operators that were taken over by Island Fortitude? My memory is hazy, but they were somehow linked to King Long (or a subsidiary) and were an attempt to get their vehicles into the UK market? Took over quite a few smaller operators and quickly ran them into the ground.

Just found this...

Revealed: Criminal pasts of businessmen linked to collapsed bus firm's buyout

...Kinglong Direct is owned by Island Fortitude Incorporated (IFD), a Caribbean offshore investment fund which has purchased a string of bus companies in England in recent years, tying them into contracts which require them to buy Kinglong coaches...

 

[Ken H]

You're quite right - I was being lazy in meaning the Pannal side of town (Leeds Road). The X84 could indeed be better in terms of a product but when folk are comparing headways, the relative sizes of Harrogate and Otley need to be appreciated even if the former has a train line!

I remember chatting to the then North East Bus MD Mike Widmer when they sold Ripon depot's operations. The purchase by Blazefield was only ever to get the one board of the 36 and so be in charge of their destiny on that route. They weren't interested in the other operations that were largely tendered anyway and necessitated double deckers (to accommodate schools) but of a strict age limit; hence why of United's 15 newest deckers, 6 spent most of their time trundling around North Yorkshire carrying 5 pensioners. The only other half decent route was to Northallerton via Thirsk and United retained that accordingly.

So no shock that Blazefield closed the rest down, and they didn't purchase the bus station site nor the depot; those were retained by Westcourt Properties.

Where did Dales and District spring up from? I know they were a coach company. They seem to have cornered the market in that corner of N Yorkshire but they are picky. So North Yorkshire County Council (NYCC) buses are active in Ripon and Thirsk, and Little White Bus for Leyburn - Hawes and Richmond - Keld.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Where did Dales and District spring up from. I know they were a coach company

They carved themselves a good little business out of the tendered and low-margin stuff left behind by Arriva's retrenchment.

So when North Yorkshire County Council (NYCC) cut reimbursement rates and pulled tenders, they had to pull back.

The only truly profitable route in that area is Darlington-Richmond-Catterick, which is why Arriva kept it.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

What about the operators that were taken over by Island Fortitude? My memory is hazy, but they were somehow linked to King Long (or a subsidiary) and were an attempt to get their vehicles into the UK market? Took over quite a few smaller operators and quickly ran them into the ground.

Just found this...

Revealed: Criminal pasts of businessmen linked to collapsed bus firm's buyout

Sadly, that spelt the end for some long established firms such as Eddie Brown Coaches of Helperby who, coincidentally, had been one of the operators of the Ripon to York service mentioned elsewhere in that thread.

Where did Dales and District spring up from? I know they were a coach company. They seem to have cornered the market in that corner of N Yorkshire but they are picky. So North Yorkshire County Council (NYCC) buses are active in Ripon and Thirsk, and Little White Bus for Leyburn - Hawes and Richmond - Keld.

Dales and District are the bus operating arm of Proctors Coaches of Leeming Bar. They initially began competing on the 73 Northallerton to Bedale before benefitting from North Yorkshire CC splashing the cash on Rural Bus Challenge routes, initially taking the Wensleydale services when they were taken from Arriva and massively uplifted so there were hourly services from Northallerton to Hawes. They also gained stuff like the Richmond - Leyburn - Ripon that also replaced much more infrequent links, as well as gaining the tenders around Northalleton such as to Richmond, Leeming and the town routes.

A major expansion came when Arriva closed their Richmond depot in March 2006. As has been mentioned, Arriva retained only the main X26/X27/X28 route, with everything else that was tendered passing to D&D such as to Barnard Castle, Keld, town services, and two supplementary routes to Darlington, and also taking the Darlington to Northallerton and the Northallerton to Ripon routes, the latter commercially.

Fast forward and a combination of swingeing council cuts saw community minibuses and council welfare vehicles pick up certain routes, especially Northallerton and Richmond town routes, and those up the Dales, operating at lower costs either as just off-peak services between council welfare schools transport or crewed by volunteers.

Of the others, they have gone through a cycle of different operators (incl Arriva winning some back for a period) but in 2019, Hodgsons of Barnard Castle picked up most of the Richmond area tenders. They're left with just their core Bedale route, Northallerton to Ripon, Ripon to Richmond, and a few market day services operated by a single vehicle.

 

[SCH117X]

I remember chatting to the then North East Bus MD Mike Widmer when they sold Ripon depot's operations. The purchase by Blazefield was only ever to get the one board of the 36 and so be in charge of their destiny on that route.

In 'Small is Beautiful' (book detailed in an earlier posting) it is commented that had taken more than five years to complete due to Uniteds ownership changing three times and concluded plans drawn up by the National Bus Company 21 years earlier. The Ripon dept closed on 16 Feb 1997 but at that time the only casulty was the X36 Ripon-Harrogate service which ran along the A61 Ripley bypass and into Harrogate on the Ripon Road (as 36s do today but back then they did a loop via the Skipton Road). The ex United services were then worked out of the Manse Lane Knaresborough depot that Blazefield then had with a lot of dead mileage, which no doubt countered against at retendering. It was Procters (pre Dales & District) that took the Ripon-York on before Blazefield won it back; Harrogate Coach Travel and Arriva both later worked it. Read elsewhere that the majority of complaints Blazefield received concerning the 36 were to do with the United operated workings.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

In 'Small is Beautiful' (book detailed in an earlier posting) it is commented that had taken more than five years to complete due to Uniteds ownership changing three times and concluded plans drawn up by the National Bus Company 21 years earlier. The Ripon dept closed on 16 Feb 1997 but at that time the only casulty was the X36 Ripon-Harrogate service which ran along the A61 Ripley bypass and into Harrogate on the Ripon Road (as 36s do today but back then they did a loop via the Skipton Road). The ex United services were then worked out of the Manse Lane Knaresborough depot that Blazefield then had with a lot of dead mileage, which no doubt countered against at retendering. It was Procters (pre Dales & District) that took the Ripon-York on before Blazefield won it back; Harrogate Coach Travel and Arriva both later worked it. Read elsewhere that the majority of complaints Blazefield received concerning the 36 were to do with the United operated workings.

The purchase was all to do with the 36, for the reasons you mention and that I've alluded to - not least that United were running one board from the end of the route using stuff like 10 year old ex West Riding Tigers. Meanwhile, Blazefield were able to manage reliability at the centre of the route AND had replaced their five year old Lynxes with new B10Bs a couple of years beforehand.

They didn't want the rest of the Ripon operations and you can understand why, and probably explains why they didn't seek to even open a Ripon outstation but ran them from Manse Lane. Shame as it was one of my favourite United outposts and in the absence of a multi-operator ticket, it wasn't the easiest to have a day out for a while when a raft of different operators had the remaining tendered services.

 

[David Verity]

Of more recent times (and I apologize if it's already been picked up on) I'd rate the First acquisition of Finglands as a howler - and it happened on Giles Fearnley's watch. If the plan was to give Stagecoach a bloody nose by moving in on their South Manchester patch it misfired badly - Stagecoach bit back and also increased their activity in North Manchester (First's home turf) with Blue Bus operation in Middleton.