ScotRail Industrial Relations issues (including conductor strike action)

[PaulMc7]

Glasgow is literally sliced in half by motorway, and the city is surrounded by other major roads including the M77, M80 and M74. Enormous chunks of land in Glasgow, which should be for people and the buildings we use, is set aside for cars.

Yes absolutely. The council and Scottish government have never done enough to get people out of cars in Glasgow especially. The trains and buses will always struggle against that. Covid has just highlighted the issue even more and then the strikes have topped it off.

 

[6Z09]

Glasgow is literally sliced in half by motorway, and the city is surrounded by other major roads including the M77, M80 and M74. Enormous chunks of land in Glasgow, which should be for people and the buildings we use, is set aside for cars.

Given the road closures for COP26, anyone driving into Glasgow is in for a tortuous couple of weeks!

 

[Christmas]

Glasgow is literally sliced in half by motorway, and the city is surrounded by other major roads including the M77, M80 and M74. Enormous chunks of land in Glasgow, which should be for people and the buildings we use, is set aside for cars.

I'd argue that the Clyde is the biggest impediment to the railway. Perhaps time the Subway was looked at seriously rather than Glasgow Airport links and other white elephants.

However, Transport Scotland now know the position of the RMT. We'll see how it reacts now. There will either be a humiliating climbdown between now and the weekend (on either side) or turmoil next week.

 

[PaulMc7]

Given the road closures for COP26, anyone driving into Glasgow is in for a tortuous couple of weeks!

They'll probably not experience much more congestion than normal, it's just been moved. The buses surprisingly haven't been as bad as I thought they'd be. Even at peaks it's only added 15-20 mins so far. I'd imagine some days will be worse than others but for the start that's not too bad. I'd imagine it might actually get better too given that people seem to be getting allowed to work from home.

 

[Christmas]

They'll probably not experience much more congestion than normal, it's just been moved. The buses surprisingly haven't been as bad as I thought they'd be. Even at peaks it's only added 15-20 mins so far. I'd imagine some days will be worse than others but for the start that's not too bad. I'd imagine it might actually get better too given that people seem to be getting allowed to work from home.

This week just the dry run. The only people on the dedicated electric bus service are the support staff. Without a train service next week Glasgow will grind to a halt. Three cheers for TRANSPORT SCOTLAND! Seriously Not Plausible

 

[PaulMc7]

This week just the dry run. The only people on the dedicated electric bus service are the support staff. Without a train service next week Glasgow will grind to a halt. Three cheers for TRANSPORT SCOTLAND! Seriously Not Plausible

Transport Scotland could have came to the table earlier but let's be real the outcome wouldn't be different. The lack of money around due to Covid probably won't change til 2023/2024 only if we handle Covid well all of a sudden and get a clearer picture on passenger levels

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

So TS have a COP26 transport plan which is promoting all public transport and providing a free smart travelcard to attendees

All COP26 registered attendees and volunteers assisting with the delivery of the event will be provided with a free travel smartcard. The smartcard will provide holders with free use of public transport from their accommodation to the venue for the duration of the conference. The bespoke COP26 branded card will allow all registered attendees to choose their mode of Public Transport and not be limited to only one option i.e. bus or rail.

along with a dedicated webpage

getreadyglasgow

which isn't mentioning strike action!!

Given attendees are arriving from this week its going to embarrassing for the organisers if the strike goes ahead although not a disaster.

Question is have the organisers been working on a plan B to manage travel.

 

[Christmas]

Transport Scotland could have came to the table earlier but let's be real the outcome wouldn't be different. The lack of money around due to Covid probably won't change til 2023/2024 only if we handle Covid well all of a sudden and get a clearer picture on passenger levels

It's nothing to do with Abellio The talks have been between the respective unions and Transport Scotland. It has been Transport Scotland all along. Abellio simply carry out the day to day management at the moment.

 

[PaulMc7]

I'm not going to repeat this again. It's NOTHING TO DO WITH ABELLIO. The talks have been between the respective unions and Transport Scotland.it has been Transport Scotland all along. Abellio simply carry out the day to day management at the moment.

Well considering I didn't mention them.....

 

[Christmas]

Well considering I didn't mention them.....

So who else did you expect to 'come to the table'?

 

[Chew Chew]

So who else did you expect to 'come to the table'?

Transport Scotland, presumably.

 

[PaulMc7]

So who else did you expect to 'come to the table'?

Transport Scotland as I literally mentioned?

 

[Bill57p9]

Surely it should be the members that decide that though? Members at least deserve to see every offer given that it's them it affects.

Often employer/union negotiations take place with an element of confidentiality, and there is no firm offer from either party until agreement is reached, though obviously both parties should negotiate in good faith, exploring what each others objectives and scope for compromise are.
Naturally information leaks out, either incidentally or through deliberate briefing. But there will usually be a subtle nuance missing from such leaks.
So there may well be good reasons not to publish the full detail.

Union reps are elected to represent the members in such difficult circumstances. Every member has a vote and can look for a change or even stand themselves if they are unsatisfied with their representatives.

That said, my personal view is that the relationship between ScotRail and RMT appears to have degraded so much that some transparency and determination to reach a conclusion by both parties is urgently needed.

 

[PaulMc7]

Often employer/union negotiations take place with an element of confidentiality, and there is no firm offer from either party until agreement is reached, though obviously both parties should negotiate in good faith, exploring what each others objectives and scope for compromise are.
Naturally information leaks out, either incidentally or through deliberate briefing. But there will usually be a subtle nuance missing from such leaks.
So there may well be good reasons not to publish the full detail.

Union reps are elected to represent the members in such difficult circumstances. Every member has a vote and can look for a change or even stand themselves if they are unsatisfied with their representatives.

That said, my personal view is that the relationship between ScotRail and RMT appears to have degraded so much that some transparency and determination to reach a conclusion by both parties is urgently needed.

At this point, both parties seem so stubborn I'd be surprised if anything will be agreed by 5pm on Wednesday. Good luck to those who rely on trains on finding an alternative.

 

[Bald Rick]

My personal view is that negotiations between company and union reps should be recorded (video) and available for broadcast shortly afterwards, if not live.

Then the people being represented could form their own view of the proposals, and of both their representatives and managers.

 

[PaulMc7]

My personal view is that negotiations between company and union reps should be recorded (video) and available for broadcast shortly afterwards, if not live.

Then the people being represented could form their own view of the proposals, and of both their representatives and managers.

This would certainly be the right call but I can see why it would never really happen. Both Transport Scotland and RMT could potentially have looked awful from negotiations to be fair.

On one hand you have Transport Scotland who effectively ignored the demands for 6 months and on the other the RMT used the same fairly weak strike tactic week after week to provoke response and just didn't get it for the 6 months.

We also have service cuts coming in May once Transport Scotland take the reigns in March. I think that probably has its part in this too.

 

[68000]

I'd argue that the Clyde is the biggest impediment to the railway. Perhaps time the Subway was looked at seriously rather than Glasgow Airport links and other white elephants.

However, Transport Scotland now know the position of the RMT. We'll see how it reacts now. There will either be a humiliating climbdown between now and the weekend (on either side) or turmoil next week.

The Clyde is a natural geographic feature, the motorways are not

 

[alf]

My personal view is that negotiations between company and union reps should be recorded (video) and available for broadcast shortly afterwards, if not live.

Then the people being represented could form their own view of the proposals, and of both their representatives and managers.

With respect ..daft idea.
Both sides would play to the crowd & not dare test out solutions.
I know why nobody reputable on the TU or industry side has ever proposed this....it is because it won’t work.

 

[GLC]

Yesterday, Scotrail tweeted they were organising contingency plans in case the strikes went ahead. Today, Scotrail have tweeted:

STRIKE UPDATE: We have contingency plans in place should the proposed strikes go ahead. Should the proposed action be confirmed, we will publish these ASAP.

I’m assuming the confirmation will be if no deal is reached by 5pm on Wednesday?

 

[LoogaBarooga]

Dearie me. What an absolute mess this is.

 

[ainsworth74]

With respect ..daft idea.
Both sides would play to the crowd & not dare test out solutions.
I know why nobody reputable on the TU or industry side has ever proposed this....it is because it won’t work.

I prefer my solution. Take both sets of negotiators, put them in a room with a jug of water, glasses, some pastries, a pad of paper and some pens then lock the door and no-one is allowed out until there is a written agreement signed by representatives of both sides agreed

 

[alangla]

Yesterday, Scotrail tweeted they were organising contingency plans in case the strikes went ahead. Today, Scotrail have tweeted:

I’m assuming the confirmation will be if no deal is reached by 5pm on Wednesday?

Looks like they're being optimistic at the moment - if you look on RTT, there's some VARs and STPs in for next week, mainly late night, e.g. the last Helensburgh - Airdrie going to Bathgate, the late Edinburgh to Garscadden etc going to Helensburgh and some late 2Zs on the Argyle line, one of which is bizarrely fast from Cambuslang to Motherwell via the Hamilton Circle.

There are also some extra XC services from Glasgow Central to Edinburgh - whether this was planned or contingency, I've no idea. Class 230 demo runs also appear if you look at Glasgow Central.

EDIT - seems the Scottish Government are rather less optimistic - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-59042772

Scotland's transport minister has said he is "not optimistic" a rail strike during COP26 will be avoided.
Graeme Dey accused the RMT union of moving the goalposts during negotiations aimed at avoiding industrial action by ScotRail staff.
He said contingency plans were being made to keep the trains running but warned of extensive disruption.

 

[PaulMc7]

Looks like they're being optimistic at the moment - if you look on RTT, there's some VARs and STPs in for next week, mainly late night, e.g. the last Helensburgh - Airdrie going to Bathgate, the late Edinburgh to Garscadden etc going to Helensburgh and some late 2Zs on the Argyle line, one of which is bizarrely fast from Cambuslang to Motherwell via the Hamilton Circle.

There are also some extra XC services from Glasgow Central to Edinburgh - whether this was planned or contingency, I've no idea. Class 230 demo runs also appear if you look at Glasgow Central.

EDIT - seems the Scottish Government are rather less optimistic - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-59042772

I'm in the Scottish government mindset with this to be honest. I highly doubt anything changes before that deadline tomorrow.

 

[LoogaBarooga]

Radio Scotland there saying the RMT want a 1 year 4.9% rise with all mitigations taken out.

 

[PaulMc7]

Radio Scotland there saying the RMT want a 1 year 4.9% rise with all mitigations taken out.

At least we finally know what they want I guess. I don't see them getting it though.

 

[GLC]

Radio Scotland there saying the RMT want a 1 year 4.9% rise with all mitigations taken out.

The deal TSSA, ASLEF and Unite have accepted is 4.7% over two years, (2.5, followed by 2.2) in comparison(which is what has also been offered to RMT). Surely even if Scotrail accepted this, the other unions would get the hump about this?

 

[68000]

I would imagine ScotRail will attempt to have DOO services running on the Argyle line for Exhibition Centre and the Edinburgh to Glasgow via Airdrie

 

[LoogaBarooga]

The deal TSSA, ASLEF and Unite have accepted is 4.7% over two years, (2.5, followed by 2.2) in comparison(which is what has also been offered to RMT). Surely even if Scotrail accepted this, the other unions would get the hump about this?

The ASLEF deal is only for 6 months but yeah I imagine the other unions would be looking for the same percentage.

 

[alangla]

I prefer my solution. Take both sets of negotiators, put them in a room with a jug of water, glasses, some pastries, a pad of paper and some pens then lock the door and no-one is allowed out until there is a written agreement signed by representatives of both sides agreed

Thinking more about this, has there been any suggestion of binding arbitration/Acas being used to try to break the deadlock on this (these) disputes?

 

[Idkwhatmyusern]

Just out of curiosity, what does RDW stand for, what is it and why is it so important